Mystery solved

[Money]

They were otherwise good posters I thought. I was not paying attention to the Atlanta thing....
Have they asked to come back?????

I don't think they have much of a desire to do so.

 

[Southieinnc]

I don't think they have much of a desire to do so.

They should. This is the place to be.

 

[WizardHawk]

Wizard hawk, weren't we in agreement that both of our teams get the most hate a couple of weeks ago? And you and Harold ( 2 posters I respected) are now joining the lynch mob. What's your motive for this ?

Not out to get them at all. Not even a little bit.

I've been cautious to say if reports are true. I have said I'm tending toward believing them, but I'd be fine if it turns out most of it was just bad journalism and there was no event here either.

I just keep things real. As I said, I used to perform investigations and you kind of have to keep everything on the table until absolutely ruled out. I was just pointing out the science angle doesn't necessarily meet that criteria.

None of us will know until all of the facts are out. Of course I'm not expecting the league to actually give us all of those facts to begin with. I'm expecting this to end in a way that no one feels like they have a satisfactory answer just knowing how the league operates.

 

[PatsFan2003]

You did get the part where I work in casinos right?

I was the director of surveillance operations for more than 10 years and putting investigations together was a big part of my job. I don't need to see a movie to understand these things, I lived it. Saw all sorts of scams and moves to steal. Both from customers, and more often, employees. You'd be surprised what people can do in a very small window of opportunity. Truly mind blowing.

So yes, I approach this like any other investigation I did over the years. Both going to the bathroom AND tampering are POSSIBLE here.

HAHA. No I didn't. Is it a ball boy doing this slight of hand. ANYTHING is POSSIBLE but it's the likelihood and probability that it occurred that's more important.

Hell. Is it POSSIBLE that some gambler bribed the ball boy to give the Patriots an extra edge? Unlikely, but POSSIBLE, of course.

You want to talk about probabilities? Right now you have 3 big Patriots figures being pretty adamant here. It would be unlikely they would do that if they felt they were going to get caught.

So far the best demonstration of an explanation is still the guy from Bowdoin. No chalkboard needed describing the physical processes involved. Just a simple experiment that shows how exactly and how easily it can happen.

 

[WizardHawk]

HAHA. No I didn't. Is it a ball boy doing this slight of hand. ANYTHING is POSSIBLE but it's the likelihood and probability that it occurred that's more important.

Hell. Is it POSSIBLE that some gambler bribed the ball boy to give the Patriots an extra edge? Unlikely, but POSSIBLE, of course.

You want to talk about probabilities? Right now you have 3 big Patriots figures being pretty adamant here. It would be unlikely they would do that if they felt they were going to get caught.

So far the best demonstration of an explanation is still the guy from Bowdoin. No chalkboard needed describing the physical processes involved. Just a simple experiment that shows how exactly and how easily it can happen.

Vehemently denying something is no indicator of innocence. In fact the opposite is often true. The more guilty the more they cry foul at even the suggestion. Ask Lance Armstrong and A-Rod about that stuff.

As I said, if it was nothing more than expected weather impact then why aren't balls in near freezing games even worse? If it happens from a known temperature effect on the air in the ball then it would happen to both teams and on every ball in every game played in cooler climates.

There is no doubt the balls will all be smaller at half time than when measured before the game. Zero doubt about that at all. The degree to which is expected is another.

To me, if this was just as you are banking on now then I would have expected the league to say something about it and put it to rest fast. They hired an independent investigative firm with electronic forensics experience to take a deep look at this thing. Just tells me it was something more than both teams balls went down by some amount that could be explained by temperature alone.

 

[octagondd]

I want to know what they do in their rub down that increases the pressure 1 PSI for a temporary period. Bill said it wasn't a hot room or hot air. What kind of rubbing or pressure occurs to increase the pressure? Do they replace the bladder with a smaller one? Do they redo the laces tighter knowing they will slowly expand over time? Do they use a dehydrator to shrink the outer layer and the bladder as much as possible before filling? There are no rules on the preparation, so it is fair game and pretty genius if you ask me.

