OPS

[MilkSpiller22]

lol

the point of these Stats is to gauge a hitters value and ability..

OPS does that better than BAPS.. End of story. For the very simple reason that OBP is better than BA...

They both have their flaws for different reasons..

OBP tells us the rate of opportunities for scoring runs the hitter. This aspects is needed to be looked at in order to figure out how productive a hitter is.

BA doesn't tell us the rate of opportunities nearly as good enough..and just adding it to slugging is redundant.. You would be better off just using Slugging by itself

Now if your argument is using Slugging and OBP individually is better than adding them together because of the formulaic flaw. Ok, I wouldn't disagree. Just like I would say its better to look at k% and bb% separately instead of using K/BB rate..

But saying its better then a Redundant Stat like BAPS, that isn't even as encompassing as OPS? No way dude..

My argument has never been OPS is worse than OBP, and slugging... as it is them combined you can just consider the stat those 2... My argument has been that OPS is too flawed, and i thought "BAPS" is not as flawed... just the only problem is that the intention of OPS is all about runs... and therefore the OBP is the important stat in the formula for the intention...

As for the pitching stats you mentioned... K/BB is not a useless stat, it is all about power and control and since K and BB rate both use batters faced as the denominator they can be easily compared to eachother... now of course just like all stats it does not stand alone...

 

[steveringo]

My argument has never been OPS is worse than OBP, and slugging... as it is them combined you can just consider the stat those 2... My argument has been that OPS is too flawed, and i thought "BAPS" is not as flawed... just the only problem is that the intention of OPS is all about runs... and therefore the OBP is the important stat in the formula for the intention...

As for the pitching stats you mentioned... K/BB is not a useless stat, it is all about power and control and since K and BB rate both use batters faced as the denominator they can be easily compared to eachother... now of course just like all stats it does not stand alone...

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect...

Where on Earth have you ever seen OPS used in correlation with Runs? OPS measures ones ability to get on base and hit for power. That is it. Nothing else.

 

[romeo212000]

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect...

Where on Earth have you ever seen OPS used in correlation with Runs? OPS measures ones ability to get on base and hit for power. That is it. Nothing else.

Not that complicated is it?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

On-base Plus Slugging (OPS) is exactly what it sounds like: the sum of a player’s on-base percentage and their slugging percentage. Many saberists don’t like OPS because it treats OBP as equal in value with SLG%, while OBP has been proven to be roughly twice as important as SLG% in scoring runs (x1.8 to be exact). However, OPS has value as a metric because it is the only widely accepted statistic that accounts for all the different aspects of offense: contact, patience, and and power. You can find OPS on baseball cards and in broadcasts, and it’s a simple statistic for regular baseball fans to understand.


Taken from fangraphs...

maybe i read it wrong... But if the intent is not about runs, then why does it matter that OBP is better for runs than slugging?? why is wOBA, the replacement stat for OPS??

 

[steveringo]

On-base Plus Slugging (OPS) is exactly what it sounds like: the sum of a player’s on-base percentage and their slugging percentage. Many saberists don’t like OPS because it treats OBP as equal in value with SLG%, while OBP has been proven to be roughly twice as important as SLG% in scoring runs (x1.8 to be exact). However, OPS has value as a metric because it is the only widely accepted statistic that accounts for all the different aspects of offense: contact, patience, and and power. You can find OPS on baseball cards and in broadcasts, and it’s a simple statistic for regular baseball fans to understand.


Taken from fangraphs...

maybe i read it wrong... But if the intent is not about runs, then why does it matter that OBP is better for runs than slugging?? why is wOBA, the replacement stat for OPS??

That is taking it a step further. The first line says what it is and the last line says what it is for.

"...the sum of a player’s on-base percentage and their slugging percentage... a simple statistic for regular baseball fans to understand."

That article linked above was a great read. It takes OPS to the next level... This is where SABR begins. and wOBA was born of the same logic....

 

[MilkSpiller22]

That is taking it a step further. The first line says what it is and the last line says what it is for.

"...the sum of a player’s on-base percentage and their slugging percentage... a simple statistic for regular baseball fans to understand."

That article linked above was a great read. It takes OPS to the next level... This is where SABR begins. and wOBA was born of the same logic....

No, the first line does not say what it is for, it says what it is... and this was where you people who were arguing were going wrong... the way we use the stat, and what it is intended for is different... The simplicity of the statistic is great until you realize that the simplicity erases the logic of the statistic... It is intended to better predict run opportunities... and therefore you guys are correct "BAPS" is not as good as OPS...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect...

.

Just wondering if that was meant as a compliment or an insult... I want to insult you back if it is an insult...

 

[steveringo]

Just wondering if that was meant as a compliment or an insult... I want to insult you back if it is an insult...

Yes. It was a friendly insult (a line from Princess Bride again)...

At times, it is hard to follow your arguments - so I shall clearly not choose the wine in front of you....



So, feel free to send insults back. (If you want to pick on my stature, I am the same size as Pedroia (and have a similar hair-line))...

 

[Lord Scalious]

On-base Plus Slugging (OPS) is exactly what it sounds like: the sum of a player’s on-base percentage and their slugging percentage. Many saberists don’t like OPS because it treats OBP as equal in value with SLG%, while OBP has been proven to be roughly twice as important as SLG% in scoring runs (x1.8 to be exact). However, OPS has value as a metric because it is the only widely accepted statistic that accounts for all the different aspects of offense: contact, patience, and and power. You can find OPS on baseball cards and in broadcasts, and it’s a simple statistic for regular baseball fans to understand.


Taken from fangraphs...

maybe i read it wrong... But if the intent is not about runs, then why does it matter that OBP is better for runs than slugging?? why is wOBA, the replacement stat for OPS??

Because the Ability or rate at which you get on base is more important than the worth of hits by total bases..

Makes sense if you think about it. Guy goes 3-4 with 3 singles. He created 3 opportunities for runs and only committed one out. Guy goes 1-4 with a Triple. He only created 1 higher percentage opportunity, but committed 3 outs.

Not to mention going by plate appearance tells you more than just At Bats..

The Article does a great job at giving you a good idea what each outcome may truly be worth. By what the average runs produced by each outcome. Using the sample size of all of the MLB..

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Because the Ability or rate at which you get on base is more important than the worth of hits by total bases..

Makes sense if you think about it. Guy goes 3-4 with 3 singles. He created 3 opportunities for runs and only committed one out. Guy goes 1-4 with a Triple. He only created 1 higher percentage opportunity, but committed 3 outs.

Not to mention going by plate appearance tells you more than just At Bats..

The Article does a great job at giving you a good idea what each outcome may truly be worth. By what the average runs produced by each outcome. Using the sample size of all of the MLB..

Scalious, i am not sure what you are arguing right now, i stated that OPS is about runs... I was doubted and then i gave an excerpt...