OPS

[MilkSpiller22]

Can someone explain to me why OPS is OBP + Slugging and not BA + slugging(name would change to BAPS).

Slugging and OBP are totally different stats... Slugging uses At bats while OBP uses total plate appearances... The purpose of OBP is to see the amount someone gets on base, while the purpose of slugging is to see how productive someone is per AB... wouldnt it make more sense for it to be BA and slugging since they both use AB, and they are both purely "hitting" stats??? Unless someone can convince me otherwise, i think OPS shows ignorance to the true purpose of the stats...

 

[BigDDude]

Someone get Bill James on line one to field this one..........

It would take a mind like his, much better than mine, to give you a good discussion on this.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Someone get Bill James on line one to field this one..........

It would take a mind like his, much better than mine, to give you a good discussion on this.

I am convinced that when OBP became popular the intention was for it to take over BA, and they created other more advanced stats using OBP instead of OPS because OBP is more "popular" than BA...

 

[huskers1217]

:mindblown:

do we really need stats for every little fucking thing.

plus they have that ratio about how well your team does in comparsion to the next person on the depth chart or something like that.

 

[Swangin]

I don't understand the question?

AB = At Bats

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don't understand the question?

AB = At Bats

first off AB+BB+HBP+SF=PA

second off BA and slugging use the same number to divide into(AB)... BA= hits/AB slugging= TB/AB...

 

[Swangin]

first off AB+BB+HBP+SF=PA

second off BA and slugging use the same number to divide into(AB)... BA= hits/AB slugging= TB/AB...

Why would you wanna combine BA and SLG, what would that tell you? OBP and slugging are combined to show all aspects at the plate.

 

[romeo212000]

Why would you wanna combine BA and SLG, what would that tell you? OBP and slugging are combined to show all aspects at the plate.

This.

 

[steveringo]

Can someone explain to me why OPS is OBP + Slugging and not BA + slugging(name would change to BAPS).

Slugging and OBP are totally different stats... Slugging uses At bats while OBP uses total plate appearances... The purpose of OBP is to see the amount someone gets on base, while the purpose of slugging is to see how productive someone is per AB... wouldnt it make more sense for it to be BA and slugging since they both use AB, and they are both purely "hitting" stats??? Unless someone can convince me otherwise, i think OPS shows ignorance to the true purpose of the stats...

I think you reading too much into the equation. What would be the point of adding BA & SLG? The total number of hits per AB is already inherent in SLG. By adding them together, you would just be watering down SLG. The purpose of OPS is to get walks into the equation...

Step back and look at the evolution...

We used to have BA. Someone realized it didn't tell much, so they created OBP to include walks and HBP. Someone also realized that a 2B is better than a 1B, so they created SLG to tell a little bit more than BA. Someone then realized that both of these stats told something a little different - and combining them would show something even better. In terms of basic stats, OPS just tells a more complete picture then the three prior...

And, stats are here for us to enjoy. No one says you can't create your own, so if you want to see BAPS, just do it.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think you reading too much into the equation. What would be the point of adding BA & SLG? The total number of hits per AB is already inherent in SLG. By adding them together, you would just be watering down SLG. The purpose of OPS is to get walks into the equation...

Step back and look at the evolution...

We used to have BA. Someone realized it didn't tell much, so they created OBP to include walks and HBP. Someone also realized that a 2B is better than a 1B, so they created SLG to tell a little bit more than BA. Someone then realized that both of these stats told something a little different - and combining them would show something even better. In terms of basic stats, OPS just tells a more complete picture then the three prior...

And, stats are here for us to enjoy. No one says you can't create your own, so if you want to see BAPS, just do it.

I do make my own stats, but that is not the purpose of this thread... my question is whether that stat OPS makes sense theoretically... I have not heard a compelling argument yet... Just because some of us use OPS as the tell all stat for offensive players doesnt mean it is and doesnt mean it is a great statistic... Maybe i just dont know what OPS is intended to tell... Because i always thought it was very hard to compare apples with oranges... and never heard of an applorange...

 

[Swangin]

I do make my own stats, but that is not the purpose of this thread... my question is whether that stat OPS makes sense theoretically... I have not heard a compelling argument yet... Just because some of us use OPS as the tell all stat for offensive players doesnt mean it is and doesnt mean it is a great statistic... Maybe i just dont know what OPS is intended to tell... Because i always thought it was very hard to compare apples with oranges... and never heard of an applorange...

How are you seeing it as apples to oranges? Apples to oranges would be factoring a players range in the field and his BA to come up with an offensive stat. getting on base, and slugging % are 2 of the most important offensive stats. this just combines the 2 to give a better stat. I guess I'm missing what you are getting at?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

How are you seeing it as apples to oranges? Apples to oranges would be factoring a players range in the field and his BA to come up with an offensive stat. getting on base, and slugging % are 2 of the most important offensive stats. this just combines the 2 to give a better stat. I guess I'm missing what you are getting at?

Apples to oranges is an exageration... but OBP is intended to show how often someone gets on base while BA is to show how often someone gets a hit... by taking the intention of the stat which one belongs with Slugging?? Slugging is intended to show how productive someone is per at bat...

 

[steveringo]

I think apples and aranges are great. Apples can really help reduce cholesterol, and oranges can boost your immune system. Both are very productive in different ways.

Johnny eats 25 apples a months and his cholesteral is fantastic, but he only eats 7 oranges and is always getting sick.

Pedro eats 30 oranges every month and is never sick, but he only eats 4 apples and his cholesterol is sky high.

Teddy eats 19 apples and 19 oranges every month. He doesn't get sick very often, and his cholesterol is pretty good.

APO:
Teddy = 38
Pedro = 34
Johnny = 32

So, you see apples (getting on base?) are good - and oranges (slugging) are good, but in a different way. Wouldn't it make sense that some of each would be better than just a lot of one or the other?


BA tells us how many hits we get per at bat.

OBP tells us who gets on base a lot.

SLG tells us who gets a lot of XBH.

OPS tells us who gets on base a lot and gets a lot of XBH.

 

[BigDDude]

Apples to oranges is an exageration... but OBP is intended to show how often someone gets on base while BA is to show how often someone gets a hit... by taking the intention of the stat which one belongs with Slugging?? Slugging is intended to show how productive someone is per at bat...

This is all mostly beyond me, as I don't like to think that hard. However, in repect to just the slugging pct, this lead me to a question.

Does one's % go up after a bases loaded walk, or a bases loaded h.b.p?

I would think off hand yes, as it ended up being a productive a.b, WITHOUT the benefit of a hit.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

This is all mostly beyond me, as I don't like to think that hard. However, in repect to just the slugging pct, this lead me to a question.

Does one's % go up after a bases loaded walk, or a bases loaded h.b.p?

I would think off hand yes, as it ended up being a productive a.b, WITHOUT the benefit of a hit.

No, walks and HBP never affect slugging percentage. it will though bring your OBP and therefore your OPS up a little... when i used the word productive, it is situation proof... although i do think slugging percentage should include walks...

 

[BigDDude]

No, walks and HBP never affect slugging percentage. it will though bring your OBP and therefore your OPS up a little... when i used the word productive, it is situation proof... although i do think slugging percentage should include walks...

Thank you Milk.

No, back to your scheduled discussion.......

 

[Swangin]

Apples to oranges is an exageration... but OBP is intended to show how often someone gets on base while BA is to show how often someone gets a hit... by taking the intention of the stat which one belongs with Slugging?? Slugging is intended to show how productive someone is per at bat...

Personally Slg% is my fav stat. A lot of saberists like OBP more because they say it creates more runs. which might be true as far as value for a team, but just as an individual player SLG% shows me more. It lets me know you can create scoring opportunities as well as drive in guys in scoring position.

But back to combining the 2, again it's just a way to be able to combine 2 stats that don't filter into each other to make a better stat. Wouldn't you want to be able to ge the best of both world's in one stat? The stats that make up OBP aren't involved in SLG, and vise veser. Just a way to get all offensive aspects into one stat which I would think equalls a good stat, no?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Personally Slg% is my fav stat. A lot of saberists like OBP more because they say it creates more runs. which might be true as far as value for a team, but just as an individual player SLG% shows me more. It lets me know you can create scoring opportunities as well as drive in guys in scoring position.

But back to combining the 2, again it's just a way to be able to combine 2 stats that don't filter into each other to make a better stat. Wouldn't you want to be able to ge the best of both world's in one stat? The stats that make up OBP aren't involved in SLG, and vise veser. Just a way to get all offensive aspects into one stat which I would think equalls a good stat, no?

Once again it depends on how you intend to use the stat, but adding 2 stats that are calculated differently is very dangerous(mathematically speaking), you are making assumptions that the 2 stats are created equal...


As for my Individually made up statistics i do include walks into my version of slugging percentage... So i do add my version of OBP to my version of slugging to make my version of OPS...

 

[steveringo]

No, walks and HBP never affect slugging percentage. it will though bring your OBP and therefore your OPS up a little... when i used the word productive, it is situation proof... although i do think slugging percentage should include walks...

You have just discovered why OPS was created...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You have just discovered why OPS was created...

I think Slugging should have walks... But it doesnt... you cant artificially add it by adding in a new statistic to the old...