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My biggest Kirk issue

SoCalWizFan

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It appears you may be right, but he is still the best we've got given the situation we are in. With our luck, we revert back to Griffin and he gets injured, neutering is for next year.

Not so sure about that. Given the current situation McCoy may actually be a better option. Sure - he doesn't have the arm of the other two. However - he is less likely to make mistakes & might do just enough to pull out some games. Sure - he won't be the QB of the future, but in all likelihood neither will the other two.
 

j_y19

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Not so sure about that. Given the current situation McCoy may actually be a better option. Sure - he doesn't have the arm of the other two. However - he is less likely to make mistakes & might do just enough to pull out some games. Sure - he won't be the QB of the future, but in all likelihood neither will the other two.
We know what colt is. A career backup. And while it is becoming clearer what KC is, I would resist the urge to make rash changes. Let's play this out for a bit longer. It will be telling to see how KC reacts next game. Does he continue to spiral down when playing from behind or does he bounce back?
 

SoCalWizFan

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We know what colt is. A career backup. And while it is becoming clearer what KC is, I would resist the urge to make rash changes. Let's play this out for a bit longer. It will be telling to see how KC reacts next game. Does he continue to spiral down when playing from behind or does he bounce back?

I am not suggesting that they insert McCoy at this time. You stated that Kirk is their best current option, and as time goes by I would dispute that more and more. What exactly has he done to prove that he is their best QB? He does well & appears to be in control at times, but the bottom line is that he doesn't win, makes tons of mistakes & almost appears incapable of making the big play at critical times.

You are correct about McCoy being a career backup. However - one could make the same argument for both Cousins and RG3. If the current trend continues I won't care if McCoy starts because at that time it will really be about evaluating the other positions & looking ahead to find out where they can find their next QB.

I hope that Cousins bucks the trend, but any objective person would have to say that the odds on that are very slim at this pt.
 

Darrell Green Fan

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I think the point is the movie on Colt has already been written. With Cousins it's only in the later chapters.
 

deanpet21

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I put the blame on KC tonight. The 1st qtr under throw to Reed for TD was just down right awful. He had all the time in the world to complete the pass and he leaves it short. If you are a NFL QB you have to hit that pass. The 2nd possible TD to Reed he was blitzed but this had enough time to get it to Reed. KC leaves it short again. KC accuracy was way off in this game. I thought our WR made some spectacular catches last night except for Roberts. Its a bad loss against a banged up Giants team.
 

SoCalWizFan

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I think the point is the movie on Colt has already been written. With Cousins it's only in the later chapters.

True but we are quite possibly only weeks away from final chapter for Cousins. Again - not advocating making a change for at least a month or so. However - after that pt & with similar results a switch to McCoy may not be bad if only to allow the coaches to truly evaluate the other players. I hope it does not get to that pt., but I have a hard time believing that the current trend will be reversed. Please prove me wrong.
 

Caliskinsfan

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whelp


 

Rasta

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We simply need to realize that if we can't play our game with running we are going to lose.

This!

Kirk is a game manager. He needs things to be perfect around him. When they aren't, he makes bad mistakes. The formula this year is simple. If we run the ball well, we have a very good shot a winning. If we can't run the ball well, then there's a very good chance it gets ugly.

IMO, let Kirk ride it out for at least 8-10 games then you can let McCoy take a shot.

Bottom line is that we don't have a long term answer at QB on the roster at this point IMO so every week is going to be a roller coaster.
 

Caliskinsfan

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This!

Kirk is a game manager. He needs things to be perfect around him. When they aren't, he makes bad mistakes. The formula this year is simple. If we run the ball well, we have a very good shot a winning. If we can't run the ball well, then there's a very good chance it gets ugly.

IMO, let Kirk ride it out for at least 8-10 games then you can let McCoy take a shot.

Bottom line is that we don't have a long term answer at QB on the roster at this point IMO so every week is going to be a roller coaster.

I don't think Kirk needs things to be perfect around him, but the game can't veer so far off script for him or the team to have a remote possibility to win.

You are right that we have to see more games from him but the chance of him being the long term solution continues to get smaller.
 

SoCalWizFan

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I don't think Kirk needs things to be perfect around him, but the game can't veer so far off script for him or the team to have a remote possibility to win.

You are right that we have to see more games from him but the chance of him being the long term solution continues to get smaller.

Perfect around him? He had wide open receivers several times during the night & decent protection. How much more perfect can it get? Again - a good running game helps but you can't simply win by running the football in this era. Teams will basically dare you to throw on them & this is where the QB must step up. Cousins window of opportunity is likely very small at this time.
 

Caliskinsfan

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Perfect around him? He had wide open receivers several times during the night & decent protection. How much more perfect can it get? Again - a good running game helps but you can't simply win by running the football in this era. Teams will basically dare you to throw on them & this is where the QB must step up. Cousins window of opportunity is likely very small at this time.

Kirk was horrible. And like most have said, not likely to be the long term answer. But asking him to pass 49 times is Laughable. He's not that guy. A running game gives you a shot with him as the team develops.
 

j_y19

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I am not suggesting that they insert McCoy at this time. You stated that Kirk is their best current option, and as time goes by I would dispute that more and more. What exactly has he done to prove that he is their best QB? He does well & appears to be in control at times, but the bottom line is that he doesn't win, makes tons of mistakes & almost appears incapable of making the big play at critical times.

You are correct about McCoy being a career backup. However - one could make the same argument for both Cousins and RG3. If the current trend continues I won't care if McCoy starts because at that time it will really be about evaluating the other positions & looking ahead to find out where they can find their next QB.

