Official Offseason News and Rumors

[Hambombs]

You and I, Xmas day

Probably the best mini-rivalry, currently, in the NBA.

That could change with the Bulls and Cavs this Season.

Yup it's great. We matchup with you guys really well defensively

 

[bksballer89]

Will draymond cheap shot blake again?

 

[Hambombs]

Will draymond cheap shot blake again?

lol I love draymond he's one of the better defenders in the league and is versitale on defense

 

[Shanemansj13]

yah know how you said that rebounding had nothing to do with transition points?

OUT OF ALL the talented players in the NBA, all the athletes, all the speed, all the great talents, do you know who led the league in transition buckets??


COREY BREWER


do you know why?

kevin love outlet pass corey brewer - Bing Videos


IMAGINE LEBron being the recipient of these passes from Love- it will be crazy

I'm already jacking off to it

 

[WiggyRuss]

I would not be pissed in the slightest if the Wiggins trade fell through......I, in the first place, thought the Cavs should wait and get a taste of waht Wiggins can be- as I think he could be the perfect compliment to LeBron once he gets going a little say- a year and ahalf from now- and would be perfect in helping extend LeBron's career and give the Cavs a pair of defenders in LeBron and Wiggins thatw ould be INSANELY good

plus the CAvs still have those 3 first rounders and the Haywood deal to go get a different center like a Sanders/Asik/Mcgee/Lopez/ type - or even someone like possibly Marc Gasol or Al Horford


that being said- there has been a lot of momentum and build up with Love and now that the cat is outta the bag there would be some dissapointment in going back to a team that , while it might be better suited in the long run, would not be as equipped to immediately compete



i mean the whole thing is such a fascinating question

Wiggins- potential amazing defender, great athlete, amazing transition both defensively and offensively, has a nice shot that will get better, a great kid and a transcendent prospect that actually EMBRACES defenses- plus he will only make about 5 million a year and gives the about 10-15M a year in additional space to add more pieces- and of course you get to keep Bennett who actually looked in shape, and really athletic and showed some of the promise that made him a consensus top 6 pick last year- plus the #1 pick they wont have to give up


Love- arguably the best PF in the game and a top 10 player. probably the games best rebounder, a great outside shooter, an amazing passer, a great post presence, can draw fouls, amazing basketball IQ- his game PERFECTLY compliments LeBron's, he is hungry to win with a big chip on his shoulder- and he already has a good working relationship with LeBron who he played on the Olympic team with, and Kyrie who is a friend and worked on marketing gigs with- trading for him keeps him from the Cav's most threatening competition (the Bulls) and makes the Cavs the East Favorites by anyone that is just being a hater and nitpicking.


such a tough decision- but the nice part is that A and B are both very attractive options but come with their own plusses and minuses......

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I'm already jacking off to it

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'm already jacking off to it

did ureally watch that video?

surprise surprise- i have not watched much of the Twolves as they are not exactly darlings of national TV- and i had no clue Love's ability to become a one-man fast break starter like that.

with athletes like the Cav's have - ESPECIALLY LeBron obviously- that will be a freaking deadly weapon- especially with Lebron losing weight and getting a lot more help so he is more fresh and engaged when he is in.....

 

[WiggyRuss]

I feel people are really under-estimating Waiters too-

when he was drafted- I was a little upset with Grant that he was taken above Harrison Barnes- who I thought would be really good- but time has shown that Waiters was the right pick, at least so far--ESPN did an analysis the other day and had this interesting thing to say about Waiters:

"Popular opinion says SG Dion Waiters is a ball stopper who can't coexist with Irving. But dig deeper and another tale emerges: He should pair very well with James. To excel alongside LeBron, wings must drain open shots or attack off the dribble when the King draws the defense. Waiters can do both. Last season he was in Synergy's 82nd percentile by averaging 1.19 PPP on catch-and-shoot jumpers, including a 43.4 percent stroke on such 3s. "It's a very underrated part of his game," Griffin says. Playing with James, it might not be much longer."


LeBron also said something i thought was interessting about Dion --

"I love the chip on Dion [Waiters]' shoulder. Everyone else sees it as a negative, but I look at it as a positive and I look forward to getting with him."

apparently LeBron really likes Dion's game- and for whatever reason- the Cav that LeBron called and told to "get ready" while he was making his decision was Dion. -I thought that was interesting-


Dion was asked to play for the US Select team- and really does have some big-time talent....admittedly he needs to improve his approach to the mental side of the game, take more efficient shots, and to a certain extent, draw back his ego - especially with all the talent that is going to be around him this year.

