NFL Scouting Combine notes

[ChrisPozz]

First Take - ESPN

Zoom to about the 19 minute mark. This discussion on the combine is beyond laughable. It has me so heated that they were allowed to pass this off as a valuable debate topic. It's embarassing, ridiculous, flagrantly bad, and so many other words/phrases that I'd love to use but I think I made my point clear.

 

[ChrisPozz]

Only 9 reps for Brian Winters. Oh man. That is BAD. Horrible, terrible, and very, very bad.

 

[ChrisPozz]

First Take - ESPN

Zoom to about the 19 minute mark. This discussion on the combine is beyond laughable. It has me so heated that they were allowed to pass this off as a valuable debate topic. It's embarassing, ridiculous, flagrantly bad, and so many other words/phrases that I'd love to use but I think I made my point clear.

OT: Oh my goodness. The discussion about Danica at the Dayton 500 is horribly bad as well! Wow!

 

[Bemular]

First Take - ESPN

Zoom to about the 19 minute mark. This discussion on the combine is beyond laughable. It has me so heated that they were allowed to pass this off as a valuable debate topic. It's embarassing, ridiculous, flagrantly bad, and so many other words/phrases that I'd love to use but I think I made my point clear.

Which position is beyond laughable or are both positions laughable?

 

[LeaderOCola]

big showing on the bench by Cooper

 

[ChrisPozz]

Which position is beyond laughable or are both positions laughable?

Both. The only idea that I could get beyond is Skip's thought that you need to watch games (I hate when FANS call it "tape" or "film"). Except he said that's ALL he cares about.

 

[BINGO]

First Take - ESPN

Zoom to about the 19 minute mark. This discussion on the combine is beyond laughable. It has me so heated that they were allowed to pass this off as a valuable debate topic. It's embarassing, ridiculous, flagrantly bad, and so many other words/phrases that I'd love to use but I think I made my point clear.

Skip thinks the combine is "useless". Stephen A. doesn't think speed matters based on his comment. Those guys a funny. What they are both basically saying is that the combine is not a good enough evaluation tool (worthless). They are crazy!

 

[BINGO]

Hunter > Patterson
Really solid WR class, though.

No way!! Not even in his sleep could he dream of that.

 

[Dodub]

Only 9 reps for Brian Winters. Oh man. That is BAD. Horrible, terrible, and very, very bad.

The OL Brian Winters? He must have hurt something. There is no way that a 300 lbs OL can only do 9 bench press reps if he's healthy. I could do more than 9 reps when I was 16 years old and I've never been anywhere near 300 lbs. He has to be hurt, there is just no way.

 

[Dodub]

No way!! Not even in his sleep could he dream of that.

I don't think you could go wrong with either one of them. I would love it if we got Hunter at 31 like some mocks say. But I do think Patterson has a better all around game right now. Once again I think they will both be awesome in the NFL so I don't really think it matters which one is better right now.

 

[MHSL82]

Skip thinks the combine is "useless". Stephen A. doesn't think speed matters based on his comment. Those guys a funny. What they are both basically saying is that the combine is not a good enough evaluation tool (worthless). They are crazy!

Stephen A. Smith's position is more ridiculous. He basically says that as a player, he wouldn't show up to do the physical things because he already proved it in college, a minor league to the NFL. If anyone just didn't bother to show up, that could mean a lot of money surrendered if he's picked lower. It makes you more expendable if you do get off to a rocky start. And, IMO, there are very few players who would not drop from their spot if they disrespected the combine like that. Luck may have gone 1st perhaps if he declined invitation, and I think he'd decline it respectfully if he did, but I don't know. I'm sure Smith would agree that it should be a respectful declining, but his attitude of "I already showed you" seems a bit strong.

Sometimes it would be better to just show up and perform within expected scope and come out without that mark of skipping (I'm not talking about medical reasons not to compete). Choose your battles and maybe you do move up. Whether or not it's predictive, GMs do pick some higher than normal - try to win the lottery.

If the whole combine was useless as Skip says and canned, people could still evaluate and no one would up or lower their stock because of it and no one would be declining it. That's why his comment is less ridiculous, to me, than Stephan A. Smith's.

 

[BINGO]

Key questions for the combine
Teams will seek answers from Te'o, Lattimore, Barkley and more
Originally Published: February 22, 2013
By Mel Kiper Jr. | ESPN Insider

Teams will scrutinze Manti Te'o in interviews, but his time in the 40 may be equally important.

 

[BINGO]

I always hear people downplay the value of the NFL combine, but by doing that they're painting with too broad a brush. Workouts didn't matter much to Andrew Luck last year, but they matter a great deal for a player looking to get the attention of personnel folks by posting a great time. Next thing you know they're going back to the tape, and they're seeing value where they once didn't. For some players, the medical evaluation is the biggest part of the combine. For others, it's all about the interviews, and putting to rest questions teams have about off-field issues.

