OT: 6th grader brings gun to school

[EKmane]

Fonk, huh? I've seen a bit.


I've never been in a position where I was able to clap back at an attacker because I haven't kept a weapon on me in public in.... 6 years or so, but shit has hit the fan for me on numerous occasions. I've been jumped twice 4-on-1 (white boy in "wrong" neighborhood, and for disrespecting the hood on the day of a funeral cause of being a white boy walking my buddy's black GF back home), I've had a crackfiend try to stab me where I grabbed the blade to protect myself as he was lunging at me and fucked my hand up pretty good, and I've been shot at twice (right after the 2012 Giants WS celebration as I was outside Old Navy heading for the Powell BART, and 2008 North Oakland in a case - I think - of mistaken identity). Sure, every time my life was in danger a loaded gun could have helped, but as you inferred in your post, situations get fonky in a split second, and except for 1 of the times I was jumped, none of the situations would have allowed for me to even pull a gun out without someone being able to take it from me or aim right and kill me first.

As for being at home, no one has ever broken in my house when I've been home, so I've never had to fend off a B&E attempt, but when I mentioned keeping a gun unloaded in my last post, I was talking about a gun that is solely kept at home. If I had a Conceal Carry permit I would rock that shit and keep a loaded gun on my person, but I'm a felon, so me + a gun in public = cops get pissed off.

My guns are for hunting, and I have a pistol my dad holds onto, so its kind of hard to have those on my person. As for when kids are in the mix, IMO guns should be in a gun safe. That's how my pops always did it, and he never told me the combo to his safe. Too bad, too, cause he has some SICK guns.

Yeah, fonk!

I can dig what you talkin about on that felon shit, I caught one of those ex felon in possession of a firearms, only a 1-3 though, except it was on top of trafficking charges. Glad to be pretty much done wit that.

Sounds like you been in some sticky situations, I commend you for staying away from thang thangs, because it only took me getting jumped once before I refused to let anything like that happen to me again.

 

[EKmane]

China School Attack: Video Footage Of Knife Stabbing Released By Government

The same day as the shooting rampage. This guy used a knife to attack 22 school children. I guess strange is strange, no gun is no prob for them.

This was right before the U.S. attack.

 

[NinerSickness]

The big one for me is "Give teachers guns." My wife is becoming a teacher next month. Her reaction was less than...


...EXCEPTING of this idea.

Teachers? No. They're a bunch of pussies. I'd be for giving 'em pepper spray, but that's about it.

I'd be all for them contracting out armed security guards, but they'll never do that because people who run schools are some of the dumbest people on planet earth. They refuse to even contract out the landscapers, but they're always bitching for more money "for the kids."

By the way, assault rifles have far less potential for murder than hand guns do. Assault rifles are huge. You'll see the guy coming a mile away. The assault rifle thing is a red herring.

 

[EKmane]

There's also the safety...

And not telling your children where you keep your gun. It's just extremely quixotic and naive to think one can prevent tragic gun incidents with regulation. I don't own a gun, but I sure as hell would if I had a family to protect. My relatives did it right; they keep their gun in a secret compartment you'd never know was there. The only reason I know its location is because there was a time I might've had to use it if this lunitic came around the house. Thank God I didn't have too.

Like I said, just make murder illegal and that'll solve the problem.

Depends on how old the child is.

 

[NinerSickness]

Depends on how old the child is.

True. And how responsible they are. If they're 30-year-old morons, don't tell 'em where the guns are.

 

[EKmane]

Fonk, huh? I've seen a bit.


I've never been in a position where I was able to clap back at an attacker because I haven't kept a weapon on me in public in.... 6 years or so, but shit has hit the fan for me on numerous occasions. I've been jumped twice 4-on-1 (white boy in "wrong" neighborhood, and for disrespecting the hood on the day of a funeral cause of being a white boy walking my buddy's black GF back home), I've had a crackfiend try to stab me where I grabbed the blade to protect myself as he was lunging at me and fucked my hand up pretty good, and I've been shot at twice (right after the 2012 Giants WS celebration as I was outside Old Navy heading for the Powell BART, and 2008 North Oakland in a case - I think - of mistaken identity). Sure, every time my life was in danger a loaded gun could have helped, but as you inferred in your post, situations get fonky in a split second, and except for 1 of the times I was jumped, none of the situations would have allowed for me to even pull a gun out without someone being able to take it from me or aim right and kill me first.

As for being at home, no one has ever broken in my house when I've been home, so I've never had to fend off a B&E attempt, but when I mentioned keeping a gun unloaded in my last post, I was talking about a gun that is solely kept at home. If I had a Conceal Carry permit I would rock that shit and keep a loaded gun on my person, but I'm a felon, so me + a gun in public = cops get pissed off.