Especially with how mediocre the SG position is in the NBA (i think the league's shallowest position) - I think Dion could make an all-star team or two in his career- and be asked to play for the Olympic team at some point. This is his 3rd year and we should see some improvements now that has some experience

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

did ureally watch that video?

surprise surprise- i have not watched much of the Twolves as they are not exactly darlings of national TV- and i had no clue Love's ability to become a one-man fast break starter like that.

with athletes like the Cav's have - ESPECIALLY LeBron obviously- that will be a freaking deadly weapon- especially with Lebron losing weight and getting a lot more help so he is more fresh and engaged when he is in.....

Made baskets counter fast breaks.

Love appears to almost always try to establish rebounding position vs trying to defend.

Of course with James, you will have a nightly highlight film, as the Heat did for the last 4 years.

Problem is, when you run into certain teams, especially the Spurs in a 7 game series, you won't have much footage to view.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Made baskets counter fast breaks.

Love appears to almost always try to establish rebounding position vs trying to defend.

Of course with James, you will have a nightly highlight film, as the Heat did for the last 4 years.

Problem is, when you run into certain teams, especially the Spurs in a 7 game series, you won't have much footage to view.

why does everyone act like the Spurs are this unbeatable juggernaut?

they were AMAZING last year- that Finals they played was out of this world- but they beat a Heat team that had LeBron------who admittedly was awesome------ and then Wade who did not have even one big game- and Bosh who no longer is the guy he was 4 years ago and just chills on the perimeter and does not even make the defense work anymore---- plus who were the 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, guys on the Heat? they pretty much were over the hill and sucked- they didnt exactly beat the '98 Jazz


The Spurs were pushed by a Dallas team that was not that good at all, and an OKC team who's best defender and the reigning DPOY was beat to shit and who's depth was not great either-

the Spurs are now a year older- Ginobili is 37, Duncan will be 39 before next year's playoffs, ---this was the Spurs first title since '07 in no large part because both guys were healthy when it counted- along with Parker (who the previous year had a bad hamstring in the finals that limited him)------

Do I think that the Spurs can get to the Finals- fully healthy, after going through 3 playoff series that could VERY EASILY be something like Dallas, Golden State and OKC?- I think there is a reason why the Spurs have won it once since '07 -

They are no doubt a GREAT team- but when Duncan and Ginobili played BETTER than Wade and Bosh despite being in their late 30's. With another year on their odometers- do i think Ginobili outplays Kyrie? that Duncan outplays Love? ---its certainly possible----- but how probable that a 39 year old and 37 year old that have played an extra 3-4 seasons in playoff games, are going to be able to outplay a HUNGRY 23 year old and hungry 26 year old-- its possible...no doubt...but probable?

I mean- what are the chances the Spurs even make it out of the West? I cant say its more than 50% with the 3 round of playoffs they would have to go through

 

[Heatles84]

why does everyone act like the Spurs are this unbeatable juggernaut?

they were AMAZING last year- that Finals they played was out of this world- but they beat a Heat team that had LeBron------who admittedly was awesome------ and then Wade who did not have even one big game- and Bosh who no longer is the guy he was 4 years ago and just chills on the perimeter and does not even make the defense work anymore---- plus who were the 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, guys on the Heat? they pretty much were over the hill and sucked- they didnt exactly beat the '98 Jazz


The Spurs were pushed by a Dallas team that was not that good at all, and an OKC team who's best defender and the reigning DPOY was beat to shit and who's depth was not great either-

the Spurs are now a year older- Ginobili is 37, Duncan will be 39 before next year's playoffs, ---this was the Spurs first title since '07 in no large part because both guys were healthy when it counted- along with Parker (who the previous year had a bad hamstring in the finals that limited him)------

Do I think that the Spurs can get to the Finals- fully healthy, after going through 3 playoff series that could VERY EASILY be something like Dallas, Golden State and OKC?- I think there is a reason why the Spurs have won it once since '07 -

They are no doubt a GREAT team- but when Duncan and Ginobili played BETTER than Wade and Bosh despite being in their late 30's. With another year on their odometers- do i think Ginobili outplays Kyrie? that Duncan outplays Love? ---its certainly possible----- but how probable that a 39 year old and 37 year old that have played an extra 3-4 seasons in playoff games, are going to be able to outplay a HUNGRY 23 year old and hungry 26 year old-- its possible...no doubt...but probable?

