NFL Hall of Fame Finalist

[soxfan1468927]

He pretty much destroyed the Eagles in 2005. Bill Parcells, himself a Hall of Famer, wanted nothing to do with TO and famously referred to him as "the player." Philadelphia went from 6-10 with Owens to 10-6 without him. Dallas went from 9-7 with Owens to 11-5 without him. Cincinnati went from 4-12 with Owens to 9-7 without him. Three teams immediately improved on their record by dumping Owens.

Owens was great. He was also more trouble than he was worth.

That 2005 Eagles team also had Mike McMahon starting almost half their games. They also went 4-3 with him playing, and 2-7 when he didn't. And the Cowboys improved because their defense went from 20th to 2nd in points allowed per game.

Was there anything about disruption in the Bengals locker room that hurt the team? Because Palmer lobbied for them to sign Owens.

Correlation is not necessarily causation.

 

[Clayton]

He pretty much destroyed the Eagles in 2005. Bill Parcells, himself a Hall of Famer, wanted nothing to do with TO and famously referred to him as "the player." Philadelphia went from 6-10 with Owens to 10-6 without him. Dallas went from 9-7 with Owens to 11-5 without him. Cincinnati went from 4-12 with Owens to 9-7 without him. Three teams immediately improved on their record by dumping Owens.

Owens was great. He was also more trouble than he was worth.

Cincinnati? C'mon man.

DVOA 1997-2007: #8 in the NFL, #4 in the NFL, #42 in the NFL, #3 in the NFL, #2 in the NFL, #12 in the NFL, #32 in the NFL, #11 in the NFL, #28 in the NFL, #7 in the NFL, #2 in the NFL.

He made teams better for the most part. Much much better often.

 

[Broncos6482]

That 2005 Eagles team also had Mike McMahon starting almost half their games. They also went 4-3 with him playing, and 2-7 when he didn't. And the Cowboys improved because their defense went from 20th to 2nd in points allowed per game.

Was there anything about disruption in the Bengals locker room that hurt the team? Because Palmer lobbied for them to sign Owens.

Correlation is not necessarily causation.

Interesting, then, that they decided they were better off without him, isn't it?

 

[Broncos6482]

Cincinnati? C'mon man.

DVOA 1997-2007: #8 in the NFL, #4 in the NFL, #42 in the NFL, #3 in the NFL, #2 in the NFL, #12 in the NFL, #32 in the NFL, #11 in the NFL, #28 in the NFL, #7 in the NFL, #2 in the NFL.

He made teams better for the most part. Much much better often.

Then tell me why so many teams were happy to dump him?

 

[Clayton]

Then tell me why so many teams were happy to dump him?

Because he was f'n nuts.

Terrell Owens could've played 4 years on the Broncos with Elway and won a couple of Super Bowls, gotten injured and he would've retired a hero and we'd all be on here lobbying for him to get in. Or maybe he could've lucked his way on to the Greatest Show on Turf and won a Super Bowl or two before that team fell apart and then got traded away.

Instead he was just a crazy great player on a bunch of good but not champion teams.

 

[Tainthappening]

So question for those thinking Warner should be in...What is the difference between Warner and Davis? Both shortened careers. Both 2 Super Bowls. Both MVP. Both considered huge playmakers in the playoffs especially.

Two items that I think keeps TD out potentially:

• Very short production career... 1 good year and 3 great years. That is very short.
• Success of Denver running game after him...
  • 99 Olandis Gary 1,159 yards - 4.2 yards/carry
  • 00 Mike Anderson 1,487 yards - 5.0 yards/carry
  • 02 Clinton Portis 1,591 yards - 5.5 yards/carry

Almost appears to be a plug and play system for RBs with the OL they had and zone blocking scheme.

If he would have had those 3 years to put on his resume with those stats a no brainer.

 

[Broncos6482]

Because he was f'n nuts.

