Series Thread: M's @ Aholes: 4/26 - 4/29

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

I think every Mariners agrees that 2B and any quality pitching would’ve been great. Moore is a solid utility guy, but you weaken your entire team when you turn a utility guy into a starter.

Ya that was my argument against the machine during the offseason. Amazing how many fans thought he was the answer after a few weeks of success in a 5 year career. A good, even great, utility man rarely becomes the best option as a starter over the course of a season. McLemore was not a utility man. He played multiple positions, but was always a starter talent wise.

 

[AceKeptic]

Down 2-0 in the second already...

Yep, this game's over.

 

[NWinAZ]

They say Evan White is a Gold Glover, and that may be true, but he definitely isn't a Gold Arm. Ouchie!

 

[Duders]

What happened to our pen tonight? This is not the team I was starting to get excited about. I know the Stros are tough but the M's had a pretty solid lead until the wheels fell off. Oh well, nothing surprises me anymore with this team but it's sad to see "shtuff" like this happening.

 

[Anointed One]

 

[SeattleCoug]

Montero is gonna be the common whipping boy tonight but I don’t see it that way at all. There were 3 balls that weren’t that well that found holes and the ump squeezed him on that last walk. White’s error cost them the game and he should get all the blame. Why? Because he isn’t hitting at all so his defense better be perfect. A .160 avg and an OPS below .500 at 1B is just LOL. But he’s a good boy who signed his contract so can’t be hard on him I guess.

 

[SeattleCoug]

What happened to our pen tonight? This is not the team I was starting to get excited about. I know the Stros are tough but the M's had a pretty solid lead until the wheels fell off. Oh well, nothing surprises me anymore with this team but it's sad to see "shtuff" like this happening.

A little regression combined with bad luck. Whites error just killed the game

 

[Destroydacre]

What happened to our pen tonight? This is not the team I was starting to get excited about. I know the Stros are tough but the M's had a pretty solid lead until the wheels fell off. Oh well, nothing surprises me anymore with this team but it's sad to see "shtuff" like this happening.

Not gonna blame the pen tonight. Montero got the double play ball needed to get out of the eighth and White bungled the throw. Speaking of White, he needs to be demoted to Tacoma immediately. He has never shown that he deserves a spot at the MLB level and his tenure so far in Seattle has been a failure. I don't care about a gold glove at first base, your first baseman cannot have an OPS below .500, period.

 

[wazzu31]

Ya that was my argument against the machine during the offseason. Amazing how many fans thought he was the answer after a few weeks of success in a 5 year career. A good, even great, utility man rarely becomes the best option as a starter over the course of a season. McLemore was not a utility man. He played multiple positions, but was always a starter talent wise.

I think maybe some thought he was more McLemore than a Willie Bloomquist. I’m not sure. I just don’t recall a Wong type guy being a guy that caused difference of opinions. Springer or a Rosario did cause some discussion. If I remember correctly we were all on board with trading for Snell or Lindor which by defacto Lindor solved the 2B position.

 

[Anointed One]

Is it just me or is, “exit velocity” the most useless stat in baseball for a hitter?

 

[NWinAZ]

I think maybe some thought he was more McLemore than a Willie Bloomquist. I’m not sure. I just don’t recall a Wong type guy being a guy that caused difference of opinions. Springer or a Rosario did cause some discussion. If I remember correctly we were all on board with trading for Snell or Lindor which by defacto Lindor solved the 2B position.

Regarding Wong, I don't think people were arguing against him it was just a lot of people believed that additions were not needed either because they didn't want to see someone blocked or they thought current players were good enough. LaStella would have worked as well.

Snell at the right price, yes please. Lindor? I never saw that as working. You either get the guy for one year or if he was willing, doubtful, he stays at $300M+. No thanks to either scenario.

I want a true 9 man lineup over one huge Cano like signing and nothing else. 2001 was a miracle season, but the blueprint worked for the fact they extended the lineup as far as quality hitters went. We have 6 guys in the lineup any given night that a 1 for 4 would raise their average. Heck, 3 or 4 a night that a 1 for 5 would do the same.

