Okay guys, what do you think?

[thunderspirit]

Well, whether Cutler was "the reason" is clearly a matter of opinion. In a way either of these could have been considered Cutler's "fault", but assigning blame is a somewhat subjective matter in those cases. It is certainly not as cut and dry as you are trying to put it.

There's no question that McDaniels' team suffered greatly when Cutler forced his way out of Denver, particularly on offense. And Cutler did that because of a personal problem with McDaniels - this isn't a matter of debate, it's fairly well known. Whether all of the offensive malaise Denver suffered those two years while they retooled is Cutler's "fault" is of course debatable, but at the minimum it was a factor.

Lovie Smith...again, it's tricky. Lovie is gone almost purely because of the failure to execute offense under his tenure. Assigning blame there between Cutler and his coordinators and Angelo (who, let's not forget, was responsible for the abysmal offensive drafts) is not easy. If I were trying to do it, I would say something more like "he was only part of the reasons Smith was fired" rather than "NOT the reason."

Trestman...well, here again, I don't know. Was this team's offensive problem Trestman or Cutler's fault? I don't really know....I definitely blame both. Trestman clearly went away from the run at mysterious times in games (see for example Green Bay game 1), and too frequently did not seem to have game planned to an opponent's specific weakness (e.g. the Carolina D line's right, Green Bay's middle, the small New England safeties, etc). That being said, Trestman's schemes usually generated open receivers that Cutler frequently did not throw to. We still don't know who did what on run audibles, but that's probably at least partly on Cutler. And the O line had terrible problems properly calling correct blocking on passing plays...this was a major problem. That's definitely partly on Garza (why the fuck did we resign him again?) but also partly Cutler's responsibility....in-game at-snap calls really aren't Trestman's job.

So I don't know Joey...you can try to wash Cutler's hands in those three firings, but I don't really buy that. Now, no way he was the sole reason for any of them, but it's hard to not notice what role he did play.

These kinds of things can be overlooked with some playoff success, but there isn't any to do that with.

Cutler deserves criticism for his lousy performances this season.

At the same time, here's a list of guys who were OCs for Cutler with the Bears who went on to be successful NFL OCs elsewhere afterward:

R̶o̶n̶ ̶T̶u̶r̶n̶e̶r̶
M̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶M̶a̶r̶t̶z̶
M̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶T̶i̶c̶e̶

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Cutler deserves criticism for his lousy performances this season.

At the same time, here's a list of guys who were OCs for Cutler with the Bears who went on to be successful NFL OCs elsewhere afterward:

R̶o̶n̶ ̶T̶u̶r̶n̶e̶r̶
M̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶M̶a̶r̶t̶z̶
M̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶T̶i̶c̶e̶

while Atlanta was bad this year, I have heard an awful lot of praise from many people I respect about how good of a job Tice did with a terrible situation this season. I mean, it was so bad for them that they started a Gabe Carimi at guard, the horrible Peter Konz at center, and a tight end at right tackle. For that line to have had that much success in pass blocking, doesn't Tice deserve at least some credit for that work?

OK I know I know...he is doing that as an O Line coach not an OC. Fair enough.

The other way the list of "no successful OCs" elsewhere argument is often spun is that Cutler destroyed their careers. I think that's a little excessive, but there's a grain of truth in it too.

 

[thunderspirit]

The other way the list of "no successful OCs" elsewhere argument is often spun is that Cutler destroyed their careers. I think that's a little excessive, but there's a grain of truth in it too.

That's entirely possible, and neither of us know the total truth of the situation.

Cutler is a constant in the failure of those coordinators.
Their success as OCs post-Cutler is another constant.

 

[anotheridiot]

I like ya man. But can you please take this as an opportunity to realize how you sometimes twist things to suit your arguments, and outright make shit up sometimes?

Jerome Bushrod has passionately defended Jay Cutler in the media all week long.

I mean, come on man.

Like I said, of course a top paid tackle who has allowed his QB to get hit often this year is gonna defend the quarterback when the mics are pointed at him.

I see a quarterback with that glassy look in his eye, not getting a play called in time in the huddle, with the same blank look on his face like this shit is not gonna work.

I left the tv yesterday, zach was on the sideline on the radio and the only guy trying to fire up the offense was Long. There were no cams pointed at long, no mics, just fire. Thats a sideline reporter observing what was not seen or reported on TV. Thats when its real.

Lights, camera action and everyone is a supporter and everyone is doing and saying what they should.

 

[beardown07]

Am I alone in thinking Jay looked sickly this year? His face looked super skinny and gray...like a fucking meth-head er' something?

He had a double-chin when he got here...slimmed down and looked real fit there for a couple of years, and then this year, just looked like he'd been holed up in a room somewhere doing blow all offseason?