I mean- what are the chances the Spurs even make it out of the West? I cant say its more than 50% with the 3 round of playoffs they would have to go through

So much fail in one post.

What's ironic, is that you short change what the Spurs accomplished and are still capable of accomplishing while failing to realize the minutes Popovich limits with Duncan and Manu (something the Heat did with Wade because of his knee treatment).

Yet, the Cavs haven't even played a preseason game and you have them winning multiple titles.

 

[WiggyRuss]

So much fail in one post.

please explain

I mean- if the Spurs are this unbeatable juggernaut- why is this their first title since '07?

How did OKC beat them 4 games in a row 2 years ago? and played them even 2-2 in games Ibaka played in-


at some point a 38 year old Duncan and 37 year old Ginobili arent going to play like freaking all stars- i mean those 2 beat Bosh's and Wade's ass- two guys that SHOULD at the tail end of their primes


but - no one besides LeBron made the Spurs work on the defensive end at all- and the Heat supporting cast did not have one guy besides Ray Allen that the other team feared

 

[WiggyRuss]

So much fail in one post.

What's ironic, is that you short change what the Spurs accomplished and are still capable of accomplishing while failing to realize the minutes Popovich limits with Duncan and Manu (something the Heat did with Wade because of his knee treatment).

Yet, the Cavs haven't even played a preseason game and you have them winning multiple titles.

my head is going to explode-where did I EVER say the Cavs will win multiple titles?

i mean- do you just like making shit up?-

I am just saying I think that people saw that Finals series- and how a motivated and fully healthy, Spurs team that was out for revenge absolutely crapped on the Heat- and all of a sudden think they are unbeatable- when NO one was picking them to win it all before the playoff started. No doubt the Spurs were on a mission and played great- but after the Mavs series and the OKC series- no one was saying this is an all time great team that will be a heavy favorite to win it next year---- only after they beat the shit out of a Heat team that was leaking oil and out of gas- and who 2/3rd of its big three didnt show- did everyone crown them as this indestructible force of nature

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

why does everyone act like the Spurs are this unbeatable juggernaut?

they were AMAZING last year- that Finals they played was out of this world- but they beat a Heat team that had LeBron------who admittedly was awesome------ and then Wade who did not have even one big game- and Bosh who no longer is the guy he was 4 years ago and just chills on the perimeter and does not even make the defense work anymore---- plus who were the 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, guys on the Heat? they pretty much were over the hill and sucked- they didnt exactly beat the '98 Jazz


The Spurs were pushed by a Dallas team that was not that good at all, and an OKC team who's best defender and the reigning DPOY was beat to shit and who's depth was not great either-

the Spurs are now a year older- Ginobili is 37, Duncan will be 39 before next year's playoffs, ---this was the Spurs first title since '07 in no large part because both guys were healthy when it counted- along with Parker (who the previous year had a bad hamstring in the finals that limited him)------

Do I think that the Spurs can get to the Finals- fully healthy, after going through 3 playoff series that could VERY EASILY be something like Dallas, Golden State and OKC?- I think there is a reason why the Spurs have won it once since '07 -

They are no doubt a GREAT team- but when Duncan and Ginobili played BETTER than Wade and Bosh despite being in their late 30's. With another year on their odometers- do i think Ginobili outplays Kyrie? that Duncan outplays Love? ---its certainly possible----- but how probable that a 39 year old and 37 year old that have played an extra 3-4 seasons in playoff games, are going to be able to outplay a HUNGRY 23 year old and hungry 26 year old-- its possible...no doubt...but probable?

I mean- what are the chances the Spurs even make it out of the West? I cant say its more than 50% with the 3 round of playoffs they would have to go through

Nobody is unbeatable but.....


Heat fans always said the Spurs were our nightmare matchup because they can beat you so many different ways.

Their Big 3 ( even though a 4 th player was Finals MVP last year) are getting older, but if healthy are still all highly skilled and very smart.

In addition, they all play for a moderate salary which let's the Spurs go 10 deep with quality players.