One thing we know for certain is that Brady likes his balls at 11.5 or lower or they would not go through whatever it is they do to add 1 psi to the ball for inspection. We also know that the equipment manager and/or Brady know that the prep process adds this 1 lb., so they only inflate to 11.5 before final prep.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Wizard hawk, weren't we in agreement that both of our teams get the most hate a couple of weeks ago? And you and Harold ( 2 posters I respected) are now joining the lynch mob. What's your motive for this ?

I'm not joining any lynch mob. I think the whole thing is much ado over nothing. If your referring to the smack thread, that thread is for having fun insulting your opponent. It's meant to be all in fun, don't take it seriously.

 

[PatsFan2003]

Vehemently denying something is no indicator of innocence. In fact the opposite is often true. The more guilty the more they cry foul at even the suggestion. Ask Lance Armstrong and A-Rod about that stuff.

Perhaps but both Armstrong and A-Rod came clean when it was clear they were going to be found out.
The Patriots are in the middle of the investigation right now when all it take is one person in the organization past or present. Kraft has much to lose backing a guilty Belichick and he could have remained supportive without going all in like he did.

I think if there are guilty parties to be found they will be exposed.

As I said, if it was nothing more than expected weather impact then why aren't balls in near freezing games even worse? If it happens from a known temperature effect on the air in the ball then it would happen to both teams and on every ball in every game played in cooler climates.

How do you know they aren't? Anyone who's ever lived in the cold weather knows tire pressure decreases over time. But teams inflate the balls differently, the impact of the deflation on the feel of the footballs has probably been exaggerated by the Mark Brunells of the world and when they're not, when the balls do seem to have lost too pressure the refs just change the balls.

There is no doubt the balls will all be smaller at half time than when measured before the game. Zero doubt about that at all. The degree to which is expected is another.

Absolutely so if the balls are at the lower limit they may fall below specification. Balls inflated at the higher levels perhaps not enough.

To me, if this was just as you are banking on now then I would have expected the league to say something about it and put it to rest fast. They hired an independent investigative firm with electronic forensics experience to take a deep look at this thing. Just tells me it was something more than both teams balls went down by some amount that could be explained by temperature alone.

They can't do that after their mishandling of the Ray Rice incident and there are people still pissed off because of Spygate. Goodell almost lost his job over Rice.

So they have to pursue it until they can explain what happened better. If they had solid evidence it will come out soon enough.

I'm SURE we would have heard by the usual sources. And not of ball boys taking a whiz.

 

[PatsFan2003]

I want to know what they do in their rub down that increases the pressure 1 PSI for a temporary period. Bill said it wasn't a hot room or hot air. What kind of rubbing or pressure occurs to increase the pressure? Do they replace the bladder with a smaller one? Do they redo the laces tighter knowing they will slowly expand over time? Do they use a dehydrator to shrink the outer layer and the bladder as much as possible before filling? There are no rules on the preparation, so it is fair game and pretty genius if you ask me.

One thing we know for certain is that Brady likes his balls at 11.5 or lower or they would not go through whatever it is they do to add 1 psi to the ball for inspection. We also know that the equipment manager and/or Brady know that the prep process adds this 1 lb., so they only inflate to 11.5 before final prep.

It sounds like they may scrub the balls or something. Perhaps with a brush.

 

[octagondd]

It sounds like they may scrub the balls or something. Perhaps with a brush.

Scrubbing with a wire brush makes no sense as far as elevating the pressure of the ball. I just don't see how scrubbing the slick dimples off would increase the pressure. Someone suggested it causes heat and that would warm the air inside the ball. I don't know the physics of that, but it seems pretty far fetched.

Dehydration of a leather skin sounds much more plausible. Creates a shrinking affect which would put more pressure on the interior bladder. Maybe the rubber bladder reacts the same way as well?

Pump to 10.5-11 psi, dehydrate and prep, hand over at 11.5 -12, hope they pass without a gauge inspection, ball settles over next 2.5 hours back to 10.5-11. Add colder temps and water, voila, deflategate. It is plausible.

