NFL in trouble...

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

While I'm not a Steve Young fan, he has said in the past that the NFL is unstoppable. He now said if this keeps up the NFL could be in jeopardy. I want to start by saying the vast majority of NFL players are good solid citizens. However, the list of serious and appalling charges are growing. Below is the list from the last calendar year and only includes domestic violence, murder, and child abuse.

Hernandez
Jefferson
Hardy
Rice
Enunwa
Peterson
McDonald
Dwyer
Maybe a cover up in the NFL office
and probably forgetting some.

Of course just like in regular society how many go unreported in the NFL? Are we just scratching the surface?

We can argue all day about due process but I don't blame these teams for cutting these guys or putting them on a exempt list. It's a privilege not a right to work or play in the NFL. If a team thinks a player is PR liability they can get rid of them just like if they stunk on the field. Unlike a court of law NFL teams can use common sense to punish a player, it doesn't have to be beyond a reasonable doubt. Take a fortune 100 company for instance. If the face of their organization is charged with murder and beats his wife and / or kids, and it came out publicly, they would be out so fast it wouldn't be funny.

I'm really appalled by these idiot "fans" that want these guys to play for their team anyway. I can get into a societal discussion here and what the heck is wrong with people but I digress.

I'm really sick of this stuff. I've been a huge fan of the NFL, a season ticket holder for 31 years and it really is starting to take some of the fun out of it for me.

How do you feel?

 

[cdumler7]

I'm tired of the NFL not being about football lately. I'm tired of these idiots going out and doing this crap and even having some of them act like it is not a big deal. At the same time my thought is what did you expect? These guys are paid to hit people for a living. The idea that then to expect them to go home and turn that off is unrealistic for them all to do it. Throw in many of these players grew up in impoverished areas with lots of gang activity so violence has always been a part of their lives. Not trying to make excuses for these players just giving a picture of why these kind of guys are in the league.


The NFL needs to do a better job of day one educating these guys about these things. They might have grown up in an abusive home but the NFL needs to let them know day 1 that this will not fly in the NFL for them to continue along those lines. I would say I would open up counseling for these guys especially as rookies to voice some of these dark images that have happened in their lives with trained professionals. Telling them not to do it just won't cut it. The NFL needs to get more proactive in handling these issues or these kind of things are just going to continue.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

At the same time my thought is what did you expect? These guys are paid to hit people for a living.
The idea that then to expect them to go home and turn that off is unrealistic for them all to do it.

Good post cd but I somewhat disagree with one point. I know you said "all" and not painting every player with the same brush, but this is part of my point, people that have the thought process that because you play a violent sport you're a thug off the field can really damage the NFL. The vast majority of NFL players don't beat their kids, wives, or get into fights because they play football. I played for over 20 years and was very aggressive on the field but never even thought about hitting my wife or kids. I do think the numbers are probably right in line with the national average but perception is reality. In other words I don't think that because you play football you are violent off the field, there is a very good chance that these guys would have done this football or not.
IMO you fix it by having a zero tolerance policy. If you have solid evidence that a player committed one of these crimes you put him on the exempt list even before his day in court. If he's found guilty he's out.

This is very much a case where a few can ruin it for the many due to the seriousness of what the idiots are doing. When you have Anheuser Busch barking at you and they throw 2 billion a year your way, you better listen.

 

[cdumler7]

I agree to a point HOF-Elway-7...I do agree that a majority of these players know how to shut it down when they leave the field. They go home and have normal lives like you and me and never think twice about abusing their spouses or children. The issue in the NFL though is a lot of these kids are coming from bad homes where maybe they were abused or someone in the home was. This is all they have known. This is why kids that are abused in many cases then becomes abusers themselves later in life. This is why I recommended that they have mandatory counseling for these players as rookies to head off some of these issues before they even begin. Show the players you are trying to help them. I would also establish with them what is and is not allowed. Such as my wife did child protection for a few years and she had to have talks with the parents about what is allowed by the state for child discipline. The parents many times did not know that say beating a kid with a wooden rod that would leave welts on the child could be considered abuse. Inform these guys of what is legally allowed as my guess is not many of them even know.