I hope that Cousins bucks the trend, but any objective person would have to say that the odds on that are very slim at this pt.
There are throws that colt just can't make. KC can make them all, just has yet to prove he can do them consistently or under pressure. He may never prove that. Colt is also no stranger to turning the ball over. I suggest we atleast give KC until the bye week. If he is still making these same pressure produced mistakes, then a change should be considered. But I also think you can't dismiss how the momentum killing penalties can derail a young QB. Take the first drive. He throws a beautiful pass to the RB on a wheel route for a big gain only to be called back on a penalty by Reed that had nothing to do with the play. What ensues next is the blocked punt fiasco. When KC gets on a roll, he is sharp. It's very conceivable that if that penalty doesn't happen, KC drives them down for a score on that series. Instead, we end up screwed and everyone is discombobulated from that play on.
 

SoCalWizFan

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Kirk was horrible. And like most have said, not likely to be the long term answer. But asking him to pass 49 times is Laughable. He's not that guy. A running game gives you a shot with him as the team develops.

Oh no - I am not asking for them to be the Saints or Pats & throw for a ton of yds every game. However - they do not need to balance the pass & the run during the game since again teams will put just about everyone near the line of scrimmage. This is where Cousins or whoever needs to step up. I just don't believe that you can have a run only type offense in this era.

Getting behind early was the reason for so many passes last night & a lot of that was fueled by mistakes, and Cousins was one of the main culprits.
 

SoCalWizFan

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There are throws that colt just can't make. KC can make them all, just has yet to prove he can do them consistently or under pressure. He may never prove that. Colt is also no stranger to turning the ball over. I suggest we atleast give KC until the bye week. If he is still making these same pressure produced mistakes, then a change should be considered. But I also think you can't dismiss how the momentum killing penalties can derail a young QB. Take the first drive. He throws a beautiful pass to the RB on a wheel route for a big gain only to be called back on a penalty by Reed that had nothing to do with the play. What ensues next is the blocked punt fiasco. When KC gets on a roll, he is sharp. It's very conceivable that if that penalty doesn't happen, KC drives them down for a score on that series. Instead, we end up screwed and everyone is discombobulated from that play on.

In regards to INTs - please see the stats quoted in that article about Cousins turnovers that I posted in another thread. Here are the career stats for all Redskins QBs:

Kirk Cousins, Colt McCoy and RG3 all have exactly 23 career interceptions. Cousins: 514 attempts McCoy: 831 attempts RG3: 1,063 attempts

Yep - McCoy throws picks but pretty much nobody throws them at the same rate as Cousins & Jaworksi identified a primary reason which relates to Cousins approach to the position.

I also agree somewhat about how circumstances affect Cousins. However - these are likely going to happen with this young team, and they don't excuse the game killing mistakes from Cousins (not just talking about INTs). A good QB will overcome these type of obstacles. I am with you about going with Cousins for a while - I just don't believe that he will be the Skins QB beyond this season barring somewhat of a miracle.
 

Caliskinsfan

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Oh no - I am not asking for them to be the Saints or Pats & throw for a ton of yds every game. However - they do not need to balance the pass & the run during the game since again teams will put just about everyone near the line of scrimmage. This is where Cousins or whoever needs to step up. I just don't believe that you can have a run only type offense in this era.

Getting behind early was the reason for so many passes last night & a lot of that was fueled by mistakes, and Cousins was one of the main culprits.


You do need balance. And you do need a QB who can step up in situations when the run game fails you. That was yet another disappointment. The inability to get the run game to be effective early.
 

Stymietee

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The proper rotation.......if there's going to be one is KC then Colt and back to KC if necessary. I personally believe that Griffin still has the greatest upside of the three and that Washington would be absolutely foolish to use him this year. Asking or expecting DC to do the right thing is something entirely different than anything that's happened in the years prior to the hiring of SM.

Right now, many of you are scratching your collective heads wondering why Griffin is still here. Well I have absolutely no proof about this, but if I'm correct, SM has devised a plan for him that includes:

1. Working with a baseball coach to perfect his slide
2. Tons of film work designed to bring him up to speed on using that tool and learning to read defenses ( there's also a VR app for that)
3. Work on his footwork and drop back release coordination.

Given its' history, pardon my skepticism, that there is more than one forward thinking member in our current front office, but if, as I suspect, that one guy does have a plan, the future QB of this team may very well be on the current roster. If he plays again this year as Shark suggests, then all bets are off, if he returns next year......well....... I've just told you why!
 

The Himiko Cloud

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I wouldn't even consider Colt this year unless KC gets injured. Not the bye week, not 1-10. If KC continues to be terrible, so be it. I feel like putting McCoy in would be saying "hey, let's try to go 8-8 or 9-7, sneak into the 6th seed and get smashed in the first round." Colt is a backup and I'm fine if he's our backup even next year, but he's not starter material and we have a ton of tape/history to prove that - I agree with DGF there. KC very well may not be starter material either and probably isn't, I get that, but at least there are some things you can look to to say maybe. Maybe something clicks and they roll to 10-6, maybe he continues the trend, they finish 4-12 and they get a high draft pick - I know players and coaches don't think like that, but GMs might. SM said it would be a couple years before they compete anyway. And if they do finish 4-12 and he continues to misfire on receivers and throw terrible interceptions, then you know the experiment is over. If his confidence is gone, he's a FA anyway. If you want to talk RG3 at the bye week if KC keeps it up, I'll listen, but that $$ next year scares me and he still has no pocket presence (even though the pockets for him sucked last year).
 

ehb5

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Not so sure about that. Given the current situation McCoy may actually be a better option. Sure - he doesn't have the arm of the other two. However - he is less likely to make mistakes & might do just enough to pull out some games. Sure - he won't be the QB of the future, but in all likelihood neither will the other two.

It's not like cousins has some cannon anyways.
 
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