For other players, the combine is all about measurements, actually confirming your size. You'll see a player listed at 6-foot-4 for four years of college, and he'll leave Indy at 6-2½. You have no idea how much the measurement of a tackle's arms can change the perception among evaluators. Short arms? Could be a guard. Then you have players who are projected high based on the belief they're incredible athletes. If the numbers don't comfirm it, and the tape is just average, you have the makings of a major stock hit.

Different numbers, different themes, different priorities for different players. Here are some categories that will really matter for certain players and questions that teams will be eager to see answered.



The medicals

These players have lingering health concerns teams will want to clear.

Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia: He's No. 1 on my current Big Board, and you can be certain that means I'm not worried about how he is medically. But teams will want to confirm that for themselves. Jones was diagnosed with spinal stenosis while at USC, and teams will want to check on that. Based on what I know, he has nothing to worry about.

Marcus Lattimore, RB, South Carolina: We all know about his knee, and that this isn't his first return from a major injury. But we've seen cases like Willis McGahee before. I wouldn't be surprised if he lands in the third round, but teams still see an impact back if 100 percent.

Matt Barkley, QB, USC: He would have been the No. 4 pick to Cleveland last year. He can still be the first QB taken in this draft, but teams need to feel really good about his shoulder. Arm strength already isn't his best weapon, so that'll be an area of concern.

Keenan Allen, WR, Cal: If it was purely about getting open and catching the football, he might be the top WR available. But he can't work out in Indy as he recovers from a nagging knee problem. If he looks good in terms of his recovery, he'll stick in Round 1.



The interviews

Off-the-field issues have become a concern for these players, so team personnel will have questions.

Off-field questions will require answers from Alec Ogletree.

Alec Ogletree, LB, Georgia: He's an exceptional talent, with the skill set to be the first interior linebacker off the board, but his season started with a four-game suspension, and he has added a DUI to his list of things to be questioned about. He could fall to the late first round based on this.

Manti Te'o, LB, Notre Dame: It might not be the biggest issue -- I think his 40 time matters more -- but you can be certain teams will ask about the hoax. Book it. (Some are just curious -- really.)

Tyrann Mathieu, CB, LSU: He was never going to be a first-round pick based on questions about his cover skills, but after being booted from LSU, teams will need to know Mathieu has turned his life around. If they're convinced, he could go in the third round. If not, who knows.

Tyler Bray, QB, Tennessee: Teams have character concerns. He needs to prove those are unfounded. He's a quarterback, and more is expected in terms of intangibles.



The burners

If a lot of your reputation is based on speed, you want to confirm that speed is real.

Marquise Goodwin, WR, Texas: The Texas wideout can fly, and if he lands in the mid-4.3 range, he'll get a boost. You have to expect it given his world-class track credentials.

Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia: He could land in Round 1 based on current projections. If he's among the fastest guys in Indy, I wouldn't put the teens out of the question.

Kenjon Barner, RB, Oregon: If he shows off sprinter's speed, an early second-round selection is a possibility. (And I think he's underrated as a patient back who runs through arm tackles.)



The critical 40s

How they run will have a major impact on where they are drafted.

Johnthan Banks, CB, Mississippi State: A bigger corner, he'll garner somewhat unfair comparisons to a player like Richard Sherman because of his length. But if he wows with speed and in agility drills, he could lock himself into first-round range.

Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington: He was great during Senior Bowl week, but can't go in the first round unless he confirms his wheels. Needs to be in the 4.4 range.

Quinton Patton: A receiver from Louisiana Tech, Patton could move into consideration to be the No. 2 WR off the board, but his 40 will be a huge part of that. I love his ability to separate, but he has few games against elite competition.

Manti Te'o, LB, Notre Dame: Teams don't know how fast he is in a straight line. Simple as that.



The tight end hierarchy

Which one will go first in a league that's tight end-obsessed?

Tyler Eifert might be the top TE off the board.


Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame: Strong hands, and the type you can split out. A perpetual matchup problem. Strength and speed are the questions. Can he block?

Zach Ertz, TE, Stanford: The most complete tight end in the draft, he's a great route runner and can really snatch the ball, but he needs to confirm speed. If he's in the 4.5 range, he could be the first TE taken.

Jordan Reed, TE, Florida: The Florida product is on the smaller side, at under 240 pounds, but if he can fly -- say, sub-4.5 -- teams will see another Aaron Hernandez, a guy with whom you can split out and create matchup headaches. A late-first sleeper if he puts up a great time.



The glorious guards

No true guard has gone in the top 10 since 1997; could we have two?

Chance Warmack, G, Alabama: Warmack is the definition of dominant in the run game. Stick him at right guard and watch the Pro Bowls pile up. A legit threat to go inside the top eight, which is remarkable.

Jonathan Cooper, G, North Carolina: Nimble put powerful, he's a fit at left guard, where he can pull, screen and block for run or pass with the best of them. Could go inside the top 10, but more likely top 15.



The QB question

One of these guys is going to fly up the board; need dictates it.

Will NFL teams at the top of the draft embrace Geno Smith?

Matt Barkley, QB, USC: How is his shoulder? Was the dip in performance in 2012 a setback or more of a statistical mirage? Is there another level he can get to, or does he have a lower ceiling, given how many reps we've already seen? He can't work out, but these are questions he'll need to answer. Where Barkley can crush is at the white board. That's an area coaches really take into account.

