NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[DJ]

sorry- the jailbirds are from the next year--- one of the picks from the Mack trade...lol....

Irony is the Browns having a QB that is none too clean himself....

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[tlance]

At the same time, there’s value in zigging when others zag. I look at Campbell’s rookie class this season and he got great production out of 3 guys that most would say he overdrafted in Gibbs, Campbell, and Branch. All 3 of those guys were major contributors on their team and will be important pieces in their core going forward.

However, I agree with you on GMs having a solid idea on value when it comes to where people will and should be drafted.

Of course.

Gibbs was undervalued simply because he was an RB.

But yeah, I think there is a big difference between what you are talking about and reaching for a dude because he is tops on your board when the analysis says he might be there 3 rounds later.

 

[DJ]

You know people about that life and from the streets and consider that mayhem?

 

[DJ]

That's alotta blah-blah-blah. You wanna kleenex?

Since yer boy Embiid can never stay healthy wonder if he'd like to borrow Paul Pierce's autographed 2008 Finals wheelchair?

If you think this will be the last time I make fun of always injured Embiid and your dumbass 76ers you're in for a disappointment.

Funny story. So far Embiid's been a 7-foot disappointment. Is he made of brittle plastic?

#broken-bitch

The term, Wamy.....is.....

#brittlebitch

 

[shopson67]

Arnette and Ruggs were in 2020.

Max Crosby, Josh Jacobs, Hunter Renfrow in 2019.....

Know your shit. Or don't open your mouth.

 

[shopson67]

I look at Campbell’s rookie class this season and he got great production out of 3 guys that most would say he overdrafted in Gibbs, Campbell, and Branch.

Was Campbell that good this year? The other two for sure.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Was Campbell that good this year? The other two for sure.

He was a staple as a starting LB for them. I think he graded pretty well at his position if I remember correctly. He wasn’t All Pro or anything but he was a solid starter.

 

[dtgold88]

It isn’t what “they think”

It is an approximation of the market.

The GMs who traditionally draft the best absolutely have a feel for value.

Because again, it isn’t just about drafting the right player, it is getting the right player at the right time.

I'm sure they have a feel for value....but they are going to take a guy when they want to take him if it's a guy they must have. You need to remember that all it takes is for one GM to really be in love with a guy to lose that player. sometimes there are guys they don't want to risk losing.

Not sure how you can disagree with this when you seem to agree draft boards of each team would be wildly different.

 

[dtgold88]

At the same time, there’s value in zigging when others zag. I look at Campbell’s rookie class this season and he got great production out of 3 guys that most would say he overdrafted in Gibbs, Campbell, and Branch. All 3 of those guys were major contributors on their team and will be important pieces in their core going forward.

However, I agree with you on GMs having a solid idea on value when it comes to where people will and should be drafted.

I also agree they have a decent idea what real GMs might do......but they don;t care about fake GM opinions.

Gibbs is a great example. Said to be a reach AND wondered why draft him with Swift (and then to deal swift...thoyugh guessing you were OK with it). I'd say if anything that kid needed to play more than he did.

 

[dtgold88]

Irony is the Browns having a QB that is none too clean himself....

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

are you really trying to compare what Watson was accused of doing to what Ruggs did?

 

[dtgold88]

Of course.

Gibbs was undervalued simply because he was an RB.

But yeah, I think there is a big difference between what you are talking about and reaching for a dude because he is tops on your board when the analysis says he might be there 3 rounds later.

3 rounds? Maybe, but again you are dismissing the notion all it takes is for one other GM to see a player like you might.

 

[tlance]

3 rounds? Maybe, but again you are dismissing the notion all it takes is for one other GM to see a player like you might.

Then let them reach.

There is no 1 player that any team “has to have” aside from the QB position.

 

[dtgold88]

Then let them reach.

There is no 1 player that any team “has to have” aside from the QB position.

"has to have"? Sure...but might badly want someone.....and once again you don't know that another team wasn't thinking the same.

Does this work the other way? I recall many Browns fans wanting JOK in the first round (and many mocks had him going round 1).....we got him in round 2. Think same was kind of true of Jones maybe being a 1st or 2nd rounder and we got him in 4th (or maybe 3rd).