I am a proactive type person when it comes to things so that is why I would think the NFL needs to try and get ahead of this. Otherwise this is just the beginning. You can try and keep kicking these guys out of the league (which I agree of the no tolerance rule) but all that means is then you have the next wave of players coming in the next year with the same issues. It isn't actually dealing with the issue. It is just pushing it off for a bit hoping it will go away.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

I agree to a point HOF-Elway-7...I do agree that a majority of these players know how to shut it down when they leave the field. They go home and have normal lives like you and me and never think twice about abusing their spouses or children. The issue in the NFL though is a lot of these kids are coming from bad homes where maybe they were abused or someone in the home was. This is all they have known. This is why kids that are abused in many cases then becomes abusers themselves later in life. This is why I recommended that they have mandatory counseling for these players as rookies to head off some of these issues before they even begin. Show the players you are trying to help them. I would also establish with them what is and is not allowed. Such as my wife did child protection for a few years and she had to have talks with the parents about what is allowed by the state for child discipline. The parents many times did not know that say beating a kid with a wooden rod that would leave welts on the child could be considered abuse. Inform these guys of what is legally allowed as my guess is not many of them even know.


I am a proactive type person when it comes to things so that is why I would think the NFL needs to try and get ahead of this. Otherwise this is just the beginning. You can try and keep kicking these guys out of the league (which I agree of the no tolerance rule) but all that means is then you have the next wave of players coming in the next year with the same issues. It isn't actually dealing with the issue. It is just pushing it off for a bit hoping it will go away.

I agree with a lot of what you say and I think for the most part we're on the same page. But I do think there are two different points here. I don't think it's the responsibility for the NFL to rehab someone. They're a business and you can work for that business if you can play at that level and you stay within the rules. It's up to the justice system to try to rehab those people.

 

[cdumler7]

I guess I view it as the NFL protecting its investment. It is good for both the player and the NFL to have guys like Adrian Peterson on the field without all of these charges being brought up against him. He is a big time player that if the NFL has to move on without him will be a huge loss in profits. This is why I can see why it would be important for the NFL to get involved. It just is good all around for everybody.


Also the NFL would not be the first job to try and work on the wellbeing of the workforce. Businesses are figuring out very quickly that if they want to have the best workforce possible they have to invest in them beyond just hiring them. Such as you have places now that have daily yoga breaks and have trained counselors on staff for any employee needing to talk to someone. The NFL has some of this already going on but I think they just need to expand it. Again it is about protecting not only the shield but their investment.


I guess the best way to think about it is what is better for a community to invest in...A community center for at risk teens or that of adding onto a prison. I think the court system would much rather have somebody invest in these guys and see if they can set them straight before they ever have to set foot in a courtroom. It saves the state money while also adding to the NFL.

 

[Broncos6482]

The NFL needs to be more proactive when dealing with these kinds of things. That starts with the teams themselves and works it's way up to the league. You're right that the NFL should have a zero tolerance policy with these kinds of things. I think the first thing that should happen is if you're arrested for anything, the team should immediately deactivate the player until the case is sorted out. This would force the player to expedite the process as quickly as possible, when usually they do the opposite and try to drag it out as long as possible (especially so they can get to the offseason).

Then once it's played out in the legal system, then the NFL can take whatever action would be appropriate. More minor things could even be as simple as a fine, whereas someone like Hardy, Peterson, or Rice would face a lengthy suspension. And the teams at that point need to be encouraged to step up and cut players like that. If teams do take on players that have been convicted of crimes, depending on the severity I think the NFL should fine those teams or even take away draft picks. You want to fill your team with shady characters? Fine, but it will cost you dearly.

They all need to show that, like you said, playing in the NFL is a privilege and not a right.

 

[Broncos6482]

One other note: I read this morning that the arrest rate of NFL players is either the same or slightly lower than the national average. I don't think the violence of the sport is the problem, it's just that, like society, it's got people who are evil/drunk/stupid and do bad things. You just hear about it because it's the NFL, but when your neighbor punches his wife, that might not even make the news.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

Forgot one thing. If it's important enough for a individual to play in the NFL they will comply with all the NFL rules whether it's drugs or something much worse and prioritize accordingly. If they genuinely have a mental issue the NFL won't be the most appropriate place to get that counseling anyway.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

I guess I view it as the NFL protecting its investment. It is good for both the player and the NFL to have guys like Adrian Peterson on the field without all of these charges being brought up against him. He is a big time player that if the NFL has to move on without him will be a huge loss in profits. This is why I can see why it would be important for the NFL to get involved. It just is good all around for everybody.

