M's at the center of early season rule controversy

[WizardHawk]

Catch/transfer rule a big problem early in replay situations - CBSSports.com
Not just the replay overturn of last nights game, but also Ackley's drop on the transfer in the Oakland series.

 

[Podunkparte]

It's an incredibly stupid interpretation of the rule that a fielder has to control the ball in his bare hand after already catching the ball in order for an out to be recorded.

This interpretation should only be applied on quick transfers like a 2B/SS not catching the ball on a double play before they start the turn.

If you have the baseball in your closed glove and your foot on the base, the runner should be out at that instant.

 

[NWinAZ]

Agreed. Once the glove closes and you have have control of your body, then it is a catch. I say control over your body because if you close your glove and then hit the wall or ground and it drops, then I still think it is a drop. But the transfer stuff is redic. That is two different actions so when the first is complete that portion of the play is over. They are making it harder than it is.

 

[WizardHawk]

I just fucking HATE this new catch/no catch bullshit. Balls that have been outs for more than 40 years of watching baseball are suddenly not outs. Total and complete bullshit. Seager should have had that out.

 

[WizardHawk]

After now watching one go for us, and one against us I can say from now on the managers should be telling their players to stop trying for double plays. Just eat the fucking ball and HOLD THE GOD DAMNED THING. Baseball as we knew it is dead. Congrats on killing one of the great sports.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Screw waiting until after the year to fix this rule. It needs to be fixed NOW. And no I am not mad that it went against them today and no I dont think it lost them the game. Young going 3 innings and taxing the bullpen for the 3rd time in 4 games lost us the game. But this rule is stupid and ridiculous and everyone knows it. Do the right thing and change it.

 

[cezero]

i like the idea of players having to demonstrate positive control over the ball before it's ruled a catch, transfer thereafter or not.

it's just going to take some time for everybody to get used to.

i really hope that MLB is brave enough to withstand the onslaught of stupidity.

i know i'm in the minority, and that's fine.

 

[WizardHawk]

A catch has been a catch for well over 100 years. Attempting to redefine it now is changing the game and not in a good way IMO. It's no less a catch because you bobble a transfer. It just isn't.

In football, if a receiver catches a ball and holds it and then fumbles it trying to move it to the other arm it's a fumble.

If you catch a ball and ONLY bobble or drop it trying to move it to your other hand it just doesn't make sense to rule it not a catch. It was caught!

 

[Logicallylethal]

I agree that this rule changes how the game will be played from now on...but I'm not sure where I stand on it yet.

A part of me says that it's the right rule. A player should have full possession of the ball in order to record the out. I'm sure in baseball's 100 + years of fielding there's probably been thousands of instances where a player has not properly caught the ball or properly tagged a player and have been given the out.

Now with replay we can fix that and get it right

To comment specifically on the play with Seager, it looked like the ball didn't exactly stick to the webbing of his gloves initially that's why he bobbled the transfer after. Had it been a "clean" catch there probably wouldn't have been a bobble.

Plus why was Seager trying to go to first anyways he had no chance to get the runner. Just hold on to the ball and get the out. But it's probably a natural instinct for every fielder to clutch and fake the throw even if there is no throw across the diamond

 

[WizardHawk]

I don't dislike this rule because it went against us in this case. With 2 on and 1 out they still probably lose that game. This is after all the Mariners. We have benefited from it as well. That Ackley catch against Oakland was a catch. It just was. That has been a catch for 120+ years.

If you want to replay every bobble and have an ump decide whether or not the ball was firmly in the webbing and not moving before they go to transfer then fine, but a bobble on the transfer should not negate a catch. It's just dumb.

 

[Logicallylethal]

I don't dislike this rule because it went against us in this case. With 2 on and 1 out they still probably lose that game. This is after all the Mariners. We have benefited from it as well. That Ackley catch against Oakland was a catch. It just was. That has been a catch for 120+ years.

If you want to replay every bobble and have an ump decide whether or not the ball was firmly in the webbing and not moving before they go to transfer then fine, but a bobble on the transfer should not negate a catch. It's just dumb.

See that's where they need to be more clear about in the rule. At what point does a fielder secure the catch?

