Niners Vs. Texans (NFL NETWORK)

[MHSL82]

Also, if Smith hadn't thrown the ball a bit behind VD, that could have been a TD. If any of you haven't rewatched it yet, you should. A completed ball would have been at least to the ten if not a TD. I'm giving Davis the benefit of the doubt that it was not placed by Alex well. It wasn't that bad, but could have been better.

I don't mean to spend so much time on this one preseason play, just that it was the biggest play besides the pass interference play on Manningham.

 

[Jikkle]

Also, if Smith hadn't thrown the ball a bit behind VD, that could have been a TD. If any of you haven't rewatched it yet, you should. A completed ball would have been at least to the ten if not a TD. I'm giving Davis the benefit of the doubt that it was not placed by Alex well. It wasn't that bad, but could have been better.

I don't mean to spend so much time on this one preseason play, just that it was the biggest play besides the pass interference play on Manningham.

I agree which is why I didn't think the fact he didn't hit Moss was a huge deal because in my layman's eyes it seemed like that's exactly how that play is supposed to operate.

It looks like the same play we cleaned up with in the playoffs so I'm assuming VD is his first read with Moss being the guy to clear out space and the second read.

Smith looked VD and saw exactly what he wanted which was VD being singled covered by a LB that had no shot of keeping up with him and he pulled the trigger. If Davis catches the ball it's a strong chance he houses it for a score.

If Smith dumped it off to a RB or made another safe throw I would be far more critical of him regarding that play.

 

[Jikkle]

Here's a still that someone put up of the play in question for those curious.

Moss play

 

[BINGO]

San Francisco 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh (carefully) voices displeasure with replacement officials - San Jose Mercury News

 

[Bemular]

Here's a still that someone put up of the play in question for those curious.

Moss play

I think this is the play I just commented on from another writer's perspective. Based on this photo I would agree, if Davis catches that pass he has only a CB & a FS to beat with Moss in front as a blocker - definitely a good chance he takes that home.

 

[mufasa76]

I think this is the play I just commented on from another writer's perspective. Based on this photo I would agree, if Davis catches that pass he has only a CB & a FS to beat with Moss in front as a blocker - definitely a good chance he takes that home.

Agreed

 

[MHSL82]

I'm not that good at reading plays or coverages, so I don't know if this guy is right, a little wrong, or totally wrong. I just found this on another board re: the missed opportunity to Moss and wanted to pass it along. I was going to just ignore and move on, just thought maybe someone who was curious would like to read it. Again, as a disclaimer, I'm not saying he's right. If you disagree and want to correct it, great. If you want to ignore or move on, please just move on rather than blasting me for it...

I think many people don't understand what the read that actually takes place on a play like this is.

Smith isn't watching Moss (or Vernon for that matter) right at the snap. Generally in a play like this, the QB tries to determine if it will be man or zone coverage. This is generally done pre-snap by using a man in motion or just looking at how the players line up. In this case, I think most QBs would have (correctly) assumed man coverage.

The next read is on what the saftey does. The safety has a couple of options. He can drop straight back and play the middle. He can shadow one side as if to give help. He can move up in run support. When the ball is snapped, Smith has to take several steps back. During that time, he is looking for obvious pressure (blitzes) and what the saftey is doing. In this case, the saftey shadowed Moss's side and dropped back.

At this point, the read becomes Vernon. That is because Moss will be double covered 90% of the time when the saftey drops like that. However, the saftey voids the underneath route leaving a LB on Vernon without help. Had Davis caught that ball, it is an easy 20 yard gain.

A QB doesn't really have time to think about all that though, so reads like this are made reflexive by practicing. If I were a betting man, I would bet Smith's internal dialog went far more like:

"No pressure, Left side saftey dropping, center clear - Vernon" than "Maybe Moss, Maybe Vernon, Maybe Moss, Maybe Vernon - ahh - just take the safe throw".

On this particular play, Moss made his defender look silly, and neither the corner nor the saftey could recover from it. Against most corners, Moss wouldn't have been open and he would have been double coveredd (man on corner with saftey help). So I can't really fault the read Smith made. That being said, in the future I bet you Smith will check quickly to see if Moss has made a fool out of the other corner before moving on.

Perhaps I could have explained what I meant by left side safety better, but what I meant was fairly simple. What I assumed was the left safety is lined up close to the line of scrimmage behind the OLB who is lined up to blitz. He picks up the TE on that side and drops with him. The safety on the RS drops to center field on the snap - so is moving left.

We can go through the entire play instead to make sure no one misunderstands.

The 49ers are lined up with 2 wide receivers (Moss to the left, Crabtree to the right), 2 tight ends (Vernon on the right, I'm not sure who was left), and Smith under center. The Texans are showing press man coverage on Crabtree and Moss. They have one safety high who starts out on the right side (note - this is Crabtree's side) of the hash backing up towards the hash as the ball is snapped. They have 3 men down with their 2 OL linebackers showing blitz. What I assume is the free safety on the left lined up close the the OLB showing blitz on that side.

