NBA West Playoff Game 6 : Mebert vs Shane

[tlance]

I asked Nos how current players were evaluated, and that is what he told me. You can't project future performance for a guy like KAT, but an elite player today is worth as much as an elite player from 20 years ago. Does not make sense to punish a guy because his career is not over. Klay is elite.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Say what you will, but KAT and Lillard were bigger reaches, IMO.

By the way, despite drafting Klay's skill a little early, I still managed to get 5 HOF players on my team so it isn't like I was loading up on all young guys.

I think they were all reaches.

But KAT is at least a legitamate HOF projection as long as we are allowed to assume guys stay healthy for their careers of course.

But yeah, if everyone valued guys correctly I probably wouldn't even have considered Lillard til round 8. But he required zero research and fell in line with the rest of the reaches and I was free to watch playoff hockey!!!

 

[Shanemansj13]

No. I think players who have only played a few years in the league get way too much love in these exercises. Hell, look where Klay Thompson was drafted in this mock. In the 2nd round... before James Worthy and Bob Pettit. Damian Lillard was drafted before Bill Walton and Chris Webber and Chris Mullin. I mean, when all is said and done, these guys MAY prove to be worth it. But you can't say that now. Wasn't it in one of our NFL mocks where someone said ODB was a definite HOFer? How can anyone say that after 2 years?

I used to love it, thinking that it meant a better player would fall to me. Now, I realize that the same people who are drafting this way are the ones voting. And they've never heard of Earl Monroe, so they think Klay Thompson must be better. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I'm not far off. Just today, someone said they would take Hakeem and Anthony Davis over Wilt and Pettit. Now, Hakeem was great and AD may go down as one of the best of all time. But you can't just automatically give him 15 years of elite play like it seems so many people are doing. In this exercise Bob Pettit wipes the floor with Anthony Davis, then takes him into the locker room and wipes his ass with him. But this is only one man's opinion.

Klay is a very good defender and an all-time great shooter already. I dont see that being a reach. He has the athleticism and scoring ability of a great.

Players nowadays have more competition than back in the day, especially 50's and 60's. 70's, 80's and 90's and soon is where the athleticism and competition increased. That being said some guys back in the day it is hard to compare to nowadays bc they were the most athletic but had the skills. It is really hard to evaluate honestly.

And who is to say Klay wont be better than Monroe. I dont see your logic? Klay is probably already a better defender, a better shooter and he can score from anywhere. Just bc a guy isnt in the HOF doesnt mean he wont be better when his career ends. Like I said it is hard to evaluate but you have to think outside the box.

Petit wipes AD's ass??? Are you serious. His numbers look great but you actually put him on the floor against AD and AD wins easy. But you cant compare then like that bc like I said again today is different. Players are different, the game is different. The athleticism is crazy now. AD has not one weakness, can you say the same about Petit?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Apparently, we dont even know how we are voting teams now lol.

Ohh well. I just want to be clear how we are voting again bc it seems nobody actually knows. Especially the aspect of current to former players. Mainly current elite to great players that are still young in the current league.

 

[femurov]

I asked Nos how current players were evaluated, and that is what he told me. You can't project future performance for a guy like KAT, but an elite player today is worth as much as an elite player from 20 years ago. Does not make sense to punish a guy because his career is not over. Klay is elite.

There's that word. I think it has more meanings than any other word in the English language if you talk to sports fans.

 

[femurov]

And who is to say Klay wont be better than Monroe. I dont see your logic? Klay is probably already a better defender, a better shooter and he can score from anywhere. Just bc a guy isnt in the HOF doesnt mean he wont be better when his career ends. Like I said it is hard to evaluate but you have to think outside the box.

Klay may very well end up being better than Monroe. Hell, he may be better than Jordan when all is said and done. But in an All Time Draft, I feel like you can't project what is going to happen. So, you have to take it as these guys are retiring right now. And Klay Thompson is a two time All Star who never sniffed an MVP, nor was named to an All NBA team (overall or defensive) unless he gets named this year. And he has a ring. I drafted Jeff Mullins 1 spot before "Mr. Irrelevant". Mullins has been to 3 All Star games and a ring and during his peak years, he put up a similar scoring average with more assists and rebounds per game.