My guns are for hunting, and I have a pistol my dad holds onto, so its kind of hard to have those on my person. As for when kids are in the mix, IMO guns should be in a gun safe. That's how my pops always did it, and he never told me the combo to his safe. Too bad, too, cause he has some SICK guns.

I just finished reading your post and came across this part. I think educating your kids (as long as they're old enough) is the way to go. Teach them how to shoot, teach them how to handle, be firm about why it's not ok to play a game with guns.

If a gun is kept at home it might have to be used one day, make sure they know its not a toy, that its for protection.

Not saying your Pops was wrong though, just sharing my beliefs.

 

[MHSL82]

I don't own a gun and I remember thinking that if I ever did, I'd have it locked in a safe - but then I thought, the only reason I'd have a gun would be for protection and I don't think I could go to the safe, take it out, load it in time before the intruder came in. Or an unloaded one would be unprepared for an actual need. Same with if I were walking somewhere at night. I felt that I'm either extremely vulnerable all the time or I'd always have a gun on me (if legal). But that's unsafe because I have a daughter who could find it if not locked up (too young to teach other than not to touch it - which would last until her memory or curiosity took over).

What do you gun owners do and how do you reconcile that the very reason you have a gun is less likely to be able to be used in case of an emergency due to time or location restraints. It seems having it in a safe would only allow for misuse (access for bad things, not protection), not protection. Not having it in a safe would lead to accidents. I suppose some people still sleep with it in their bed or dresser, but again, that seems dangerous, too.

 

[EKmane]

I don't own a gun and I remember thinking that if I ever did, I'd have it locked in a safe - but then I thought, the only reason I'd have a gun would be for protection and I don't think I could go to the safe, take it out, load it in time before the intruder came in. Or an unloaded one would be unprepared for an actual need. Same with if I were walking somewhere at night. I felt that I'm either extremely vulnerable all the time or I'd always have a gun on me (if legal). But that's unsafe because I have a daughter who could find it if not locked up (too young to teach other than not to touch it - which would last until her memory or curiosity took over).

What do you gun owners do and how do you reconcile that the very reason you have a gun is less likely to be able to be used in case of an emergency due to time or location restraints. It seems having it in a safe would only allow for misuse (access for bad things, not protection), not protection. Not having it in a safe would lead to accidents. I suppose some people still sleep with it in their bed or dresser, but again, that seems dangerous, too.

First of all, the saying goes, and I quote, "if your scared go to church".

I've been around guns for ever, some families kept them locked up and some (as well as mine) didn't. As I've got older and had my own kids and guns I can honestly say that thinking back, the only problems I've seen with kids sneaking them is with the families that tried to hide them. If the kid is old enough to handle one I believe in educating them, it takes away the mystic, as well as preparing them in case of that one time. It can give them a sense of responsibility, some maturity.

If a person feels the older kid is an idiot, then they should become better parents.

The accidents happen from dumb shit like leaving them laying around where your 6 year old can and would reach it.

 

[EKmane]

The big one for me is "Give teachers guns." My wife is becoming a teacher next month. Her reaction was less than...


...EXCEPTING of this idea.

How do you arm a teacher and not arm her/his students? Where do you keep this gun? In a safe? How does that help in a murder rampage?

They would keep them on their hip, just like police.

Thinking about it, that might even give them more of an authoritative appeal at the same time. Bad joke, my apologies.

 

[MHSL82]

I don't have kids... Yet. (may 21st that changes)

Congrats, having a baby is great. My brother in law's wife is due a few days after yours. Boy or girl, don't know, or don't want to know?

 

[MHSL82]

Gun control, strictly enforced, works.

This reminds me of when people say "Abstinence doesn't work." Come on, abstinence is the only thing that does work that reliably. If you are abstinent, you won't have a baby. It's just the wording. "Teaching only abstinence does not work" because kids won't do that.

 

[MHSL82]

It doesn't debunk shit. You said gun laws will stop it. Well germany hasn't stopped it with theirs. Criminals don't follow laws. Your argument is so flawed it is rediculius. Go to any city and you can buy illegal weapons. Guns already illegal to have, and you can get them. Why? Because they are criminals. Your new laws won't stop shit.

Not a big proponent of either gun control nor gun rights, but I can't see how these things are mutually exclusive. Controlling who can have it by a set of laws, aggressive enforcement, gun education, identifying the nuts, etc. can all be worked on at the same time. These things are hard to do and there's no foolproof solution, but they are not contradictory.

Gun control won't stop all crime or all gun-related crime, but if it saved one life by preventing one criminal from getting one, it would mean the world to that family (though they won't know what they are saved from). Then, people can concurrently work on the nuts, the gun culture, etc. to help attempt to stop shit. There's no solution that will stop all gun crimes, but certain gun control measures could help.