 

[wood20ks]

Scrubbing with a wire brush makes no sense as far as elevating the pressure of the ball. I just don't see how scrubbing the slick dimples off would increase the pressure. Someone suggested it causes heat and that would warm the air inside the ball. I don't know the physics of that, but it seems pretty far fetched.

Dehydration of a leather skin sounds much more plausible. Creates a shrinking affect which would put more pressure on the interior bladder. Maybe the rubber bladder reacts the same way as well?

Pump to 10.5-11 psi, dehydrate and prep, hand over at 11.5 -12, hope they pass without a gauge inspection, ball settles over next 2.5 hours back to 10.5-11. Add colder temps and water, voila, deflategate. It is plausible.

That's it.............You solved the riddle.

Damn,and to think I owe Tom and Bill an apology..........rflmao

 

[MISKO]

Cravn and Tgann got themselves banned (in 2012 I believe). I'm pretty sure they were trolling the Falcons' board with the whole Flacco/Ryan debate.

rather than asking to come back they tried sneaking back in with an alt .. they wont be back even if they ask now

 

[Southieinnc]

rather than asking to come back they tried sneaking back in with an alt .. they wont be back even if they ask now

Ahh, the plot thickens. Oh well, Money is going to have to find and recruit some Baltimore fans.

Get to work, Money!!!!!

(I'd help but I don't know any)

 

[WizardHawk]

Look, I get why Pats fans are going to spin this hard until there is nothing left. Probably a natural reaction for any fan base, but there is a reason why tons and tons of former players and league insiders are chiming in and all are agreeing based on these reports they are convinced the team did this on purpose.

We aren't going to find out either way for many weeks to come. Continuing to debate the same leaked points isn't going to get that answer to us any faster.

 

[Southieinnc]

Scrubbing with a wire brush makes no sense as far as elevating the pressure of the ball. I just don't see how scrubbing the slick dimples off would increase the pressure. Someone suggested it causes heat and that would warm the air inside the ball. I don't know the physics of that, but it seems pretty far fetched.

Dehydration of a leather skin sounds much more plausible. Creates a shrinking affect which would put more pressure on the interior bladder. Maybe the rubber bladder reacts the same way as well?

Pump to 10.5-11 psi, dehydrate and prep, hand over at 11.5 -12, hope they pass without a gauge inspection, ball settles over next 2.5 hours back to 10.5-11. Add colder temps and water, voila, deflategate. It is plausible.

There was only one ball that was down 2 pounds. 10 balls were down 1 pound.
The brush is a bristle brush.

 

[WizardHawk]

There was only one ball that was down 2 pounds. 10 balls were down 1 pound.
The brush is a bristle brush.

Again, if we can't consider the leaked information as facts when it actually makes the pats look bad, we also can't consider them as facts when it might support a claim of yours.

We do not know how far any of those balls were under the limit. There are only conflicting leaked information.

 

[PatsFan2003]

Look, I get why Pats fans are going to spin this hard until there is nothing left. Probably a natural reaction for any fan base, but there is a reason why tons and tons of former players and league insiders are chiming in and all are agreeing based on these reports they are convinced the team did this on purpose.

We aren't going to find out either way for many weeks to come. Continuing to debate the same leaked points isn't going to get that answer to us any faster.

That's all sort of some vague feeling that "everyone knows they're cheating" make's it all true.

 

[Cyder]

It sounds like they may scrub the balls or something. Perhaps with a brush.

Sounds painful

 

[PatsFan2003]

Again, if we can't consider the leaked information as facts when it actually makes the pats look bad, we also can't consider them as facts when it might support a claim of yours.

We do not know how far any of those balls were under the limit. There are only conflicting leaked information.

The fact that the stories are conflicting and have changed over time says something to me.

 

[WizardHawk]

The fact that the stories are conflicting and have changed over time says something to me.

Unless it's don't believe ANYTHING until the final reports are out then I'm not sure what you learned. Leaks might as well be considered rumors and leave it at that.