Terrell Owens could've played 4 years on the Broncos with Elway and won a couple of Super Bowls, gotten injured and he would've retired a hero and we'd all be on here lobbying for him to get in. Or maybe he could've lucked his way on to the Greatest Show on Turf and won a Super Bowl or two before that team fell apart and then got traded away.

Instead he was just a crazy great player on a bunch of good but not champion teams.

Yeah, only difference is TD was actually a team player and not a cancer like TO was.

 

[VikingFan2k2]

Warner, Owens, LT.... I'd probably vote for Morten myself but I know some hate kickers

Morten gave me the worst moment of my teenage years and even I think he should get in.

 

[Clayton]

Yeah, only difference is TD was actually a team player and not a cancer like TO was.

For all we know the only thing that kept Richard Sherman from being a cancer was being on a championship level team.

I think its apparent that TO isnt going to get in if he doesnt make it in this year but its going to put a huge barrier for every other WR to cross.

 

[Broncos6482]

Two items that I think keeps TD out potentially:

• Very short production career... 1 good year and 3 great years. That is very short.
• Success of Denver running game after him...
  • 99 Olandis Gary 1,159 yards - 4.2 yards/carry
  • 00 Mike Anderson 1,487 yards - 5.0 yards/carry
  • 02 Clinton Portis 1,591 yards - 5.5 yards/carry

Almost appears to be a plug and play system for RBs with the OL they had and zone blocking scheme.

If he would have had those 3 years to put on his resume with those stats a no brainer.

I always liked what Mark Schlereth said about TD on TD's A Football Life. "The twelve hundred yard season Olandis had? That'd been eighteen hundred for TD. 1470 whatever it was for Mike Anderson? That'd been twenty one hundred for TD."

For all the supposed plug and play backs Denver had, TD still managed 3 of the top 4 single season rushing totals in Broncos history. Clinton Portis is the only guy who managed to crack the top 3, and his best season at 1,591 yards barely edges TD's third best season of 1,538. And Clinton Portis was no slouch, either, as he proved in Washington, where he had another 1,500 yard season in 2005 and just missed in 2008 when he finished with 1,487.

 

[Broncos6482]

For all we know the only thing that kept Richard Sherman from being a cancer was being on a championship level team.

I think its apparent that TO isnt going to get in if he doesnt make it in this year but its going to put a huge barrier for every other WR to cross.

I'm really not sure what your point is. TO was a cancer on teams even when they were winning. Richard Sherman was fine when Seattle went 7-9 his rookie season, and TD didn't cause problems when the Broncos were going 8-8 his rookie year.

 

[VikingFan2k2]

For all we know the only thing that kept Richard Sherman from being a cancer was being on a championship level team.

I think its apparent that TO isnt going to get in if he doesnt make it in this year but its going to put a huge barrier for every other WR to cross.

I don't know if I agree with the latter part. Cris Carter had to wait 6 years and Art Monk had to wait over a decade.

 

[Clayton]

I don't know if I agree with the latter part. Cris Carter had to wait 6 years and Art Monk had to wait over a decade.

I feel like those are two slightly different circumstances but its possible that TO could get in much later.

I could care less if he doesn't get in. You see guys like Larry Fitzgerald play with awful QBs and take lesser roles later in their career to benefit the team and stay on the field. TO is a guy that played with a mediocre QB for half of his career and let everyone know about it. He then spent the 2nd half of his career ruining his reputation.

But he was really good. Maybe that gets him into the Hall somewhere down the line but he had the resume to get there from year 1.

 

[rmilia1]

Morten gave me the worst moment of my teenage years and even I think he should get in.

I remember it well lol. Was doing grad school at the University, drinking purple kegs of beer and cheering on my team. It was like negative 20 out and when he hit the FG all the Vikes fans threw me outside and hosed me down with super soakers. Did not care lol

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

I'm not talking about feelings, I'm talking about teams that couldn't wait to rid themselves of him despite his prodigious accomplishments. He was such a headache, such a disaster, that multiple teams decided he wasn't worth it. And then they often got better the year after he was gone.

