OK my new wish list for the first 3 picks

[Crimsoncrew]

yes, we do need a good NT, but the question is how high a pick for a player in on 30% of snaps?

shouldn't we spend our high pick on a player playing every down? or playing at least 50% of the snaps, like Aldon did his rookie year?

if you have a monster NT available at 31st, then scrap this argument. cause then he'd likely be our BPA. (asssuming both Sop and RJF are gone)

And yet you have repeatedly suggested drafting a QB in the first or early second.

 

[dredinis21]

To continue what I was saying about Hankins:

The Niners don't use the same NT on every play. Sopoaga played like 1/3 of the snaps. This is another reason why Hankins is a perfect fit in SF if they sign a DL like Richard Seymour. Hankins is a guy who's gonna wear down over the course of the season if he's used too much. The Niners wouldn't use him too much IMO.

I'd love it if they could get Hankins to play about 1/3 of the plays & Seymour (or another FA DE) to play about 33-50% of the plays.

Then get a pss-rush specialist (Osi? Draft pick?) to play maybe 25-33% of the plays at OLB and everyone (including Aldon) plays fewer snaps.

That was what I was getting at....does his skill set translate into being somewhat versatile in terms of playing along the entire DL in a 3-4 or is he primarily a NT only. If his skills look to translate to being a dominant NT and/or an above average DE in the 34, then I'm sold.

 

[deep9er]

And yet you have repeatedly suggested drafting a QB in the first or early second.

most football fans know the QB is a different animal.

i repeatedly said do look at QB's first, if none, then move on. but you've taken it as me wanting a QB, any QB? as much as i repeat 'do look at QB before moving on', you will repeatedly say i'm for a QB, no questions asked. sigh!

 

[Ray_Dogg]

My dream first 2 picks are D Moore and D Hopkins. I would have D wood.

 

[dreday]

I think we stand a great chance of getting both of them. If Moore has a bad pro day, & tht doesn't matter 2 front office.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

most football fans know the QB is a different animal.

i repeatedly said do look at QB's first, if none, then move on. but you've taken it as me wanting a QB, any QB? as much as i repeat 'do look at QB before moving on', you will repeatedly say i'm for a QB, no questions asked. sigh!

No, I don't think that. You always deal in hypos when discussing the draft, so I'm forced to assume that you would take a QB if circumstances were right. You certainly haven't done anything to dissuade me of that notion.

I agree that QB is a different animal, but you don't take a QB with your first pick when you have a very good player at the position. Now, it's possible that you are still skeptical of Kaepernick. But arguing we should take a QB in the first round solely because Kap might get hurt is frankly dumb. Given his pocket presence and escapability, as well as his experience running (i.e., his awareness and ability to get out of bounds without taking a shot), he probably ends up taking fewer hits a game than Smith. We need to add a QB, but our first priority should be to strengthen Kap's supporting cast. I don't think I'd go near a QB until the third round unless the value was very good - as in that guy is the BPA, not counting for the bump QBs always get due to the position.

 

[deep9er]

No, I don't think that. You always deal in hypos when discussing the draft, so I'm forced to assume that you would take a QB if circumstances were right.

I agree that QB is a different animal, but you don't take a QB with your first pick when you have a very good player at the position. Now, it's possible that you are still skeptical of Kaepernick. But arguing we should take a QB in the first round because Kap might get hurt is frankly dumb. We need to add a QB, but our first priority should be to strengthen Kap's supporting cast. I don't think I'd go near a QB until the third round unless the value was very good - as in that guy is the BPA, not counting for the bump QBs always get due to the position.

therein lies the problem, i'm NOT arguing for a QB in the 1st round, you're claiming i am.

for the 10th time, i'm throwing it out there cause we need a QB. simple!

are you saying Baalke/Harbaugh should totally, utterly, completely ignore QB at 31st? if so, who's the dumb one? if you say they should at least look, then you agree with me and whats your problem?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

therein lies the problem, i'm NOT arguing for a QB in the 1st round, you're claiming i am.

for the 10th time, i'm throwing it out there cause we need a QB. simple!

are you saying Baalke/Harbaugh should totally, utterly, completely ignore QB at 31st? if so, who's the dumb one? if you say they should at least look, then you agree with me and whats your problem?

I believe they should pass on a QB at 31 in this draft. I wouldn't use the 31st pick on a player that I view as a backup. It's fine to be a backup for a year, but I wouldn't take a player at that spot who I only envision getting on the field in the case of injury.

My objection is more to your apparent view of Kaepernick. You seem to think Kaepernick is below average as an starting QB, and thus you would view another player who we take at 31 as a starter over Kaepernick. I don't see anyone who comes close to fitting that bill at 31 this year.

 

[deep9er]

I believe they should pass on a QB at 31 in this draft. I wouldn't use the 31st pick on a player that I view as a backup. It's fine to be a backup for a year, but I wouldn't take a player at that spot who I only envision getting on the field in the case of injury.