The way we vote is not universal. Everyone has their own things that they look at. Some people think like I do. Some people do project the current guys and try to convince others that they will be HOFers. Some people add up the players social security numbers or something... seriously, I don't know what they are thinking when they vote. This is what I am having trouble with in these votes. I just don't get how people can think certain teams are better than others. But you have to adapt and figure it out, which is what we are constantly trying to accomplish.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Apparently, we dont even know how we are voting teams now lol.

Ohh well. I just want to be clear how we are voting again bc it seems nobody actually knows. Especially the aspect of current to former players. Mainly current elite to great players that are still young in the current league.

This is the key. We can't really force rules telling people how to vote but we need to have some sort of guidelines and I always go back to consistency.

There are very few people that I can speculate which team they are gonna vote for because it seems criteria changes every draft.

UK, Nos and Milk(even though he's got some out there views lol) are a few of the ones I almost always know how they will vote.

 

[tlance]

There's that word. I think it has more meanings than any other word in the English language if you talk to sports fans.

Top 5 shooter all time. Completely shut down Westbrook in game 1, then shut down Ibaka in game 2. How many players are capable of that?

As for HOF, he has already won a title, has 2 of the top 11 3 point shooting seasons of all time, made 3rd team all NBA last year and was the second best player on a 73 win team. I am sure Klay will be on an all NBA team this year too. My guess is second team. If that ain't a projectable HOF track, I don't know what is.

Worthy made 3rd team all NBA exactly once in his career and never finished higher. He was very good, but like Klay benefitted from playing on some great teams.

If Klay has 3 more seasons like the last two before he starts declining, he is a shoe in for the hall of fame. If the Dubs build a dynasty, he is the Pippen to Curry's Jordan.

I know, a lot of Ifs. Still though, Klay is a freak of a player. I don't think there is anybody in the history of the league quite like him with the shooting/defense combo.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

There's that word. I think it has more meanings than any other word in the English language if you talk to sports fans.

So true lol.

I have a buddy who referred to Lester as a "God" and Curtis Granderson as a "star"

Doesn't leave much labeling for all the players that are actually better than those guys.

 

[tlance]

Honestly though, I would not have taken Klay where I did if not for the run of current players.

I do feel like he is every bit as valuable as A player like Kawhi though. If he is your second or third option, you are doing good things. His shooting does so much to open the floor for other players. I think some may be underestimating the impact that these shooters have. Teams are really just now learning he the full power of the 3 point line. Because there are so few players like Klay, he is an extremely rare asset.

 

[femurov]

Top 5 shooter all time. Completely shut down Westbrook in game 1, then shut down Ibaka in game 2. How many players are capable of that?

As for HOF, he has already won a title, has 2 of the top 11 3 point shooting seasons of all time, made 3rd team all NBA last year and was the second best player on a 73 win team. I am sure Klay will be on an all NBA team this year too. My guess is second team. If that ain't a projectable HOF track, I don't know what is.

Worthy made 3rd team all NBA exactly once in his career and never finished higher. He was very good, but like Klay benefitted from playing on some great teams.

If Klay has 3 more seasons like the last two before he starts declining, he is a shoe in for the hall of fame. If the Dubs build a dynasty, he is the Pippen to Curry's Jordan.

I know, a lot of Ifs. Still though, Klay is a freak of a player. I don't think there is anybody in the history of the league quite like him with the shooting/defense combo.

Top 5 shooter of all time according to what?

And I'll give you what he's done, and he has been impressive so far. But like I said before, if he retires right now (or in this case, after the season), is he still a 2nd round pick 10 years from now when we're doing these mock drafts? Or better yet, does he even get mentioned in HOF nominations? I say no. If he keeps it up? Sure, by all means. But you can't project in these exercises. But, again, this is one man's opinion on the subject and I bet we could get about 10 different answers if we asked everyone.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Honestly though, I would not have taken Klay where I did if not for the run of current players.

