Nets continue to build via bad contracts

[flyerhawk]

And really, that brings up another point.

I hate the term tanking. Nobody is losing on purpose. At least not players and coaches.

But, if you are a GM, you can't get stuck in the 35-45 win area for more than a couple years. That is the worst place to be and precisely where I think the Nets are eventually heading.

That's a different issue. I am sure that Sean Marks is not planning to be a 35-45 win team forever. I would argue that being a 20-25 win team forever is a pretty terrible place to be. Would you rather be Toronto or Sacramento?

 

[Gman]

Nice to have a quality thread with no name calling even though we may not agree with each other. Very refreshing

We don't need your extraneous commentary, cock smoker.

 

[tlance]

That's a different issue. I am sure that Sean Marks is not planning to be a 35-45 win team forever. I would argue that being a 20-25 win team forever is a pretty terrible place to be. Would you rather be Toronto or Sacramento?

Neither.

Sacramento is horribly run (up until some good moves this year). Toronto has hit their max.

That is what i am saying though. If I can't be GS or SA or Cleveland or Boston, I want to be Philly.

 

[Gman]

In all seriousness... I'll vote on the side of this course of action for the Nets:

- They should stay flexible money-wise and look to be a player in as many deals as possible with the hope of:
- Gaining draft picks
- For the near term, if they can become slightly better and get out of the bottom floor of the basement... that seems like a reasonable goal. Especially because they forfeited their upcoming premium draft choices. If and only if they don't take on any more long/bad contracts in the process. I agree that their fan base needs something, anything to keep hope alive.
- But long term, staying flexible and gaining draft picks (a la Danny Ainge and the C's) should be the aim... it'll take years... but Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[flyerhawk]

Neither.

Sacramento is horribly run (up until some good moves this year). Toronto has hit their max.

That is what i am saying though. If I can't be GS or SA or Cleveland or Boston, I want to be Philly.

If you are starting on Year 1 I would agree with you. But I would also argue that simply trying The Process without having someone like Hinkie doing the wheeling and dealing makes your chances of success problematic.

When it is all said and done, the most important thing to have is a strong GM with ownership buy-in.

 

[flyerhawk]

In all seriousness... I'll vote on the side of this course of action for the Nets:

- They should stay flexible money-wise and look to be a player in as many deals as possible with the hope of:
- Gaining draft picks
- For the near term, if they can become slightly better and get out of the bottom floor of the basement... that seems like a reasonable goal. If and only if they don't take on any more long/bad contracts in the process. I agree that their fan base needs something, anything to keep hope alive.
- But long term, staying flexible and gaining draft picks (a la Danny Ainge and the C's) should be the aim... it'll take years... but Rome wasn't built in a day.

I agree with this. Honestly I think this was a good year for them to take on bad contracts. They are minimum 3 years away from building a possible contender. By then Carroll will be gone and Crabbe/Mozgov will be expiring contracts.

 

[tlance]

In all seriousness... I'll vote on the side of this course of action for the Nets:

- They should stay flexible money-wise and look to be a player in as many deals as possible with the hope of:
- Gaining draft picks
- For the near term, if they can become slightly better and get out of the bottom floor of the basement... that seems like a reasonable goal. Especially because they forfeited their upcoming premium draft choices. If and only if they don't take on any more long/bad contracts in the process. I agree that their fan base needs something, anything to keep hope alive.
- But long term, staying flexible and gaining draft picks (a la Danny Ainge and the C's) should be the aim... it'll take years... but Rome wasn't built in a day.

Agree 100%.

I was okay with everything they did until the Crabbe trade. They sacrificed a good Deal of flexibility there, and for what exactly?

 

[tlance]

I agree with this. Honestly I think this was a good year for them to take on bad contracts. They are minimum 3 years away from building a possible contender. By then Carroll will be gone and Crabbe/Mozgov will be expiring contracts.

You and I clearly have much different definitions of what a contender is.

Toronto and Washington for example, are not contenders. Brooklyn is way more than 3 years away no matter what path they take now.

 

[Gman]

Agree 100%.

I was okay with everything they did until the Crabbe trade. They sacrificed a good Deal of flexibility there, and for what exactly?

I hear ya. I think both your side and flyer's side of the debate make sense... neither of y'all are crazy.