My objection is more to your apparent view of Kaepernick. You seem to think Kaepernick is below average as an starting QB, and thus you would view another player who we take at 31 as a starter over Kaepernick. I don't see anyone who comes close to fitting that bill at 31 this year.

it is bad enough you claim i was arguing for a QB at 31st, now you're connecting it to..........i not liking Kap??!!

geezus Crimson, what is wrong with you?

 

[justforkicks]

I believe they should pass on a QB at 31 in this draft. I wouldn't use the 31st pick on a player that I view as a backup. It's fine to be a backup for a year, but I wouldn't take a player at that spot who I only envision getting on the field in the case of injury.

My objection is more to your apparent view of Kaepernick. You seem to think Kaepernick is below average as an starting QB, and thus you would view another player who we take at 31 as a starter over Kaepernick. I don't see anyone who comes close to fitting that bill at 31 this year.

I think what Deep is saying is that if there were a QB, such as Aaron Rodgers, at pick 31, a player that either has the tools to be elite or is elite, but just dropped for some crazy reason, that the niners should consider drafting him. Do the necessary homework on the player and so forth. They'd be able to coach him up to either compete for the starting role or use in a trade like they did with Alex.

Since the QB is the most important position on the field, you can never have too many good ones at a low price. Also, if you have two really good QBs, you can trade one for two 1st rounders and still have a good starting QB. I don't think this has anything to do with Kap or any other QB in the draft.

 

[deep9er]

I think what Deep is saying is that if there were a QB, such as Aaron Rodgers, at pick 31, a player that either has the tools to be elite or is elite, but just dropped for some crazy reason, that the niners should consider drafting him. Do the necessary homework on the player and so forth. They'd be able to coach him up to either compete for the starting role or use in a trade like they did with Alex.

Since the QB is the most important position on the field, you can never have too many good ones at a low price. Also, if you have two really good QBs, you can trade one for two 1st rounders and still have a good starting QB. I don't think this has anything to do with Kap or any other QB in the draft.

mahalo!

Crimson can get 'stoopid' depending on the messenger.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

it is bad enough you claim i was arguing for a QB at 31st, now you're connecting it to..........i not liking Kap??!!

geezus Crimson, what is wrong with you?

You have said you would take a QB at 31 this year. I'm not sure how I'm misstating your position.

As for Kaepernick, what is your view of him? Because if you think he is our starter for the foreseeable future, there is absolutely no reason we would realistically consider a QB in the first round. If you endorse taking a QB that high, as you have, I have to assume that you don't think Kaepernick is our future, because no one with any sense would draft a QB in the first round to be a career backup.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I think what Deep is saying is that if there were a QB, such as Aaron Rodgers, at pick 31, a player that either has the tools to be elite or is elite, but just dropped for some crazy reason, that the niners should consider drafting him. Do the necessary homework on the player and so forth. They'd be able to coach him up to either compete for the starting role or use in a trade like they did with Alex.

Since the QB is the most important position on the field, you can never have too many good ones at a low price. Also, if you have two really good QBs, you can trade one for two 1st rounders and still have a good starting QB. I don't think this has anything to do with Kap or any other QB in the draft.

The bold is true. But a first round pick is a high price. As far as trading our backup QB for two first rounders, when has that EVER happened? For that matter, how many starting QBs have been traded for two first round picks?

Even if we assume a trade like the Kolb trade, which is about as much as you would ever expect to get for a backup, you're looking at the 19th pick in the second round and a player who didn't fit the Cardinals' scheme. In essence, you're using a first this year in the hope that two or three years down the road you can recoup roughly the same value. And that's only likely to happen if Colin gets hurt and misses substantial time. If the suggestion is to add a QB in the first as future trade bait, it's beyond idiotic.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

mahalo!

Crimson can get 'stoopid' depending on the messenger.

No, you just tend to abandon reality where the draft is concerned. I don't think it's stupidity, per se. Mostly ignorance. But I suppose there's always room for completely implausible hypotheticals.

Speaking of a lack of reality as it pertains to the draft, remind me of your position on the Niners' '07 draft. Still subpar?

 

[supreme_clientele81]

The bold is true. But a first round pick is a high price. As far as trading our backup QB for two first rounders, when has that EVER happened? For that matter, how many starting QBs have been traded for two first round picks?

Even if we assume a trade like the Kolb trade, which is about as much as you would ever expect to get for a backup, you're looking at the 19th pick in the second round and a player who didn't fit the Cardinals' scheme. In essence, you're using a first this year in the hope that two or three years down the road you can recoup roughly the same value. And that's only likely to happen if Colin gets hurt and misses substantial time. If the suggestion is to add a QB in the first as future trade bait, it's beyond idiotic.