No need to address coaching, but the Spurs proved they could shred the formula the Heat implemented and Cavs are for the most part trying to copy.

Maybe the Spurs lose their edge because they got revenge last year, but probably they won't.

Anyway, neither the Spurs nor Cavs is even close to a guarantee to make anything.

I was for the most part just trying to point out that highlight reels of offense is often countered by good defense. Ask the Denver Broncos.

Plus, like I said, you can't fast break off made baskets, and the Cavs don't figure to be very good defensively.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Nobody is unbeatable but.....


Heat fans always said the Spurs were our nightmare matchup because they can beat you so many different ways.

Their Big 3 ( even though a 4 th player was Finals MVP last year) are getting older, but if healthy are still all highly skilled and very smart.

In addition, they all play for a moderate salary which let's the Spurs go 10 deep with quality players.

No need to address coaching, but the Spurs proved they could shred the formula the Heat implemented and Cavs are for the most part trying to copy.

Maybe the Spurs lose their edge because they got revenge last year, but probably they won't.

Anyway, neither the Spurs nor Cavs is even close to a guarantee to make anything.

I was for the most part just trying to point out that highlight reels of offense is often countered by good defense. Ask the Denver Broncos.

Plus, like I said, you can't fast break off made baskets, and the Cavs don't figure to be very good defensively.

no- you def- make a good point about not being able to fastbreak off made baskets- that is for sure. - but its not like the Cavs are terrible on defense- they still have LeBron who is a 1st or at worst 2nd team all defensive player---- Andy Varejao is a GREAT pick and roll defender and takes charges, hustles and generally plays solid D- Waiters def has the athleticism and size to be a plus defender

obviously the weak links are Love and Irving- both who have not played great defense to say the least in the past-----I think they will both player better this year though-
both guys were obviously by far the best offensive option for their teams and spent the vast majority of their energy on the offensive end- as we know that will be different this year. --- and for Kyrie- he was young and pretty slight of frame- now he has some experience, is a little bigger- and should bebetter-

are either going to be great defenders? absolutely not- but i think both should be near adequate---- and as
I was saying- making your man work on the defensive side of the floor is and drawing fouls, and tiring out the other team helps


-and as i also said- the Cavs might be the best rebounding team in the league- and will choke out 2nd chance opportunities in a HUGE way- that will help too

you are right- the Cavs dont have even one guy who is a good rim protector- not even one- AV isnt a rim protector- he is more of a pick and roll defender, LeBron isnt gonna block guys- not one guy can protect the rim on the CAvs- that is definitely their weakness-

I think they can more than counter that with their strengths-
and their strengths will be

1. great three point shooting and floor spacing
2. great rebounding on both ends of the floor
3. great transition game
4. getting the other team in foul trouble

 

[WiggyRuss]

and last year- on defense- as a team the Cavs were 15th in the NBA in points allowed, and 12th in the NBA in opposing field goal percentage

thats not bad...its right in the middle of the pack- AND your putting Lebron on the team

they arent going to be a top 5 defense thats for sure- but there is no reason they cant be right around top 10

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

no- you def- make a good point about not being able to fastbreak off made baskets- that is for sure. - but its not like the Cavs are terrible on defense- they still have LeBron who is a 1st or at worst 2nd team all defensive player---- Andy Varejao is a GREAT pick and roll defender and takes charges, hustles and generally plays solid D- Waiters def has the athleticism and size to be a plus defender

obviously the weak links are Love and Irving- both who have not played great defense to say the least in the past-----I think they will both player better this year though-
both guys were obviously by far the best offensive option for their teams and spent the vast majority of their energy on the offensive end- as we know that will be different this year. --- and for Kyrie- he was young and pretty slight of frame- now he has some experience, is a little bigger- and should bebetter-

are either going to be great defenders? absolutely not- but i think both should be near adequate---- and as
I was saying- making your man work on the defensive side of the floor is and drawing fouls, and tiring out the other team helps


-and as i also said- the Cavs might be the best rebounding team in the league- and will choke out 2nd chance opportunities in a HUGE way- that will help too

you are right- the Cavs dont have even one guy who is a good rim protector- not even one- AV isnt a rim protector- he is more of a pick and roll defender, LeBron isnt gonna block guys- not one guy can protect the rim on the CAvs- that is definitely their weakness-

I think they can more than counter that with their strengths-
and their strengths will be

1. great three point shooting and floor spacing
2. great rebounding on both ends of the floor
3. great transition game
4. getting the other team in foul trouble

My biggest issue with most of your reasoning is that you handpick names and put them on the court together to make that argument, and then use totally different players to try to validate your next point.

