Off Season Thread

[cdumler7]

Wade Phillips is definitely winning me over to think that he will do some great things with this defense. He essentially called out Del Rio in his press conference for how he used this talent. At one point he made a comment geared towards "how the heck can you drop a premier pass rusher like Von Miller into coverage more than just a handful of times in a season?" He also commented that when you have two premier Corners on your team you have to utilize that talent. These were probably the two things above anything else that that Del Rio did was that he actually had players playing in their weakest spots at times in Von Miller dropping back into coverage and Talib and Harris playing off man/zone coverage. He was thinking we are the Seahawks and this unit is not built like them at all. First off we don't have the safety play (yet) that makes that defense go and Del Rio was not even close to as creative in how Seattle uses their front 4 to get pressure.

 

[Broncosr0k]

Sometimes I wonder if Del Rio was just looking forward to a HC position at the end of the 2014 season. At times, it looked like his coaching was just doing the motions.

 

[cdumler7]

Sometimes I wonder if Del Rio was just looking forward to a HC position at the end of the 2014 season. At times, it looked like his coaching was just doing the motions.

I definitely agree with this. He was actually somewhat creative his first couple of seasons with us. His first year actually was pretty darn impressive with how he used Dumervil and Miller. I thought for sure this season when he finally had a full arsenal to work with on defense that he would just go crazy with this group of players. Instead he pretty much decided that a Pre-Season style of defense of just have 4 go after the quarterback, drop 7 back, no stunts, play almost a cover-3 shell, and continue to ask our Linebackers and Ward to try and cover some of the best TE's in the game 1-on-1 is a good style to play. I know people will point at the "look you guys had a top-5 defense in most categories" but that is like saying our 2008 offense with Cutler was elite when we finished 2nd in yards. Now I'm not saying we were a bad defense this past season by any means but considering the talent this group had we should have been competing with Seattle for top defense by a long ways.

 

[DownSetHutch]

For what it's worth, Mel Kiper Jr. has the Broncos taking Denzel Perryman at 28.

God, I hope that's not the kiss of death for him as our 1st round pick.

 

[randymon]

Just curious. Does anybody on this board think Denver can get to SB without Peyton this season? If Peyton does retire or?, Anybody believe Oz can achieve that? The more I think about ( and I have my reservations on Manning and thats mostly health concerns), but I think it`s pretty unrealistic that Denver comes even close to a championship without him. I would like to see what Oz can do in a Kubiak system but if Elway plans on getting back this yr, no way a guy that`s played just some run out the clock snaps, be able to lead this team to a SB.Just not veisable IMO. I don`t know,Wilson did it but he also was working with first team/real game expierience,etc since pretty much day 1. I find myself really hoping Manning comes back and they ( give him the help he needs to stay healthy) for one more run. Otherwise, if Elway lets him walk or retire, it must mean he`s given up on SB in 2016 and is going to build for a run at it in the yrs after. Your thoughts?

 

[DownSetHutch]

I don't think a Championship would be out of the question with Oz in his 1st year as a starter only because Rothlisberger and the Steelers proved it can be done.

It would be a looong shot, but I wouldn't count it out of the realm of possibility. I don't think you need a great QB to win the Super Bowl - you need a great team and a good QB. We could possibly have that next year if OZ ends up being the starter. (Takes off orange glasses).

 

[Broncosr0k]

According to Jeff Legwold, Julius Thomas wants something close the Jimmy Graham's 4 years $40 million deal. Awfully big cajones for a guy the spent his first 3 of 4 years injured. He is also a guy that scares me because I think his biggest concern is getting paid rather than winning and will likely disappear for significant portions of games.

Good luck elsewhere JT.

 

[cdumler7]

Randymon I think I found one of the coolest articles I have read in a long time that I want to share with you...