First AP does have charges filed and he was arrested.

But therein lies the problem. There have been lesser players that have been kicked out of the league for lesser offenses. It can be and construed that if you're a star you can get away with bad behavior with some counseling and the rich (either talent or money) will in large part get away with it. I would also disagree with the negative impact on the NFL if Peterson gets kicked out. You already see companies like The Radisson jumping ship and AB having serious concerns. Therefore, I can see keeping any player even with the stature of AP potentially being more detrimental to teams and the NFL then kicking them out.

 

[cdumler7]

What I am talking about is not getting them counseling after they have done the deed. I am talking about as rookies coming into the league make it mandatory for them to sit down with a counselor and talk through the issues of abuse, alcohol and drug addiction or really any addiction, any kind of sexual issue, and just a long list and just see their thoughts on the issues. Just like with Adrian Peterson he thought what he did was just fine and not abuse. He had that happen to him as a child so he thought it was fine to do to a child. Say somebody sat down with him when he was a rookie and heard him talk about his childhood and then voiced that doing that to a child now adays is considered abuse.


This is where I would also bring in Child Protective Workers, Lawyers, Abuse Counselors, and a long list of people to really sit down with these players and explain what by the letter of the law is allowed so they understand very clearly what the line is.


Again this is trying to be proactive in the situation and it is getting everybody on the same page from day 1. This is also where you explain the no tolerance policy if any of these things do happen. I also agree on the a player should be suspended until the legal issues are cleaned up. Too many players can push this stuff off until the off season and it never interferes with their careers so there is very little penalty for what they do.


I would also make it to where NFL teams that have players on a consistent basis end up losing draft picks or Cap Space. Say the team with the most arrests at the end of the year losing a 2nd round pick or something. This encourages teams to not bring in the troubled players or at least work hard to keep them out of trouble. I hate the idea of these guys having their hands held completely through their career but then again some of these kids were lucky to have $5 to their name before the NFL and now are given millions of dollars and told to be responsible. I do think the NFL needs some accountability in all of this as well.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

What I am talking about is not getting them counseling after they have done the deed. I am talking about as rookies coming into the league make it mandatory for them to sit down with a counselor and talk through the issues of abuse, alcohol and drug addiction or really any addiction, any kind of sexual issue, and just a long list and just see their thoughts on the issues. Just like with Adrian Peterson he thought what he did was just fine and not abuse. He had that happen to him as a child so he thought it was fine to do to a child. Say somebody sat down with him when he was a rookie and heard him talk about his childhood and then voiced that doing that to a child now adays is considered abuse.


This is where I would also bring in Child Protective Workers, Lawyers, Abuse Counselors, and a long list of people to really sit down with these players and explain what by the letter of the law is allowed so they understand very clearly what the line is.


Again this is trying to be proactive in the situation and it is getting everybody on the same page from day 1. This is also where you explain the no tolerance policy if any of these things do happen. I also agree on the a player should be suspended until the legal issues are cleaned up. Too many players can push this stuff off until the off season and it never interferes with their careers so there is very little penalty for what they do.


I would also make it to where NFL teams that have players on a consistent basis end up losing draft picks or Cap Space. Say the team with the most arrests at the end of the year losing a 2nd round pick or something. This encourages teams to not bring in the troubled players or at least work hard to keep them out of trouble. I hate the idea of these guys having their hands held completely through their career but then again some of these kids were lucky to have $5 to their name before the NFL and now are given millions of dollars and told to be responsible. I do think the NFL needs some accountability in all of this as well.

I completely agree with the last paragraph but couldn't disagree more with the rest. Basically sentencing all incoming players (most of whom would never commit these crimes) to a mandatory counseling session is a very slippery slope. Not sure you can legally tell a perspective employee that they have to sit down with a counselor before they're hired.

My thoughts are that if you have a zero tolerance policy it's up to the player to adhere to the rules. As they say, ignorance is no excuse. You're kind of making my point. If a guy like Rice and / or AP get kicked out (not as examples but rather the right thing to do) other players will certainly learn from it or not have a job in the NFL if they do these crimes. You simply can't sit every player down and explain every law especially simple common sense stuff. Bottom line to me is that you should know smacking a little kid until he had multiple cuts and bruises is wrong. BTW he was just short of arrested last year for disciplining a child "his way" and he "didn't know" after that scrape with the law, he's either lying or dumb as a rock....

 

[cdumler7]

I completely agree with the last paragraph but couldn't disagree more with the rest. Basically sentencing all incoming players (most of whom would never commit these crimes) to a mandatory counseling session is a very slippery slope. Not sure you can legally tell a perspective employee that they have to sit down with a counselor before they're hired.

My thoughts are that if you have a zero tolerance policy it's up to the player to adhere to the rules. As they say, ignorance is no excuse. You're kind of making my point. If a guy like Rice and / or AP get kicked out (not as examples but rather the right thing to do) other players will certainly learn from it or not have a job in the NFL if they do these crimes. You simply can't sit every player down and explain every law especially simple common sense stuff. Bottom line to me is that you should know smacking a little kid until he had multiple cuts and bruises is wrong. BTW he was just short of arrested last year for disciplining a child "his way" and he "didn't know" after that scrape with the law, he's either lying or dumb as a rock....

Ok you are right mandatory counseling is probably a bit too far. I do think however they can offer more help at the Rookie Symposium than they do for these players. Yes the players being suspended and possibly having their career cut short will send a pretty darn good message but at the same time offering nothing to help them figure out how to deal with their issues is just not going to cut it. It is like somebody trying to cut say smoking cold turkey. Yes there are some who can do that but a majority go back to what they know. Say you have an NFL player who comes into the league with a drinking problem. Telling him fix your problem or you are out of the league isn't helping him too much. Give him some avenues to explore to help with it. Just like they offer up a cab service for players why not offer up a professional counselor (if you haven't caught on I am a counselor as is my wife so helping people through these issues is probably a little too close to home) or at least some kind of service to actually help them deal with the root of the issue.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

From Steve Smith,
You know its not that hard get!!!! Keep your damn hands off women!!!! God made women for you to Lean on them Not beat on them.

Darnell Docket,
I swear people don't know how lucky to be able to "play" in the NFL. Doing all types of dumb $@#* & here I am willing to do anything 2play!

 

[cdumler7]

And see this is why it truly only affects a handful of people. That is why I backed off making it mandatory as 95% of these players know where the line is on most issues. It is the minority that is ruining it for the majority. Still I think it would be great to at least offer that minority an opportunity to learn and grow into a better human being. I also do think the Rookie Symposium should include those people I listed to come speak to these players. If for nothing else then the NFL can say yes we educated these players on these issues and when they screw up have no backlash from players saying they didn't know. It is a protection for the NFL and a great opportunity to get as much information in the hands of the players so they can make some sound choices.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

Ok you are right mandatory counseling is probably a bit too far. I do think however they can offer more help at the Rookie Symposium than they do for these players. Yes the players being suspended and possibly having their career cut short will send a pretty darn good message but at the same time offering nothing to help them figure out how to deal with their issues is just not going to cut it. It is like somebody trying to cut say smoking cold turkey. Yes there are some who can do that but a majority go back to what they know. Say you have an NFL player who comes into the league with a drinking problem. Telling him fix your problem or you are out of the league isn't helping him too much. Give him some avenues to explore to help with it. Just like they offer up a cab service for players why not offer up a professional counselor (if you haven't caught on I am a counselor as is my wife so helping people through these issues is probably a little too close to home) or at least some kind of service to actually help them deal with the root of the issue.

You and are on the same page as I said with the exception of what in the NFL and teams roll in this. If they want to do PSA's and other community outreach, I think that would be great. I think zero tolerance will teach lessons to incoming players but not a lot outside of their perspective buildings. If I owned a NFL team I would be a players owner but if any of my players were involved with physical abuse, homicide ETC they would be out the door no matter the name on the back. They could get their treatment elsewhere, court ordered or otherwise and it's pretty apparent that a lot of the major sponsors feel that way too.

I agree with drinking and non violent crimes, to me it's not apples to apples though (you can drink yourself stupid as a NFL player as long as you don't break the law) you can never legally hit a women or child. Not saying that you mean to say they're the same but it's the example you used.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

There is one more very important element to the AP story. By most accounts he was extremely lucky to dodge charges last year for the same thing. What if you're the Vikings (or another NFL team) and you take a chance on AP after completion of treatment and he does it again. You're going to get a lot of grief for the signing but you will get hammered when he does it again. I believe the recidivism rate for DV and child abuse offenders is over 50%.