Geno Smith, QB, West Virginia: The one quarterback I could see as a conceivable pick at No. 1, but he needs to have a sterling throwing session and absolutely crush his interviews. Love the ball placement, but does he have enough arm strength, and can he show he was more than a system guy? It's not rare for a Dana Holgorsen offense to put up major totals. Also, what happened when the defenses got better? Questions to be answered.

Mike Glennon, QB, NC State: Will challenge Bray for best arm strength in the draft, but can he be more accurate? I thought he got hurt by drops this season, but he was pretty average at the Senior Bowl. First round is a possibility, but he needs to show off some accuracy.

Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas: Loved his junior year, the senior year tape set him back. Wilson is interesting because there are teams that believe he can start early, but the ceiling is a question.

Ryan Nassib, QB, Syracuse: A lot of teams love the arm, and I can see him going in the second round, but he needs to have a good throwing session and show that he can throw all types of passes. That's a question.



The freaks

Guys with reps as freak athletes need to prove it, because teams assumed they were.

Ezekiel Ansah, OLB, BYU: The former track star has great speed for his size (over 270 pounds), but needs to show it because he plays an unrefined game. Teams will want him in part because the raw athleticism is significant.

Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee: Likely the top WR taken, but that's if he confirms he can run and jump as fast and as high as we believe he will.

D.J. Fluker, T, Alabama: Freakish size and arm length. How well can he move? Does he convince any teams he's more than a right tackle?

Dion Jordan, OLB, Oregon: Speed matters for those who see him as an OLB. I'm one of those.

Barkevious Mingo, DE, LSU: Lacked production, but gets by because evaluators love the raw skills. He needs to show he can really move to get people looking past his low sack totals.

Margus Hunt, DE, SMU: Expected to be a freak in workouts, he'd better be because the production is just OK.


Mel Kiper Jr.
Football analyst

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Aboushi = 17

Fluker = 21

Those are shocking to me.

 

[uncfan103]

Skip thinks the combine is "useless". Stephen A. doesn't think speed matters based on his comment. Those guys a funny. What they are both basically saying is that the combine is not a good enough evaluation tool (worthless). They are crazy!

The combine is not "useless" for draft analysts and scouts, but the numbers put up are not extremely important. Based on what i have read from "analysts" on twitter the combine is important because of the interviews and players performances "reinforce" their grades. Most of them say they have their evaluations done and that the combine can maybe help them decide between two players but it doesn't greatly affect anything.

Here is a long discussion on twitter if you would like to read:
[MEDIA=twitter]303225961070084096[/MEDIA]

 

[ChrisPozz]

Aboushi = 17

Fluker = 21

Those are shocking to me.

Fluker had a 36 3/4 inch arm measurement, the largest in Indy. Only Rogers Gaines and I suppose you could say Jamaal Johnson-Webb's arms were even close to his.

 

[MHSL82]

Skip thinks the combine is "useless". Stephen A. doesn't think speed matters based on his comment. Those guys a funny. What they are both basically saying is that the combine is not a good enough evaluation tool (worthless). They are crazy!

Haha, it's useless for Skip because Skip doesn't care about facts or anything, he just makes up his mind on random players and makes excuses for them if it doesn't work or downplay them if they do play well when he predicted otherwise. So Skip is right, it's useless for him. For people actually making decisions? Useful, of course.

 

[MHSL82]

OT: Oh my goodness. The discussion about Danica at the Dayton 500 is horribly bad as well! Wow!

I won't say more because this is the combine thread not the First Take thread (they want people to talk about it, watch it, and ridiculousness helps that), but Cari Champion said that it's not Danica's fault that she's attractive and if she capitalizes on it, that's America.

No one blames her for capitalizing on it, but when she gets upset that, without winning, that people just look at her for her looks, when she is the one doing the darn commercials and ads that are focused on her "assets" and looks, it's cry me a river. She wasn't in commercials like Jeff Gordon was, she was in goDaddy commercials. That comes with the territory of publicizing yourself, that's part of the pay. You can refuse the money or you can win, when you do one of those, you have a point.

I respect her as a competitor, she's actually good at racing, just when you put yourself in a certain situation, you have to look at both the costs and the benefits.

 

[uncfan103]

Also, I think everyone can agree the combine is important because of the interviews, measurements and weigh-ins, and medical tests. But, for a majority of the athletes the actual performance isn't all that important.

 

[Bemular]

Both. The only idea that I could get beyond is Skip's thought that you need to watch games (I hate when FANS call it "tape" or "film"). Except he said that's ALL he cares about.

Get beyond or get behind? Skip is correct from strictly an athletic perspective but that is hardly the only perspective that needs consideration. The combine does play a strategic if not a critical role in the decision making process.

As for your loathing the use of the terms "Film" or "Tape" by fans I share your sentiment to a point but only because of what the terms imply. I've been using the term "film" for over a decade. In my world the terms "film" ("tape") & "game" mean two different things.