Peyton Manning must play for less money to win | Yardbarker.com

This next part is a little clip from it that I found most interesting.
2014: Tom Brady, $14,800,000 (salary cap $133M)...or 11.13%
2013: Russell Wilson, $464,604 (salary cap $123M)...or < 1%
2012: Joe Flacco, $8,000,000 (salary cap $120.6M)...or 6.6%
2011: Eli Manning, $9,600,000 (salary cap $120.375M)...or 8%
2010: Aaron Rodgers, $6,500,000...(uncapped year)
2009: Drew Brees, $10,347,900 (salary cap $123M)...or 8.4%
2008: Ben Roethlisberger, $8,247,500 (salary cap $116M)...or 7.1%
2007: Eli Manning, $11,716,666 (salary cap $109M)...or 10.7%
2006: Peyton Manning, $8,550,000 (salary cap $102M)...or 8.4%
2005: Ben Roethlisberger, $4,220,250 (salary cap $85.5M)...or 5%
2004: Tom Brady, $5,058,750 (salary cap $80.582M)...or 6.3%

What we see here is the fact that while most of these guys are recognized as the elite of the NFL they won their Super Bowls before they got their monster contracts. Teams that fortunately/unfortunately have a franchise quarterback in today's NFL stand very good chances of getting to the playoffs every single year but don't seem to fair as well when it comes to winning the whole thing. If your quarterback is eating up more than 11% of your cap then good chance you are not winning the Super Bowl. If Manning is serious about winning a championship then he needs to see this and be willing to take a pay cut to make sure more of the team is loaded up with talent.

I mean just think about it as this article points out that this past season the difference between Manning's contract and that of Brady's adds the talent level of Edelman and Gronkowski to their team. For the Broncos this could mean finally being able to devote more money towards the OL such as signing a guy like Rodney Hudson or Brian Baluga...two guys considered tops for their positions or close to it. It could mean us adding a guy like McCourty from the Patriots to our safety core giving us possibly the best secondary in the entire league. It could mean maybe finding a way to get a guy like Suh to man the middle of the field for us and play the JJ Watt type role for this defense. I mean can you imagine having Ware, Miller, and Suh on the same defense? It would just be unfair.

So to answer your question Randymon I think Manning at his current salary does not give us the best shot to win the Super Bowl. If he takes a pay cut then by all means yes we would have a very very good chance if Manning can be back to full health. Otherewise I honestly I would rather take our chances with Osweiler and see what he can bring to the table. If nothing else it allows us to afford the pieces of our young core for the future if we don't have Manning and that extra $16 million in Cap Space to pay for players. We can at least surround Osweiler with one of the most talented rosters in the entire NFL to give him a chance. We could at least then rebuild our OL and have one of the best running games in all of football. IF you have a great defense and a great running game then you don't need an elite quarterback to win it all.

 

[randymon]

Randymon I think I found one of the coolest articles I have read in a long time that I want to share with you...

Peyton Manning must play for less money to win | Yardbarker.com

This next part is a little clip from it that I found most interesting.
2014: Tom Brady, $14,800,000 (salary cap $133M)...or 11.13%
2013: Russell Wilson, $464,604 (salary cap $123M)...or < 1%
2012: Joe Flacco, $8,000,000 (salary cap $120.6M)...or 6.6%
2011: Eli Manning, $9,600,000 (salary cap $120.375M)...or 8%
2010: Aaron Rodgers, $6,500,000...(uncapped year)
2009: Drew Brees, $10,347,900 (salary cap $123M)...or 8.4%
2008: Ben Roethlisberger, $8,247,500 (salary cap $116M)...or 7.1%
2007: Eli Manning, $11,716,666 (salary cap $109M)...or 10.7%
2006: Peyton Manning, $8,550,000 (salary cap $102M)...or 8.4%
2005: Ben Roethlisberger, $4,220,250 (salary cap $85.5M)...or 5%
2004: Tom Brady, $5,058,750 (salary cap $80.582M)...or 6.3%

What we see here is the fact that while most of these guys are recognized as the elite of the NFL they won their Super Bowls before they got their monster contracts. Teams that fortunately/unfortunately have a franchise quarterback in today's NFL stand very good chances of getting to the playoffs every single year but don't seem to fair as well when it comes to winning the whole thing. If your quarterback is eating up more than 11% of your cap then good chance you are not winning the Super Bowl. If Manning is serious about winning a championship then he needs to see this and be willing to take a pay cut to make sure more of the team is loaded up with talent.