Carson Palmer

 

[deep9er]

what if Harbaugh/Baalke evaluates a QB just as good as Kap when he was on the board? what if they felt he was a slightly better passer at that stage? five QB's went before Kap so its possible other teams don't see it same as Harbaugh.

we are drafting 31st in round 1, not top 10, not top 15, not top 20, not op 25, not top 30. stop exagerrating.

we want a good back-up IF possible, mainly for our team and we shouldn't have to list the reasons. a secondary reason is possibly trading him or Kap should contract issues arise?

is it idiotic to pass QB at 31st, but ok to draft him at 34th? just so you can say you didn't spend your 1st on QB? the odds of this QB are low - said it from the beginning - but if this scenario played out, wouldn't wait for 34th.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

what if Harbaugh/Baalke evaluates a QB just as good as Kap when he was on the board? what if they felt he was a slightly better passer at that stage? five QB's went before Kap so its possible other teams don't see it same as Harbaugh.

we are drafting 31st in round 1, not top 10, not top 15, not top 20, not op 25, not top 30. stop exagerrating.

we want a good back-up IF possible, mainly for our team and we shouldn't have to list the reasons. a secondary reason is possibly trading him or Kap should contract issues arise?

is it idiotic to pass QB at 31st, but ok to draft him at 34th? just so you can say you didn't spend your 1st on QB? the odds of this QB are low - said it from the beginning - but if this scenario played out, wouldn't wait for 34th.

I want to chime in on this. Yes!

I would say any pick before the 3rd round is way too high. The Patriots took a stab at Mallet in the 3rd who they think they can flip. Brady is also aging, so he could reasonably take over as their heir apparent. Kirt Cousins was drafted in the 4th and that was even a huge surprise after picking up RG3. With Colin there's the potential injury risk for a running QB to think about, but I would say a 3rd for a QB like Mallet situation who would have been a top 10 pick if he didn't have character concerns, and would ideally want to wait for the 4th or 5th round for any other long term project backups to flip.

It makes no sense to draft someone in the first or second to flip them for a first or second in later years. The main reason is because you are giving up an immediate contributing player for a backup QB who may not get in an actual game for years.

 

[Bemular]

I want to chime in on this. Yes!

I would say any pick before the 3rd round is way too high. The Patriots took a stab at Mallet in the 3rd who they think they can flip. Brady is also aging, so he could reasonably take over as their heir apparent. Kirt Cousins was drafted in the 4th and that was even a huge surprise after picking up RG3. With Colin there's the potential injury risk for a running QB to think about, but I would say a 3rd for a QB like Mallet situation who would have been a top 10 pick if he didn't have character concerns, and would ideally want to wait for the 4th or 5th round for any other long term project backups to flip.

It makes no sense to draft someone in the first or second to flip them for a first or second in later years. The main reason is because you are giving up an immediate contributing player for a backup QB who may not get in an actual game for years.

Finally! Someone who gets it! Not just well stated Storm - Perfectly stated!

 

[NinerSickness]

It makes no sense to draft someone in the first or second to flip them for a first or second in later years.

True, but it makes a ton of sense to draft a guy in the 2nd round and trade him for a top 15 pick in later years.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

what if Harbaugh/Baalke evaluates a QB just as good as Kap when he was on the board? what if they felt he was a slightly better passer at that stage? five QB's went before Kap so its possible other teams don't see it same as Harbaugh.

we are drafting 31st in round 1, not top 10, not top 15, not top 20, not op 25, not top 30. stop exagerrating.

we want a good back-up IF possible, mainly for our team and we shouldn't have to list the reasons. a secondary reason is possibly trading him or Kap should contract issues arise?

is it idiotic to pass QB at 31st, but ok to draft him at 34th? just so you can say you didn't spend your 1st on QB? the odds of this QB are low - said it from the beginning - but if this scenario played out, wouldn't wait for 34th.

I think it would be dumb to use the 34th pick on a backup QB. I would consider a late second-rounder, but at this point I'd strongly prefer to wait until the third or later.

Your post above has reminded me of an issue that arises when you discuss Kaepernick. You have consistently referred to Kaepernick the prospect when considering what we have in him - dating back several months. Kaepernick the Prospect is not on our team. We now have Kaepernick the NFL QB. He may not be fully proven, but he's a heck of a lot more of a proven commodity now than he was when we drafted him. I think there's a very strong argument that any of the five teams that drafted QBs ahead of Kap would jump at the chance to take him over the guy they picked. Hell, if we had known what he'd become, do you really think we would have waited until the second round to take him? Teams don't wait to draft QBs they believe WILL BE franchise players if they have a need at the position. The reality is that there were major question marks surrounding Kap, and we knew it as well as anyone else.

And you didn't just argue that we should consider using the 31st pick on a QB. You argued that we should strongly consider trading up.

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/2804607-post15.html

Have you since changing your position?