As Smith drops back, the high safety takes about 4 steps towards the left, and ends up on the left side of the center hash. Both OLBs come on the blitz, the OLB on the left side releasing the TE on that side to the left safety, who then drops back and voids the middle. The MLB who would generally hold the crossing route comes on a blitz as well. At this point, there are 6 men rushing. As I mentioned, the center safety is dropping towards center and cheating towards Moss's side.

It is at this point Smith has to make his read. He can't wait because the Texans are sending 6 men. You have a high safety moving to the left (he makes a mistake in that he doesn't turn when Smith goes to throw but instead drops straight back - this is what makes Moss so open at the end. Had he turned and continued to go left, he could have provided over the top support to the corner who gets beat).

After about 2 more steps back for Smith, the middle safety starts to drop straight back. The free safety on the left side is now dropping towards the right middle, voiding the spot that VD is going to run into. Moss is starting to get separation, but Smith is starting to throw. The blitzing MLB is picked up by Hunter who to his credit slows him down enough for Smith to make a throw.

Smith releases a throw that beats the blitz and hits VD in stride in the vacated zone. You can try to spin this however you want, but what Smith does is the right read. He throws at the blitz like you are supposed to. He throws to the zone voided by blitzing defenders. His throw comes out right as the MLB gets to him. VD has the entire field clear with at least 10 yards in front of him.

Yes, Moss made the corner covering him look silly with that juke. That shows how good of a receiver Moss is. But you can't sit there and pretend that Smith didn't make the right read. Given the pressure that was coming (once again - they sent 6!) and the zones that were voided, it was the right throw.

The correct cover read is a cover 1. Man-free, that is just another name for cover 1. I just called in man because I figured the extra terminology didn't add much. I clearly explained who followed who in the play.

Also, the correct read is to throw into the blitz. If the MLB did not blitz, you take the high read. There are two reasons for that. First, you get more time for the play to develop. Second, the MLB can help out on the crossing TE. The QB can afford the extra second to watch which route the safety playing high commits too.

Once the MLB blitzed, the correct read was to Vernon. By blitzing, the MLB removed himself from coverage and left a gaping hole on that side of the field. A good safety would have come over on Moss and a good corner wouldn't have lost his pants when Moss juked at the start of the play. So your high read is throwing into double coverage.

This (below link) may have already have been posted and it may support or contradict the above quoted explanation.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85483175@N08/7826699474/

 

[Bemular]

I'm not that good at reading plays or coverages, so I don't know if this guy is right, a little wrong, or totally wrong. I just found this on another board re: the missed opportunity to Moss and wanted to pass it along. I was going to just ignore and move on, just thought maybe someone who was curious would like to read it. Again, as a disclaimer, I'm not saying he's right. If you disagree and want to correct it, great. If you want to ignore or move on, please just move on rather than blasting me for it...


This (below link) may have already have been posted and it may support or contradict the above quoted explanation.

Smitty1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Pre-snap read is cover-1, man-under blitz with Moss receiving the double over the top. There is no motion and no defenders bailing so the post-snap defense is the same.

Judging from the photos it looks like Moss might have juked hard outside turning the hips of the CB which is what made him immediately open to the inside.

Meanwhile, Crabtree is in a pure man-to-man. Unfortunately, the CB was wearing Crabtree like a Christmas ornament so Crabtree was useless.

Protection was good at 6-on-6 so this should have been a HUGE play with all the mismatches.

 

[MHSL82]

San Francisco 49ers video | CSNBayArea.com | CSNCalifornia.com Click on "Smith happy with decsions..."

Disclaimer: this doesn't make it true, just passing it along that it was said.

Alex said that the Moss non-pass play was the correct read but the ball placement wasn't where it should/could be. He said he should have led him on that play.

Roman said that he wasn't going to divulge the different reads of that play, but he was happy with the decision to throw to VD.

I'll post this on the other thread too just because it's about the other pass, but he said he threw the ball because he saw the interference. That could be a lie, a truth, or just a factor in a throw he normally would have made anyway. It could have also been Manningham running the wrong route or Alex throwing it to an incorrect spot. My guess is a bit of the route and the interference, not just the interference giving the green light.

He also said that he ran into a sack on third and seven, and I assume he means he needs to get better at using his legs.

 

[Bemular]

San Francisco 49ers video | CSNBayArea.com | CSNCalifornia.com Click on "Smith happy with decsions..."

Disclaimer: this doesn't make it true, just passing it along that it was said.

Alex said that the Moss non-pass play was the correct read but the ball placement wasn't where it should/could be. He said he should have led him on that play.

Roman said that he wasn't going to divulge the different reads of that play, but he was happy with the decision to throw to VD.

I'll post this on the other thread too just because it's about the other pass, but he said he threw the ball because he saw the interference. That could be a lie, a truth, or just a factor in a throw he normally would have made anyway. It could have also been Manningham running the wrong route or Alex throwing it to an incorrect spot. My guess is a bit of the route and the interference, not just the interference giving the green light.

He also said that he ran into a sack on third and seven, and I assume he means he needs to get better at using his legs.