When I talk Cavs defense, I'm assuming that Love/ Kyrie are on the court for around 36 minutes a game.
If they aren't, you're in trouble regardless.


Jones/ Miller/ Allen ( if he comes) can't defend anyone.

James plays defense in spurts. If he exerts to much defensively, he seems to lose a bit offensively.
That's only natural. He's pushing 30 and has logged a ton of miles.

Andy is solid, but how can he be depended on for 82+ playoff run?

Eventually, coach James will need to settle on a rotation.
Whatever it ends up being, numerous teams will have a lot of offensive success against it.

 

[WiggyRuss]

guys----

if the Pacers wanted to get rid of Hibbert- if you were the Cavs would you consider trading Thompson and cap-filler for him---- or Varejao for him?

am i being insane in that Hibbert has way more value than that?

or

am i being insane in that Hibbert has no value what so ever with how much money he is making the next 2 years

-basically- would the Cavs be better off with Varejao or Hibbert?- and keep in mind if they get Hibbert then they have no flexibility going forward for this year or next year.....

 

[WiggyRuss]

My biggest issue with most of your reasoning is that you handpick names and put them on the court together to make that argument, and then use totally different players to try to validate your next point.

When I talk Cavs defense, I'm assuming that Love/ Kyrie are on the court for around 36 minutes a game.
If they aren't, you're in trouble regardless.


Jones/ Miller/ Allen ( if he comes) can't defend anyone.

James plays defense in spurts. If he exerts to much defensively, he seems to lose a bit offensively.
That's only natural. He's pushing 30 and has logged a ton of miles.

Andy is solid, but how can he be depended on for 82+ playoff run?

Eventually, coach James will need to settle on a rotation.
Whatever it ends up being, numerous teams will have a lot of offensive success against it.

teams should have offensive success-

but as i said-

the Cavs should get easy baskets in transition, should have a decided advantage on the boards, should shoot the 3 well, and basically cannot be guarded--- no matter what the other teams offense will look like- the Cavs will have a huge advantage offensively- and will be constantly getting the other team in foul trouble- and have open looks and play efficiently


-i mean that whole paragraph that i wrote up there could be summed up by basically saying- yah man the other team might score a good amount of points- but the Cavs offense is going to be unlike anything we have seen in a long time!- plus they are gonna board like maniacs and limit theother teams 2nd chance points and get a ton of their own second chance points

that should be enough to win a ton of their games-


dont you want to see how LeBron plays with a real big time PG?- or what those outlet passes will look like from Love to LeBron? or what a Love/Kyrie pick and roll will look like- where the defense just cant key on Love because Rubio cant shoot at all?- or where the defense cant just key on Kyrie because Tristan Thompson has a LONG way to go on offense?

The Cavs do badly need a rim protector though- but - in order to get a good one- they will probably haveto wait until next offseason and use that Haywood contract which is a 10.5 million team option- and their 2 1st rounders- that contract which would offer a team HUGE savings, plus the picks, plus a player- should give the Cavs the opportunity to nab a pretty good player- not an all-star- but a pretty damn good center

 

[Shanemansj13]

My biggest issue with most of your reasoning is that you handpick names and put them on the court together to make that argument, and then use totally different players to try to validate your next point.

When I talk Cavs defense, I'm assuming that Love/ Kyrie are on the court for around 36 minutes a game.
If they aren't, you're in trouble regardless.


Jones/ Miller/ Allen ( if he comes) can't defend anyone.

James plays defense in spurts. If he exerts to much defensively, he seems to lose a bit offensively.
That's only natural. He's pushing 30 and has logged a ton of miles.

Andy is solid, but how can he be depended on for 82+ playoff run?

Eventually, coach James will need to settle on a rotation.
Whatever it ends up being, numerous teams will have a lot of offensive success against it.

Cavs need another big man, Marion would help and could play PF. But I don't think Haywood is enough at C. I forgot they have that rookie but can they depend on him for some quality minutes.