I do feel like he is every bit as valuable as A player like Kawhi though. If he is your second or third option, you are doing good things. His shooting does so much to open the floor for other players. I think some may be underestimating the impact that these shooters have. Teams are really just now learning he the full power of the 3 point line. Because there are so few players like Klay, he is an extremely rare asset.

Believe me it's not your fault or anyone's in particular its just pointing out it's annoying is some are viewed these days and Klay was an example.

Shit, Curry went 8th which is basically saying he's a top 20 all time player right now. He's simply not. If he keeps on this trajectory he will be.

I think that was a brilliant pick by UK though because of how he's very obviously going to be viewed and the position he plays.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Honestly though, I would not have taken Klay where I did if not for the run of current players.

I do feel like he is every bit as valuable as A player like Kawhi though. If he is your second or third option, you are doing good things. His shooting does so much to open the floor for other players. I think some may be underestimating the impact that these shooters have. Teams are really just now learning he the full power of the 3 point line. Because there are so few players like Klay, he is an extremely rare asset.

That's why I thought Kidd, Richmond, Leonard was a great 1-2-3 G/G/F combo. Kidd is a great facilitator, Richmond elite shooter, Leonard all-around great but everyone votes different and it is always going to be like that.

 

[femurov]

Say what you will, but KAT and Lillard were bigger reaches, IMO.

By the way, despite drafting Klay's skill a little early, I still managed to get 5 HOF players on my team so it isn't like I was loading up on all young guys.

I have 7 HOFers out of 8 that are eligible. The one that isn't in was taken in the last round. Of the 2 ineligible, I would say that you could make a strong case for Melo if he were to retire right now. Griffin needs more time, but he has a solid pace going so far.

 

[Nosferatu]

I asked Nos how current players were evaluated, and that is what he told me. You can't project future performance for a guy like KAT, but an elite player today is worth as much as an elite player from 20 years ago. Does not make sense to punish a guy because his career is not over. Klay is elite.

Geez, I almost sound smart there...

 

[Nosferatu]

Prime KG isn't guarding Leonard on the perimeter man lol. No offense to KG, he is a great but he was a PF for a reason

He wasn't always a PF, he was easily athletic enough in his prime to stay with Kawhi, honestly if you don't know this you never seen him in his prime.

 

[Nosferatu]

For two years...... then played the other 16 where he belongs

Thing is he didnt just play PF all those other years...

 

[tlance]

Not to beat a dead horse, but after last night's game there were multiple analysts saying Klay and Curry are the two best shooters of all time.

Klay has not had the time to amass a resume yet, but right now he is a better basketball player than Ray Allen or Reggie Miller ever were. That is not projection. Klay is currently doing things those guys Never did.

Klay was named 3rd team all NBA (should have been 2nd, IMO) and he finished 5th among guards in the vote for all defense teams (top 4 get in). He is also hands down the best SG in the NBA today. Miller and Allen could never say that.

Today's game utilizes the 3 point line unlike any previous era, so it follows logically that the best from today would also be the best of all time.

 

[Ritzarmy]

Not to beat a dead horse, but after last night's game there were multiple analysts saying Klay and Curry are the two best shooters of all time.

Klay has not had the time to amass a resume yet, but right now he is a better basketball player than Ray Allen or Reggie Miller ever were. That is not projection. Klay is currently doing things those guys Never did.

Klay was named 3rd team all NBA (should have been 2nd, IMO) and he finished 5th among guards in the vote for all defense teams (top 4 get in). He is also hands down the best SG in the NBA today. Miller and Allen could never say that.

Today's game utilizes the 3 point line unlike any previous era, so it follows logically that the best from today would also be the best of all time.

Yes Yes and Yes but some voters like to see what they can do over a longer span plus some voters only prefer guys they watched growing up and feel the old school ballers will always be better then todays players. Not saying either side is right just stating views.