In the end, I think the option of 1.) staying flexible and trying to be a 3rd wheel in a potential Kyrie trade (or something similar) lost out to 2.) trying to get out of the bottom floor of the basement so Brooklyn fans have some sign of life and hope in the near term.... even if that life is extremely modest.

Option (1) above might make more sense from a detached and objective point-of-view, but option (2) might be a better fit for where a franchise like Brooklyn is right now. Either way, I don't think this one move is a huge deal... the Nets are in a bad place to be regardless... but it is interesting for us hardcores to debate about.

 

[flyerhawk]

You and I clearly have much different definitions of what a contender is.

Toronto and Washington for example, are not contenders. Brooklyn is way more than 3 years away no matter what path they take now.

I don't think they are contenders. They are both trying to be but ultimately you need to get a little lucky to be a true contender. Either by making a great trade or hitting gold on a lottery pick.

I agree that Brooklyn is likely more than 3 years away from being a true contender. My point was that they are 3 years away from even BUILDING a contender. And I don't think that a team needs to target being a 15-20 wins in order to build a contender.

 

[bksballer89]

You and I clearly have much different definitions of what a contender is.

Toronto and Washington for example, are not contenders. Brooklyn is way more than 3 years away no matter what path they take now.

This I do agree with.

 

[LogicMan]

ah the sweet sound of Brooklyn........

 

[wildturkey]

Cmon man. You don't really believe that do you? Russell and Crabbe attracting free agents?

That is nothing like the allure of Ball + Ingram + Magic + Hollywood.

In 2 to 3 years from now? It's possible, especially if Russell develops into an all star which isn't out of the question considering his age and the fact that its the East. Plus, the boom period is over. Not every team is going to have cap room every summer. It's going to go back to 3 or 4 teams with significant room each summer and everyone else capped out. Brooklyn is positioning itself to be one of those teams 2 to 3 years from now. So if you're a star free agent (or two star free agents), a move to an easier conference that has young, starter worthy (potentially all star worthy) guys already there will be appealing. Even if both settle in as solid starting caliber players, they can be used in trades to get acquire star players that might be interested in Brooklyn. Either way, they're assets, which is something Brooklyn hasn't had.

But all of that is off the table if they just decided to suck until they can draft a guy, which given their circumstances, is still years away. And even then, its no guarantee they get their guy. They could have a string of luck like Philly where it takes 4+ years to get it right. So from the time the Boston trade happened, you're looking at potentially anywhere from 10 to 15 years of being a shit team if you go with the team building route you're talking about. Yeah, you're right that they should have started this 3 years ago but that's beside the point. That was old management. Can't blame the past anymore. They have new management and are making the moves they need to make with the only tools they have.

 

[flyerhawk]

In 2 to 3 years from now? It's possible, especially if Russell develops into an all star which isn't out of the question considering his age and the fact that its the East. Plus, the boom period is over. Not every team is going to have cap room every summer. It's going to go back to 3 or 4 teams with significant room each summer and everyone else capped out. Brooklyn is positioning itself to be one of those teams 2 to 3 years from now. So if you're a star free agent (or two star free agents), a move to an easier conference that has young, starter worthy (potentially all star worthy) guys already there will be appealing. Even if both settle in as solid starting caliber players, they can be used in trades to get acquire star players that might be interested in Brooklyn. Either way, they're assets, which is something Brooklyn hasn't had.

But all of that is off the table if they just decided to suck until they can draft a guy, which given their circumstances, is still years away. And even then, its no guarantee they get their guy. They could have a string of luck like Philly where it takes 4+ years to get it right. So from the time the Boston trade happened, you're looking at potentially anywhere from 10 to 15 years of being a shit team if you go with the team building route you're talking about. Yeah, you're right that they should have started this 3 years ago but that's beside the point. That was old management. Can't blame the past anymore. They have new management and are making the moves they need to make with the only tools they have.

100% with all of this.

We all agree that following The Process is probably the best way to maximize your chances of getting an elite player. But it is still just probability. There is a very real chance that you don't get that elite talent and all that sucking was for naught.

In 3 years they can evaluate where they are decide what to do. But for the moment, there is little downside in them trying to build the more competitive team they can that doesn't involved giving up draft picks.