Dude, you are absolutely using feelings. The HOF isn't about if you were liked, it's about what you did on the field!!!! You have guys who were dirty, bad teammates, or had criminal records and made it to the HOF with no problem, but T.O. isn't liked so he doesn't belong in?

 

[VikingFan2k2]

I remember it well lol. Was doing grad school at the University, drinking purple kegs of beer and cheering on my team. It was like negative 20 out and when he hit the FG all the Vikes fans threw me outside and hosed me down with super soakers. Did not care lol

I'd have done the same thing if I was 5 years older on campus. I just ran into my room and cried.

 

[VikingFan2k2]

I feel like those are two slightly different circumstances but its possible that TO could get in much later.

I could care less if he doesn't get in. You see guys like Larry Fitzgerald play with awful QBs and take lesser roles later in their career to benefit the team and stay on the field. TO is a guy that played with a mediocre QB for half of his career and let everyone know about it. He then spent the 2nd half of his career ruining his reputation.

But he was really good. Maybe that gets him into the Hall somewhere down the line but he had the resume to get there from year 1.

Well, you are talking about one of the biggest class acts in the history of the game against one of the biggest assholes in the history of the game. Larry has always been a humble guy who is about his team since his days at Holy Angels.

I do care if TO doesn't get in and I can't stand that motherfucker. As toxic of a teammate as he was, his numbers are among the best in history and it isn't like he killed a guy like a current HOF receiver from the Colts did.

 

[Great Dayne]

In November, the list was cut to 26 candidates and, on Tuesday night, the 15 finalists for the class of 2017 were announced on NFL Network. It shouldn't come as a shock to hear that LaDainian Tomlinson headlines the list, which is pasted below, via Nola.com:

1. LaDainian Tomlinson (running back for the Chargers and Jets)
2. Brian Dawkins (safety for the Eagles and Broncos)
3. Jason Taylor (defensive end for the Dolphins, Jets, and Redskins)
4. Morten Andersen (kicker for the Saints, Falcons, Chiefs, Vikings, and Giants)
5. Kurt Warner (quarterback for the Rams, Cardinals, and Giants)
6. Don Coryell (coach of the St. Louis Cardinals and Chargers)
7. Tony Boselli (tackle for the Jaguars)
8. Isaac Bruce (receiver for the Rams and 49ers)
9. Terrell Davis (running back for the Broncos)
10. Alan Faneca (guard for the Steelers, Jets, and Cardinals)
11. Joe Jacoby (tackle for the Redskins)
12. Ty Law (cornerback for the Patriots, Jets, Chiefs, and Broncos
13. John Lynch (safety for the Buccaneers and Broncos)
14. Kevin Mawae (center and guard for the Seahawks, Jets, and Titans)
15. Terrell Owens (receiver for the 49ers, Eagles, Cowboys, Bills, and Bengals)

The 15 candidates will be considered for induction along with three other finalists who have already been named. Those three are former Seahawks safety Kenny Easley, who was selected as the Seniors Committee finalist in August, and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue -- both of
whom were named contributor finalists.

LT
Dawkins
TO
Tony
Anderson

 

[soxfan1468927]

Interesting, then, that they decided they were better off without him, isn't it?

Don't underestimate the stupidity of some teams.

 

[Broncos6482]

Dude, you are absolutely using feelings. The HOF isn't about if you were liked, it's about what you did on the field!!!! You have guys who were dirty, bad teammates, or had criminal records and made it to the HOF with no problem, but T.O. isn't liked so he doesn't belong in?

There's a difference between not being liked and being so volatile that teams decide they'd rather be without your services. That's the case with TO. Too many teams simply decided he wasn't worth the headache, and when you're talking about a player that produced like TO did, you know they're willing to put up with a lot before deciding to part ways.

So I stand by my case: if multiple teams decided to dump him because he wasn't worth the distractions, then he doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame.