NCAA overstepped in USC case

[trojanfan12]

Miami was reported to have over football 50 players involved and it was with a booster right under the noses of Paul Dee and the coaches. USC got slammed because of Bush. They "self reported" after that booster got thrown in jail and started talking. You can only self report if you have the evidence because people at the school or a well known booster is involved. So yes Miami got away with it. Imagine the hammer that would have come down on USC is they would have had all that to use against them. Heck USC got in trouble because a female tennis player used a school phone card to call home. Lol. Miami lost nine scholarships. What a crock. Lol

@ nddulac thinking he had a point. He even tried to say that I said something that I didn't in order to make his "point." Gotta hand it to those Domers though. They never quit trying.

 

[nddulac]

@ nddulac thinking he had a point. He even tried to say that I said something that I didn't in order to make his "point."

I didn't say that you said anything in the post to which you are indirectly referring. But be that as it may ...

There are actually a lot of things on which (I think) we agree in terms of the Bush case. I believe you can make an argument that USC's sanctions were harsh compared to cases that, at least on the surface, appear similar. (However, my complaint is not that USC got hit too hard, but that the NCAA did not hit other programs just as hard - especially Ohio State.) We also agree that there are very serious flaws in how the NCAA has handled a number of high-profile cases. Miami is an obvious example, where the NCAA weaseled into a deposition to which they should not have had access, in order to get more information on their investigation. Perhaps a better example, is in the investigation of UCLA basketball player, Shabazz Muhammad. Unlike Miami football, UCLA basketball walked away scott free in that one due to NCAA investigative missteps. And if you want to see a case where NCAA rules were enforced according to the letter but not intent of "law", look at Cal Tech.

Anyhow, feel free to make this discussion about me personally. But if it is all the same t you, I will stick to discussing the topic. (Trust me - I'm really not that interesting.)

 

[nddulac]

They (Miami) "self reported" after that booster got thrown in jail and started talking. You can only self report if you have the evidence because people at the school or a well known booster is involved.

Miami did not "self report" the Nevin Shapiro incident. This is from that "bastion of reliable information" known as wikipedia (so take it with a grain of salt, but at least it include sources):

In August 2010, Shapiro told The Miami Herald that he was writing a book titled, The Real U: 2001 to 2010. Inside the Eye of the Hurricane in which he promised to tell how Miami had violated NCAA rules affecting more than 100 players. "Once the players turned pro, they turned their back on me. It made me feel like a used friend," he said.[5] On August 16, 2011, Yahoo! Sports writer Charles Robinson published an article based on 100 hours of jailhouse interviews with Shapiro, detailing Shapiro's allegations regarding his illegal and unethical behaviors and the lack of oversight in the University of Miami athletics department.[4][7]

[4] Robinson, Charles (August 16, 2011), Renegade Miami football booster spells out illicit benefits to players, Yahoo! Sports, retrieved August 24, 2011
[5] Elfrink, Tim (December 16, 2010), "Nevin Shapiro: Miami's Caligula", Miami New Times, retrieved August 24, 2011
[7] "Players got gifts from ex-Miami booster", ESPN, August 17, 2011, retrieved August 24, 2011

So yes Miami got away with it.

No they didn't. The lost nine scholarships, had two seasons of postseason ban, and were placed on probation for three years (in addition to other penalties, some of which were self-imposed, and others which were imposed by the NCAA.

Imagine the hammer that would have come down on USC is they would have had all that to use against them.

Or - imagine how things might have been different if USC had taken responsibility for their program and self-imposed some sanctions, rather than just hoping the NCAA wouldn't find anything or do anything about it.

The reality is that the two cases are very different in terms of the institutional responses to the violations. And therein lies the difference in the harshness of the penalties.

 

[trojanfan12]

I didn't say that you said anything in the post to which you are indirectly referring.

You sure about that? Because this...

Certainly, Miami did not get hammered as hard as they probably should have, but assume that Miami was never penalized is simply factually incorrect.

Seems an awful lot like you saying I'm assuming Miami wasn't penalized, which I never said or alluded to.

 

[nddulac]

You sure about that? Because this...

... but assume that Miami was never penalized is simply factually incorrect.