I mean just think about it as this article points out that this past season the difference between Manning's contract and that of Brady's adds the talent level of Edelman and Gronkowski to their team. For the Broncos this could mean finally being able to devote more money towards the OL such as signing a guy like Rodney Hudson or Brian Baluga...two guys considered tops for their positions or close to it. It could mean us adding a guy like McCourty from the Patriots to our safety core giving us possibly the best secondary in the entire league. It could mean maybe finding a way to get a guy like Suh to man the middle of the field for us and play the JJ Watt type role for this defense. I mean can you imagine having Ware, Miller, and Suh on the same defense? It would just be unfair.

So to answer your question Randymon I think Manning at his current salary does not give us the best shot to win the Super Bowl. If he takes a pay cut then by all means yes we would have a very very good chance if Manning can be back to full health. Otherewise I honestly I would rather take our chances with Osweiler and see what he can bring to the table. If nothing else it allows us to afford the pieces of our young core for the future if we don't have Manning and that extra $16 million in Cap Space to pay for players. We can at least surround Osweiler with one of the most talented rosters in the entire NFL to give him a chance. We could at least then rebuild our OL and have one of the best running games in all of football. IF you have a great defense and a great running game then you don't need an elite quarterback to win it all.

That CD is excellent and I agree 100% that the only way for Denver to get back with Manning, is how serious is he about one more shot a SB or is he more interested in all the records he will more than likely break ( Farves for one). That will be the tale of the tape if you will,as to what mind set Peyton really has going onto this season. If he does like we hope and restructures/paycut,etc, then we have a chance with the cash availability, to add some "necessary" pieces to make a strong run at it. If not, I`am with you as to lets give the reins to OZ and use the money on building the Oline and D to help compensate for what is to be expected, Oz having to adjust to being the guy. A Kubiak system is a great fit for a guy that is still wet behind the ears to take alot of pressure off him and let him build confidence with a great supporting cast. Great post CD and thanks for that info. It will be very interesting to see what happens in the next few wks as to which way Denver goes and like you said.....where is Mannings heart really at? Stats and money or SB. We shall see soon.

 

[cdumler7]

So looks like while the Broncos will most likely roll with Manning this upcoming season they are also working on a contract extension with Osweiler as they still feel he is the future of this organization. If they get that deal done it will definitely go a long way in fans being able to see behind the curtain of what the team sees in Osweiler since he is such an unknown.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Found this piece, which talks about implementing a more attacking style of defense this year, encouraging: New Denver Broncos defense aims to break (foes) more than it bends - The Denver Post

Also thought this, which ranks our offensive needs as 1. RT, 2. TE, and 3. G/C interesting: Denver Broncos Offseason Top Areas Of Need

Among other moves, the article mentions moving Vasquez back to RG, letting Franklin go and perhaps signing a RT like Bryan Bulaga or Jake Long. Also intrigued by the idea of perhaps letting Julius go and signing Owen Daniels, along with bringing back Green and Tamme.

 

[notorious98]

There is a flaw in that article about QB dollars and cap dollars. It doesn't take into account for money not spent. Yes, the salary cap for 2014 was $133M. But the Patriots didn't use all of that money. According to overthecap, the Patriots had $10M in free cap space. That means Brady could have been paid $22M and the Patriots would have been in the same position.