 

[anotheridiot]

He looked the way he did his first years here during night games when his diabetes diet was all fucked up for late games. Seemed they got it fixed for all games lovies last two years here. I dont rule out part of trestmans changes of strength and fitness coaches had a different plan for Cutler and it flat out did not work. Remember all the ligament related injuries that happened last year when Lovies flexibility guys were replaced by strength guys?

Thats the look I remember seeing from Jay when he played bad at night. I just saw it all season.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Ugh... I think Jay's the best option going forward for 2015...BUT I'm sick of talking about Jay Cutler. I'm sick of trying to educate the stupid.
The opinions are so strong, bias one way or the other and at times misinformed or misguided.

IT DOES NOT MATTER!!! Not anymore... Let's find out who the new GM and HC will be... The Cutler Question will work itself out, either he will be here or not. We will have plenty of time to fight over what was the correct way. I'm afraid either way- Stay or Go... The fan base as a whole will not be satisfied.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Ugh... I think Jay's the best option going forward for 2015...BUT I'm sick of talking about Jay Cutler. I'm sick of trying to educate the stupid.
The opinions are so strong, bias one way or the other and at times misinformed or misguided.

Well, the rest of us misinformed, misguided, stupid meatballs sure are lucky to have the universal seer of truth on hand to show us the one true way. Thanks for being here, Joey, and laying down the law.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

No problem.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Am I alone in thinking Jay looked sickly this year? His face looked super skinny and gray...like a fucking meth-head er' something?

He had a double-chin when he got here...slimmed down and looked real fit there for a couple of years, and then this year, just looked like he'd been holed up in a room somewhere doing blow all offseason?

Dude, football players do not use cocaine. No way. Absolutely not!

 

[nebearsfan70]

And it reads like Ted Phillips could be moved away from his current duties to worry solely about the financial side of the house (which is pretty much what he does anyway).

Ted Phillips likely moving away from Chicago Bears football*operations - Windy City Gridiron

If this is indeed true, then the right type of changes might be on the horizon.

Hells yeah!

 

[anotheridiot]

Ugh... I think Jay's the best option going forward for 2015...BUT I'm sick of talking about Jay Cutler. I'm sick of trying to educate the stupid.
The opinions are so strong, bias one way or the other and at times misinformed or misguided.

IT DOES NOT MATTER!!! Not anymore... Let's find out who the new GM and HC will be... The Cutler Question will work itself out, either he will be here or not. We will have plenty of time to fight over what was the correct way. I'm afraid either way- Stay or Go... The fan base as a whole will not be satisfied.

We, the misguided, misinformed stupid, were AGAIN talking of FIXING JAY CUTLER, not whether he will be here or not!

Talking about his health decisions and how he looked when his diet was ADMITTEDLY blamed for his bad night performances YEARS AGO, HEATH DECISIONS THAT WERE ALTERED AND PROVED TO GET CUTLER BETTER HEALTH AND PROFESSIONAL RESULTS is far more than MEATBALLS asking for his head. Cutler played great in 12:00 starts his first two seasons here. 3:15 starts, night games, he was glassy eyed and stiff.

I truly believe us "haters" are not here suggesting how JAYS NEXT TEAM should go about fixing him. Its OUR TEAM FIXING HIS PROBLEMS.

You want us to read all your dribble, go find facts to support our conversations, read the fact that the biggest hater shows more support than your reprimands.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

We aren't going to agree. When you say "dribble" - I take that as you simply dismissing what I wrote. I have plenty of facts and truths... you don't want to see them. That's the bias. (for both of us)

You have suggestions, perceptions, and body language stuff that you interpret and attribute to his failures. Glassy eyes, camera shots of him sitting on the bench, jerk face...etc. Your comment about how Long was firing up the offense- You took that as: Look at what Jay's NOT doing.

Cause= effect... Except the leaps to effect are often biased and grand.

His Diabetes is why he's bad in night games.
Jay shrugged his shoulders= he doesn't care!
Jay sits alone on the bench in that 2 second camera shot= His teammates don't like him
Throws ball at the ground in frustration after false start= Look at the Jerk!
QB2 is looking at pictures and iPads on the bench= Jay's NOT doing what he should be!
OC/Coach is fired= Jay's a coach killer! (I have more facts about that)
Bushrods back is turned to Jay= He's tuned him out!!

go find facts to support our conversations,

wait what? I have to do research to support you? That doesn't make sense. IF you want me to buy into what you are saying- you need to have facts. (and not leaps of speculation like
Cali does that- I can respect what he's saying cause he comes with more reasonable ideas.

 

[anotheridiot]

See, you come to conclusions that nobody else seems to come to. That means I am wrong and you and whoever does not bother to bicker with you are wrong?

No, his diabetes was why he was bad in night games. They fixed that. The diet, fitness coaches were changed under trestman, the sickly look we saw all year (that I did not bring up) that used to just be during night games was back all the time. Unbelievably, that is defending cutler.

Never said anything about shrugging shoulders.

Sitting on bench pouting alone instead of interacting with his team mates.

Cant get a play called, well, how many false starts and delays of game did Claussen have in his only playing time this year?

QB looking at tablet on the sideline was an answer to why others page thru three ring binders looking at pictures and explaining that its all quicker with a tablet. You mistook this as cutler hate not cutler support. Cutler did this with his non confrontational backup McCown. He did not do it with Campbell, did not do it with Claussen, did not do it with a nobody Hanie. Nobody was able to tell him anything they saw from the sidelines.

You want to listen to what players say in front of the cameras, not what happens when they dont think anyone is paying attention. You want me to find facts from interviews when they know everyone is paying attention to prove observations.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

I don't think I'm always right, I just present a different point of view. As to the typical things that cause people to not like Jay: body language, jerkface... etc. When you read that different view you take that as I'm some kind of "holier than thou" person. I'm not... I just don't buy into the narrative that Jay's a jerk- based solely on this stuff.

QB looking at tablet on the sideline was an answer to why others page thru three ring binders looking at pictures and explaining that its all quicker with a tablet. You mistook this as cutler hate not cutler support. Cutler did this with his non confrontational backup McCown. He did not do it with Campbell, did not do it with Claussen, did not do it with a nobody Hanie. Nobody was able to tell him anything they saw from the sidelines.
I wasn't specifically referencing you in those examples- those were just the most glaring examples people use to disparage Jay. Who's to say he didn't do it with those other guys? Just cause the camera didn't catch him doing it...or it's easier to believe he didn't- cause that's the narrative, that's the story. It's firmly in place now. Fair or not... just like when Brady screams at people or Rivers launches his own "jerkfaces" it's because they are full of "Passion and fire" And "look at that leadership". Rodgers was even shown laughing when down 23 points to the Saints- nobody bats an eye... but when Jay does those things the whole sporting world craps on him. That's the narrative of Jay Cutler, it's ingrained now.

You want to listen to what players say in front of the cameras, not what happens when they dont think anyone is paying attention. You want me to find facts from interviews when they know everyone is paying attention to prove observations.

I don't understand this? Yes I listen to what players say... Unless you know him or practice with him, nobody can see what these guys are like off camera. You don't either... So why the speculation that he's not a team player/leader...etc.

I can't think of an example of when a player blatantly lies to the cameras that he "loves" his teammate on and off the field and praises him- when in reality hates him off camera. There has been plenty of times when guys simply dismiss a question or have a PC answer.
The observations you are talking about are just speculation... based on bias.

 

[leomaz]

I would love to see a new coach, whoever it is, come in and not try to "FIX" Jay. I would love to see a coach come in and not be the one calling plays on offense. I would love to see a coach come in and not have a ego so big it gets in the WY of making correct decisions

 

[anotheridiot]

I don't think I'm always right, I just present a different point of view.

You want to listen to what players say in front of the cameras, not what happens when they dont think anyone is paying attention. You want me to find facts from interviews when they know everyone is paying attention to prove observations.

I don't understand this? Yes I listen to what players say... Unless you know him or practice with him, nobody can see what these guys are like off camera. You don't either... So why the speculation that he's not a team player/leader...etc.

I can't think of an example of when a player blatantly lies to the cameras that he "loves" his teammate on and off the field and praises him- when in reality hates him off camera. There has been plenty of times when guys simply dismiss a question or have a PC answer.
The observations you are talking about are just speculation... based on bias.

And I just present a different point of view too.

I just catch the little things. I catch the audio that inadvertely gets picked up on a sideline mic, a referees mic. What I am saying is you listen to what players say when they are being interviewed. I am bringing up points when they dont know the cameras are on them. Sideline reporters saying Long is the only one trying to fire up the offense. Put a mic in Bushrods face and he isnt gonna say he wasnt firing up everyone. Thats all. I am not saying these players are reading prepared statements, I am saying they are thinking about how they will look when they say what they do.

Brandon Marshall was vocal in his support for Cutler week in and week out. When he goes out of his way to not talk about Cutler later in the season, that says more than just not talking about cutler to me.

During one of his ESPN shows, Marshall said we have the best all purpose running back in football, we have the best tight end in football, he can block and catch passes. Kyle long is one of the best guards in football, Alshon and him were top receivers in the league. He had to be asked about Cutler. He didnt forget to say cutler, he pursosely did not bring cutler up. That speaks more than not bringing up cutler at all.

I am hoping Shannahan takes the job just as head coach, some personnel decisions with coaches and players, but not full control. Full control killed him in Washington. I just dont know what the relationship with Cutler is since they both left denver at the same time.