In my opinion if the fielder catches it cleanly and THEN he bobbles that should be an out. If it's not caught cleanly and it directly leads to the bobble then no out.

 

[Podunkparte]

i like the idea of players having to demonstrate positive control over the ball before it's ruled a catch, transfer thereafter or not.

it's just going to take some time for everybody to get used to.

i really hope that MLB is brave enough to withstand the onslaught of stupidity.

i know i'm in the minority, and that's fine.

The glove being closed around the ball has been that demonstration for decades. At that moment that part of the play should be over. The transfer is part of the next play and has nothing to do with getting a force out at that player's base.

 

[WizardHawk]

Report: MLB likely to adjust home plate collision and transfer rules - CBSSports.com
Sounds like they are going to visit both controversies during the season.

Here is more from Rosenthal:

The first, at minimum, would be a guideline in which catchers will be asked to give the runner a lane to the plate in their initial positioning, further reducing the possibility of collisions at home plate.

The second would be a less strict interpretation of the transfer rule, in which umpires would rule on catches the way they did in the past, using more of a common-sense approach rather than following the letter of the law.

The transfer rule has caused quite a bit of outrage -- under the current rule, a clean transfer from glove to throwing hand is required for a catch

 

[Podunkparte]

Gee, let's have a few meetings about whether we should or shouldn't use common fucking sense. These people are idiots.

 

[cezero]

The glove being closed around the ball has been that demonstration for decades. At that moment that part of the play should be over. The transfer is part of the next play and has nothing to do with getting a force out at that player's base.

if the player drops a ball on the transfer going for the bonus out/double play, then i'm all for not giving them credit for the first out.

show positive control over the first out, and after that, if you can pull the double play cleanly, then good for you. drop the ball at any point in the process, and you fucked up, shame on you, you don't get credit for the out.

that's not redefining baseball, it's playing baseball.

i'm just hoping they apply this adherence to rules that are actually there on paper to things like the neighborhood play at 2nd someday soon.

the fake double plays that have been around for so long via the "neighborhood" play are a black eye to the sport,too. for it to be a double play, each fielder needs to be touching the bags with control of the ball for each out to count. fielders need to leave lanes open, and take out slides need to be punished. anything else is a joke.

they're finally making some sense with plays at home. hope they build on it.

 

[cezero]

none of this is important enough for me to get too bothered by, though.

i've gotten used to baseball's multiple idiosyncrasies with regards to rules...different strike zone every night depending on the whims of the ump, neighborhood plays, etc.

i'd much rather have it be a real sport, though, which requires basic adherence to unambiguous rules.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I'm all for breaking up baseball tradition. Maybe one day the league will pull their head out of their butts and have the computer determine a strike while the ump simply repeats what the call from the computer was.

Everyone says, "If a computer calls it, it's against tradition!" Well F that, people are betting money on a game, get the f'ing call right. If you want tradition nobody is going to notice the earpiece on the ump anyway.

And I'll just throw this in there as well, NFL needs to allow challenges on penalties.

 

[dude82]

What I'm wondering is whether a catch would be called a drop if the player caught it, held it in his glove for, say, three Mississippi, and then bobbled the transfer. How much time has to pass or what actions have to take place before a catch can be called a catch even if the player bobbles or drops the transfer into the throwing hand?

In terms of tweaking or outright eliminating the rule... as much as I'd like to see it done in-season, changing it now will only make the teams that have had calls reversed by the other team's challenges on those plays (and gone on to lose the game) even more upset than when they had the calls reversed. The calls themselves may not have been the ultimate reason for those losses, but it'll still make you wonder what would have happened had the calls stood. I understand using replay on phantom double plays, but I don't think I've seen challenges on or this rule applied to that type of play yet and that was the play that the rule was originally intended to eliminate, wasn't it?

 

[WizardHawk]

Glad they didn't wait until the end of the season to reverse the dumb transfer rule.

MLB fixes transfer rule, effective immediately - CBSSports.com

Now the catch that has been a catch for over 100 years is back to actually being a catch.

 

[Itsmytime]

I don't know whats more of a cluster fuck, MLB or the NBA.