 

[randymon]

Found this piece, which talks about implementing a more attacking style of defense this year, encouraging: New Denver Broncos defense aims to break (foes) more than it bends - The Denver Post

Also thought this, which ranks our offensive needs as 1. RT, 2. TE, and 3. G/C interesting: Denver Broncos Offseason Top Areas Of Need

Among other moves, the article mentions moving Vasquez back to RG, letting Franklin go and perhaps signing a RT like Bryan Bulaga or Jake Long. Also intrigued by the idea of perhaps letting Julius go and signing Owen Daniels, along with bringing back Green and Tamme.

Don't forget theirs another te Denver has that they are very intrigued with in Dominique Jones. Not too many know about him

 

[TDs3nOut]

Don't forget theirs another te Denver has that they are very intrigued with in Dominique Jones. Not too many know about him

Interesting possibility, Randy. I am still hopeful about maybe getting Daniels, but perhaps is Jones is a superior sleeper choice,

 

[Broncosr0k]

Is anyone else a little worried that we have not heard much about resigning our FAs other than JT is likely gone and Pot Roast may be as well?

 

[DownSetHutch]

I can't say I'm worried about it. I did hear that DT will be tagged if they can't work out a long-term deal though.

We have a lot of guys that need to be resigned, but I have faith in Elway, et. al., and we have a lot of cap room to get them done. We could stand to lose Welker and JT, and should try to keep everyone else, IMO.

 

[cdumler7]

So news from the combine yesterday was actually pretty Bronco heavy.

1st--D. Thomas is staying with the Broncos no matter what. Elway said if they can't get a deal done he is for sure the one going to be tagged.

2nd--I think Elway was very upset with how little Fox and company were willing to use the young players early on in their careers. He had high praise for guys like Schofield and Latimer who hardly got any playing time throughout the season. He actually has big expectations for them as does Kubiak.

3rd--Some of the FA's for the Broncos are upset about the lack of communication by the team up to this point but Elway and company are meeting with the agents of Franklin, DT, Knighton, and Moore.

4th--Looks like Julius Thomas is on his way out. He does not like Denver and from what I have read only has 2 friends on the entire team and can't stand John Elway or Peyton Manning. He has said he does not want the Broncos to make him another offer and will test FA. Still a chance he comes back if he finds the open market to be cold (which right now only 2 teams seem to have any interest in Atlanta and Jacksonville).

 

[cdumler7]

Reading a bit more from yesterday it sounds like one of the biggest issues that Elway and Fox disagreed on was that of the young players. Elway was wanting to get them involved early and often to help in their development but Fox refused to even make them game day actives most of the time. Sounds like in Elway's opinion Schofield was actually ready to have an opportunity at RT so they could keep Vasquez at his All-Pro position but Fox refused to do so. Another example is the fact he kept activating Caldwell over Latimer even though Latimer had the bigger upside of the two and Caldwell was really struggling this past year. Part of the hiring of Kubiak is that he really believes in developing the young players and giving them the opportunities to shine for the team.

 

[Broncosr0k]

Good stuff CD.

The more I hear about Julius Thomas the more I think he is out for a paycheck and likely going to have a mediocre career. It is a shame that some of these guys are not interested in the game. How many millions of people would love to trade places?

 

[cdumler7]

Good stuff CD.

The more I hear about Julius Thomas the more I think he is out for a paycheck and likely going to have a mediocre career. It is a shame that some of these guys are not interested in the game. How many millions of people would love to trade places?

Couldn't agree more. Not very often that a person is so gifted athletically that in college they can realize they won't make a career out of basketball and just decide to become an NFL player and have success. The kid is just ridiculously gifted but there are just so many red flags about this kid going up lately that unless he just takes a ridiculous deal from us like 2-years at $3 million per year I just can't see him coming back or at least me wanting him back. His dad (if his twitter account is actually his dad) has pretty much bad-mouthed the entire Bronco fan base and JT has pretty much said he wants to go play for our biggest rival if given the chance. Not something that really endears a person to the fans. I think he is a guy that can have success in this league but if he keeps going with the attitude he has I see him as out of the league in 5-years.