Not legs - Pocket presence

 

[MHSL82]

Not legs - Pocket presence

You're right, wrote that kind of fast to avoid the editing window closing. Also, I know you know more than I do on these things (though I do know what pocket presence is). Thanks for the clarification, I should have said pocket presence - which he needs to improve on.

 

[Bemular]

You're right, wrote that kind of fast to avoid the editing window closing. Also, I know you know more than I do on these things (though I do know what pocket presence is). Thanks for the clarification, I should have said pocket presence - which he needs to improve on.

You're fine. But, just for the record I don't believe a QB can improve on his pocket presence (PP). PP is defined by a QB's ability to "feel" what is going on around him (yes 360 degrees around him) and react appropriately.

Alex has never had (and I believe never will have) strong instincts in the pocket, or for that matter, as a QB. Smith is mechanical as opposed to instinctual. There is noting wrong with that until the defense takes away what he wants to do.

 

[MHSL82]

You're fine. But, just for the record I don't believe a QB can improve on his pocket presence (PP). PP is defined by a QB's ability to "feel" what is going on around him (yes 360 degrees around him) and react appropriately.

Alex has never had (and I believe never will have) strong instincts in the pocket, or for that matter, as a QB. Smith is mechanical as opposed to instinctual. There is noting wrong with that until the defense takes away what he wants to do.

Hopefully with our new players, Roman and Harbaugh's creativity, etc. we can postpone the defense knowing what Smith wants to do. This, of course, hinges on Smith taking advantage, taking shots, and of course, has its limitations. If we could have a QB with great pocket presence and the weapons, that will overcome the limitations of play calling. Otherwise, we will be more limited the more Smith struggles in this area. As far as combatting the defense, if Smith takes more shots, it'll be harder to know whether Smith will continue to check down (in which defenses depending on the situation may take away or let if ineffective). I don't see Smith drastically changing who he is, but we may make it harder on defenses this year.

 

[Bemular]

Hopefully with our new players, Roman and Harbaugh's creativity, etc. we can postpone the defense knowing what Smith wants to do. This, of course, hinges on Smith taking advantage, taking shots, and of course, has its limitations. If we could have a QB with great pocket presence and the weapons, that will overcome the limitations of play calling. Otherwise, we will be more limited the more Smith struggles in this area. As far as combatting the defense, if Smith takes more shots, it'll be harder to know whether Smith will continue to check down (in which defenses depending on the situation may take away or let if ineffective). I don't see Smith drastically changing who he is, but we may make it harder on defenses this year.

The phrase "making it harder" on defenses simply means disguising and creating mismatches. Disguising an offense comes from running plays from many different formations as well as running several different plays from the same formation.

Mismatches are created with play design, audibles and accidents. Smith can't too easily re-define what he is, but he can improve some aspects of it (such as his mechanics, etc). However, he had better re-define who he is - meaning his tendencies.

Pocket presence and weapons are two different things - Having PP simply allows a QB to feel his surroundings and know when and equally as important where to move in the pocket to avoid pressure, extend a play and complete a pass or perhaps avoid a batted pass.

In order for Smith to be successful this season he is going to have to play differently than last season and differently than he has ever played before. He is going to have to become a QB willing to take bigger risks and turning those risks into even bigger rewards than last year.

 

[Jikkle]

You're fine. But, just for the record I don't believe a QB can improve on his pocket presence (PP). PP is defined by a QB's ability to "feel" what is going on around him (yes 360 degrees around him) and react appropriately.

Alex has never had (and I believe never will have) strong instincts in the pocket, or for that matter, as a QB. Smith is mechanical as opposed to instinctual. There is noting wrong with that until the defense takes away what he wants to do.

I think PP can be improved upon with experience but I do agree that instincts play a bigger role and it can only be improved on to a certain extent.

I liken it to a WR and hands in that you can improve you hands but no matter how much time you spend at the juggs machine you'll never have better hands than those that are just natural pass catchers. Vernon Davis I would consider a fine example of this.

Smith imo mainly needs to reset the internal clock in his head. You can tell by watching him his brain has been conditioned to 1, 2, 3, get hit because you can just see the anxiety build and that's when the happy feet and panic attack start to happen.

That's something I think will take some time to fix if it ever does get fixed because it requires you to trust your line more to hold up protection and that trust isn't something that occurs after a couple of plays.

 

[Bemular]

I think PP can be improved upon with experience but I do agree that instincts play a bigger role and it can only be improved on to a certain extent.

I liken it to a WR and hands in that you can improve you hands but no matter how much time you spend at the juggs machine you'll never have better hands than those that are just natural pass catchers. Vernon Davis I would consider a fine example of this.

Smith imo mainly needs to reset the internal clock in his head. You can tell by watching him his brain has been conditioned to 1, 2, 3, get hit because you can just see the anxiety build and that's when the happy feet and panic attack start to happen.

That's something I think will take some time to fix if it ever does get fixed because it requires you to trust your line more to hold up protection and that trust isn't something that occurs after a couple of plays.

I would not have compared PP to a WR's 'hands' so we may be defining it a bit differently, which is fine. Hands equate more to technique than instincts. I think Alex will always need a split-second more time in the pocket, but if he can get it then I think he can do some damage.