Hell, seemed like the consensus on Manziel was a top 5-10 pick (maybe higher). solid pick at 22, I guess. To me, I'd say a draft should be graded on how guys actually play. Use a 1st rounder on a complete bust that's a bad pick. Take a guy who is a stud and worthy of where he went it's a good pick.

 

[tlance]

"has to have"? Sure...but might badly want someone.....and once again you don't know that another team wasn't thinking the same.

Does this work the other way? I recall many Browns fans wanting JOK in the first round (and many mocks had him going round 1).....we got him in round 2. Think same was kind of true of Jones maybe being a 1st or 2nd rounder and we got him in 4th (or maybe 3rd).

Hell, seemed like the consensus on Manziel was a top 5-10 pick (maybe higher). solid pick at 22, I guess. To me, I'd say a draft should be graded on how guys actually play. Use a 1st rounder on a complete bust that's a bad pick. Take a guy who is a stud and worthy of where he went it's a good pick.

That is my point.

The GMs who reach for the guy they “really want” above logic and reason don’t usually end up keeping their jobs that long.

And no, Manziel was in no way a consensus pick. So many red flags there.

 

[dtgold88]

That is my point.

The GMs who reach for the guy they “really want” above logic and reason don’t usually end up keeping their jobs that long.

And no, Manziel was in no way a consensus pick. So many red flags there.

and my point is that is not how guys keep or lose jobs. That would be based on the production of the player....take a guy in round 1 who many had going round 2-3 and he is a stud - even if you do that with a handful of players - no GM loses his job for that.

Take a late round 1 who was expected to go early round 1 and he's a bust that is going to hurt if it happens too much.

There were some red flags on Manziel, sure, but most fake GMs did have him going in the top 5-10 of the draft. Solid pick at 22.

 

[Shanemansj13]

That is my point.

The GMs who reach for the guy they “really want” above logic and reason don’t usually end up keeping their jobs that long.

And no, Manziel was in no way a consensus pick. So many red flags there.

No Manziel was definitely projected top 10 (usually top 5). Whether it was a weak QB class or not, he was projected in that spot. In fact, most people were shocked he dropped that far in the 1st round to the Browns 2nd pick in that 1st round. So when people say Manziel was over-drafted and a bust...all is true, but compared to the projections he really wasn't. Manziel was actually under-drafted which matters little bc he was a bust and I hated the pick at the time.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

No Manziel was definitely projected top 10 (usually top 5). Whether it was a weak QB class or not, he was projected in that spot. In fact, most people were shocked he dropped that far in the 1st round to the Browns 2nd pick in that 1st round. So when people say Manziel was over-drafted and a bust...all is true, but compared to the projections he really wasn't. Manziel was actually under-drafted which matters little bc he was a bust and I hated the pick at the time.

Merrill Hoge was ahead of the curve on Manziel but aside from him not sure many could have seen him giving absolutely zero shits about a playbook

 

[dtgold88]

No Manziel was definitely projected top 10 (usually top 5). Whether it was a weak QB class or not, he was projected in that spot. In fact, most people were shocked he dropped that far in the 1st round to the Browns 2nd pick in that 1st round. So when people say Manziel was over-drafted and a bust...all is true, but compared to the projections he really wasn't. Manziel was actually under-drafted which matters little bc he was a bust and I hated the pick at the time.

Exactly!! and that is all anyone cares about if they are thinking of keeping or not keeping their GM. Now to be fair, if you miss on a guy like Schwartz they may not care much as midround picks are at best crap shoots. But too many misses overall and in those rounds you wont have a job long.

 

[tlance]

No Manziel was definitely projected top 10 (usually top 5). Whether it was a weak QB class or not, he was projected in that spot. In fact, most people were shocked he dropped that far in the 1st round to the Browns 2nd pick in that 1st round. So when people say Manziel was over-drafted and a bust...all is true, but compared to the projections he really wasn't. Manziel was actually under-drafted which matters little bc he was a bust and I hated the pick at the time.

I understand where he was rated by some.

But he was also so polarizing that many teams didn’t even have him on their board at all.

So not a surprise he fell.

 

[dtgold88]

Merrill Hoge was ahead of the curve on Manziel but aside from him not sure many could have seen him giving absolutely zero shits about a playbook

Yes!! could not recall who it was, but did remember someone who either said he would not draft him at all or maybe said 3rd round.