Seems an awful lot like you saying I'm assuming Miami wasn't penalized, which I never said or alluded to.

To draw that conclusion would be no larger a stretch than to conclude that

... the NCAA really had no choice but to slink away with their tail tucked between their legs.

indicates that you believe that Miami suffered no penalties.

So I would call it a stalemate.

 

[trojanfan12]

To draw that conclusion would be no larger a stretch than to conclude that

indicates that you believe that Miami suffered no penalties.

So I would call it a stalemate.

No, I said that the NCAA had to slink away with it's tail between it's legs which is exactly what happened. Unless of course you think that all the punishment Miami was ever going to receive was a couple of seasons with no bowl games and 9 lost schollies.

The NCAA was looking to nail Miami at least as bad as USC, but then the news came out about how they were conducting their investigation and they had to go away.

 

[socaljim242]

Miami did not "self report" the Nevin Shapiro incident. This is from that "bastion of reliable information" known as wikipedia (so take it with a grain of salt, but at least it include sources):




No they didn't. The lost nine scholarships, had two seasons of postseason ban, and were placed on probation for three years (in addition to other penalties, some of which were self-imposed, and others which were imposed by the NCAA.


Or - imagine how things might have been different if USC had taken responsibility for their program and self-imposed some sanctions, rather than just hoping the NCAA wouldn't find anything or do anything about it.

The reality is that the two cases are very different in terms of the institutional responses to the violations. And therein lies the difference in the harshness of the penalties.

After five years of digging the NCAA found that USC had no coached involved in the dealings. Now that the e mails have come out even they knew that and the head coach was never shown to have known or been involved . USC had no booster involved. So USC obviously found out Bush and his parents were on the take and awaited the penalties. USC didn't have multiple players involved like these other schools USC didnt have boosters involved like these other schools USC didnt have e mails from their head coach lying to the NCAA so players could play in a bowl game. So why would USC need to penalize its self when it didnt have these issues and the paper trails?In what universe do you think the NCAA would have been easier on USC if they would have given themselves a one or two year bowl ban and given up 10 scholarships??

No one said Miami didnt get anything. Why do you keep saying that? they lost nine scholarships and two year bowl ban compared to USC losing 30.. When it was known that the illegal stuff was going on for at least eight years and had between 50-70 players involved and a booster who was all over campus the stadium the team . When you see what USC got compared to Miami it is like they got away with it. But that doesn't mean we said they didnt get anything. As far as this notion that Miami somehow deserved less because they said opps my bad is ridiculous. Miami had had conservatively 50 players going back eighth years involved and a major booster and they get less because they sad my bad ,knowing they got caught and USC who just said we didn't know and we weren't involved any they get hit worse for one football player? Just plain stupid and ridiculous. You keep trying to justify the inequity of the punishment and you must be the last guy thinking that the NZAA did things on the up and up.

 

[nddulac]

The NCAA was looking to nail Miami at least as bad as USC, but then the news came out about how they were conducting their investigation and they had to go away.

Oh yeah? well ...

I actually agree with that.

 

[nddulac]

You keep trying to justify the inequity of the punishment and you must be the last guy thinking that the NZAA did things on the up and up.

I actually don't. For some reason, you seem to think that because I think other schools should have been treated as harshly as USC was, it means I think it is okay that they weren't. I find it - perplexing.

 

[socaljim242]

I actually don't. For some reason, you seem to think that because I think other schools should have been treated as harshly as USC was, it means I think it is okay that they weren't. I find it - perplexing.

I actually don't. For some reason, you seem to think that because I think other schools should have been treated as harshly as USC was, it means I think it is okay that they weren't. I find it - perplexing.

First of all I'm not saying Oregon, Ohio, State ,UNC, and others to be should have been penalized more. I've just stated most if not all had worse transgressions where either coaches were actively involved or boosters of the school were culprits so in comparison USC should not have been penalized so harshly. You've said you believe USC didn't cooperate that they were actively obstructing that McNair lied . So you come to this with lies and untruths.If you believe those programs should have been penalized more than they were thats fine and up to you. I'm just stating USC shouldn't have been sanctioned like they were.