Having said that, I don't know where the line is in determining who can have one and who cannot. Surely, people with no record shoot people up some times. There's a first for everything. There are also those who are either guilty and reformed or not guilty but plead guilty to something that someone might define as disqualifying in getting a gun, when they are fit for one. So anything beyond the extremes (no one can or all can), is difficult to find the qualifications. But it doesn't mean that people should remove gun control or ban all guns.

I worked in the prosecutor's office and police found unregistered weapons often, so yes, criminals will get their hands on them - but it seems a bit of a self-defining matter where some people who would have been criminals don't get guns and therefore are not criminals and those who are criminals and get guns are criminals so therefore, throw your hands up and say, "see those criminals got one." Criminals did criminal things. But we're talking about a population of people who we don't know are criminals or not, some that are not but later do shoot people, etc. If you define criminal as those who do bad, then yes, those who do bad will do bad. It's those who aren't a criminal yet but may that we'd have to try to affect. Having gun control laws did not cause more to have guns and it might prevent some ill-equipped people from getting one and causing crime.

For example, I wouldn't even know where to get Mary Jane, but if it were right there, maybe I would. It's not there, so I didn't look for it. If I were dead-set on getting MJ, maybe I'd find out, but I'm not. Gun control won't stop these crazy people and dead-set criminals, but it would stop others and 1 life is enough. Now, those who pass the gun control measures could prevent some deaths, so that's why I don't say ban them all, either. It's all about figuring out who can or cannot have it, but that's difficult. Crazy people don't have a crazy stamp and some people who are fine look crazy/criminal. A pick-pocketer, a petty thief, are criminals and stealing may lead to robbery, but people could also see that as unrelated. Those who have a slightly bad pass need protection too as their life still is important. Some would-be criminals don't have a record and finding out that one is a criminal after he shot someone is a sad reality.

So I don't know the solution, I just don't think these things are mutually exclusive so the fact that we can't stop all of them is not a reason to stop trying to stop some.

 

[MHSL82]

And what's Switzerlands? Every male is given a gun when they turn 18. I believe they have the lowest crime rate if not one of the lowest. Don't cherry pick what you want. Trust me if you were in a mall and god forbid a shchi came in shooting people, and the guy next to you is a law abiding citizen that pulls out his concealed carry weapon and drops the guy saving your life. I bet you would be thankful he had it.

If you can make us all Swedish, then this sounds great. Context is important here. I don't think we Americans would act under the same laws the way they would. Not saying banning or really restrictive gun control is the answer, but just saying that the Swedes do it one way is like asking someone why they aren't wearing a coat in the summer when they wear coats all the time in the winter. I thought coats made you feel better?

 

[MHSL82]

Toby, the mother of the Sandy Hook murderer had pistols, which he brought with him during his massacre. If the government took away semi-autos, he'd still have the pistols.

You're thinking emotionally instead of rationally.

How many shots can one take in 20 seconds with a pistol versus a semi-automatic - would a few of the kids been able to get away while he reloaded? Is it more possible than what happened? Were any of the kids killed with the second bullet but would have survived the first? (I know we don't know this, but this is something to consider because with an automatic you can get more out. Coincidentally saving a life would be just as good as doing it by design.) Someone can kill with a knife, it doesn't mean that a gun isn't more dangerous. It seems I've read people equate "can't stop them all" with "shouldn't do anything" or "one problem (nuts and criminals) is bigger so we should only focus on that one problem." Why not address multiple problems? Not reactionary (ban all guns) but thoughtfully on all issues, not just the "big one."

If, with unlimited supply but practical restraints of the gun, you could kill more people in 1 minute with a semi-automatic than with a pistol - get rid of the semi-automatic and deal with the damage the pistol caused - unless you can get rid of the pistol. 5 + 2 = 7 Even without the 5, you still have 2. Well, then give me the 2 - that's better than 5 or 7.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

I just finished reading your post and came across this part. I think educating your kids (as long as they're old enough) is the way to go. Teach them how to shoot, teach them how to handle, be firm about why it's not ok to play a game with guns.

If a gun is kept at home it might have to be used one day, make sure they know its not a toy, that its for protection.

Not saying your Pops was wrong though, just sharing my beliefs.

No worries, I generally don't get offended by stuff on the forums. I was taught how to shoot and was taught gun safety, but I never got the combo to the gun safe because, "you're never going to use my guns unless I'm around, so there is no reason to give you the code. Once you can buy your own gun(s) you can go shooting whenever you want, but until then just tell me if you want to go shooting and we will go." There were 1 or 2 guns that were illegal at the time, so I think that played a part.

I know what you mean by possibly needing to use a gun for defense, but luckily it never came to that.

 

[abaskin18]

Nobody's "pumping" guns into society, but what you're saying is exactly right. People commit fewer gun crimes where people are known to possess guns.

Let me give you an example. My step-dad was friends with a guy who lived in a 4-plex in a really bad neighborhood. Every morning he would walk to his car carrying a shotgun. He'd put it in the trunk of his car & go to work (this was all perfectly legal). He then came home, took the shotgun out of his trunk and walked inside. He did this on purpose so people would see him. Nobody ever bothered him, and the other three units of the 4-plex were all robbed. They didn't touch his place.

As weird as this seems, even criminals don't like the possibility of being shot. And EVERYWHERE in the world guns regulations are stffened, gun-crime goes up. And vice-versa. Austrailia is a perfect example of this. Home invasion in Switzerland and Isreal are almost non-existent.

In a country as big as the U.S., it's impossible to have cops everywhere. I want as many responsible people I know to be known for the fact that they own guns. That way, people won't bother them.

And I have a rock that keeps tigers away.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

How many shots can one take in 20 seconds with a pistol versus a semi-automatic - would a few of the kids been able to get away while he reloaded? Is it more possible than what happened? Were any of the kids killed with the second bullet but would have survived the first? (I know we don't know this, but this is something to consider because with an automatic you can get more out. Coincidentally saving a life would be just as good as doing it by design.) Someone can kill with a knife, it doesn't mean that a gun isn't more dangerous. It seems I've read people equate "can't stop them all" with "shouldn't do anything" or "one problem (nuts and criminals) is bigger so we should only focus on that one problem." Why not address multiple problems? Not reactionary (ban all guns) but thoughtfully on all issues, not just the "big one."

If, with unlimited supply but practical restraints of the gun, you could kill more people in 1 minute with a semi-automatic than with a pistol - get rid of the semi-automatic and deal with the damage the pistol caused - unless you can get rid of the pistol. 5 + 2 = 7 Even without the 5, you still have 2. Well, then give me the 2 - that's better than 5 or 7.

I appreciate what you're trying to say, but his glock was semi auto, and depending on the magazine would hold between 17-33 rounds, so the gun can fire rounds basically as fast as the trigger can be pulled. He also had a Sig Sauer, which would have been semi-auto as well.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

Yeah, fonk!

I can dig what you talkin about on that felon shit, I caught one of those ex felon in possession of a firearms, only a 1-3 though, except it was on top of trafficking charges. Glad to be pretty much done wit that.

Sounds like you been in some sticky situations, I commend you for staying away from thang thangs, because it only took me getting jumped once before I refused to let anything like that happen to me again.

I feel you man. I felt the same way after I got jumped the first time for walking my buddy's drunk girl home after a party.

I spent a lot of time in Oakland back in the day (never again, though), and the city installed poles that have mics so OPD is able to pinpoint within 50 feet where any gunshots came from, so walking with a gun wasn't the best idea, plus, even though I did admittedly think of how nice it would be to level the playing field if I was to be jumped again by busting out a 9mm, I had dreams of college, and getting tangled into some hood war shit has never been who I am.

I learned early that if you plan on carrying a weapon you better be ready to use it, otherwise you just endanger yourself because someone could take it from you, or dickhead cops could try and detain you. I'm a knife enthusiast and carried a knife for awhile, but I stopped when I came to that realization that I didn't want to ever use it.... and, honestly, I don't really mind taking a punch.

I kind of miss the days when you could squab with people. If you have problems with someone, you put on the boxing gloves and went a few rounds till someone got knocked down or gave up. And fuck, after the fight you aren't even that pissed anymore cause you gain a bit of respect for someone when they punch you in the mouth.

 

[abaskin18]

And what's Switzerlands? Every male is given a gun when they turn 18. I believe they have the lowest crime rate if not one of the lowest. Don't cherry pick what you want. Trust me if you were in a mall and god forbid a shchi came in shooting people, and the guy next to you is a law abiding citizen that pulls out his concealed carry weapon and drops the guy saving your life. I bet you would be thankful he had it.

Wow, I must have missed this post. Someone bringing up Switzerland and accusing others of cherry picking in the same paragraph. That's really something.

 

[MHSL82]

I appreciate what you're trying to say, but his glock was semi auto, and depending on the magazine would hold between 17-33 rounds, so the gun can fire rounds basically as fast as the trigger can be pulled. He also had a Sig Sauer, which would have been semi-auto as well.

I'm not following. I don't know much about guns, but I assume his glock and Sig Sauer was what he used, how fast and how many could the pistols that he owned but didn't use shoot? Or is his "glock" the pistol, which as you said was semi-auto? Can pistol's be semi-auto or is that an oxymoron to say semi-auto pistol? (I thought pistols were standard, not semi-auto.) Or are you saying his semi-auto that he used was slow because it can only fire a fast as a trigger can be pulled? So therefore, the shots are the same?