 

[seattlefan75]

FWIW, I wasnt clamoring for Bauer or Springer type signings. I knew they weren't at that point. But at some point you do need to supplement with major league players. Not even super talented players but actual players. Brantley/Wong signings which @NWinAZ and I wanted wouldn't have blocked anyone significant and it raises the floor of the current team. I get giving guys time, but Dylan Moore is no part of the future and he is just wasting everyone's time by no fault of his own but because it was a cheap solution. White is up because he was a good boy and signed the contract. I agree he deserves more time but it would be more ideal if he was a #8 hitter instead of a #4 or #5.

I think there are some good things going on and I'm more upbeat then previous years but at the same time you there is way to many guys just overmatched in the lineup and it didnt need to be that way.

Yeah I definitely agree that 2nd base is a problem and I dont know if they thought Shed Long would be back but moore and haggerty arent moving the needle. I still feel that it isnt panic and frustration time because we are getting our butts kicked in by a team that actually does have superior players. I figure that management would assume that by the time Kelenic and Julio are both called up the Astros will be on their downhill.

 

[wazzu31]

Regarding Wong, I don't think people were arguing against him it was just a lot of people believed that additions were not needed either because they didn't want to see someone blocked or they thought current players were good enough. LaStella would have worked as well.

Snell at the right price, yes please. Lindor? I never saw that as working. You either get the guy for one year or if he was willing, doubtful, he stays at $300M+. No thanks to either scenario.

I want a true 9 man lineup over one huge Cano like signing and nothing else. 2001 was a miracle season, but the blueprint worked for the fact they extended the lineup as far as quality hitters went. We have 6 guys in the lineup any given night that a 1 for 4 would raise their average. Heck, 3 or 4 a night that a 1 for 5 would do the same.

I was just using the Snell and Lindor as examples of I think fans were united on getting either signing as free agents or trading for impact players like a Lindor or Snell. The Evan White thing is maddening in a way because the excuses they have used to keep Kelenic down are what we are seeing with White but he has 1B locked down no matter how bad he plays (it appears).

Agree 100% with lengthening the lineup, but the disagreement is on how to do that. It is hard to use 2001 as an example of how to build a team because I don’t think we will ever see another season like that where everyone on the roster, outside of Edgar, had a career year. Since then that is how the Mariners have operated except that offseason with Beltre and Sexson. Sign a bunch of buy low free agents and hope they pop.

 

[wazzu31]

Is it just me or is, “exit velocity” the most useless stat in baseball for a hitter?

I think launch angle has been more damaging to baseball but both suck. Niehaus saying that ball was belted right after it was hit was 1000x the effect rather than having the excitement of the call waiting until the dude rounds first and finding out launch angle and exit velocity.

But it is hard even for a die hard fan to watch games anymore because it is like sitting through math class.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Well they let us have fun for a couple weeks. But as the of tale of Mariners goes, it never lasts.

 

[Duders]

Yep, reality strikes again. Damn, I was actually letting myself get into the M's again. Watching Servais in post game was just like it's been for the past 4+ years. Same old shit....just a different season is all.

 

[NWinAZ]

Wade LeBlanc anyone? Seems almost inevitable.

 

[NWinAZ]

This has to end.

 

[NWinAZ]

It is hard to use 2001 as an example of how to build a team because I don’t think we will ever see another season like that where everyone on the roster, outside of Edgar, had a career year.

The example is how they made-up the lineup. Veteran hitters with success in the big leagues. No there won't be another 116 win season, but hitting is contagious, or lack of hitting as well, and being solid up and down the lineup changes the game tremendously.

2001/Career
Wilson .265/.262
Olerud .302/.295
Boone .331/.266
Guillen .259/.285
Bell .260/.257
Martin .240/.276
Cameron .267/.249
Ichiro Rookie
Edgar .306/.312
McLemore .286/.259
Javier .292/.269
Buhner .222/.254

Outside of Boone, roids, and Ichiro, rookie unknown, the numbers are pretty much the same. So hitting on Boone and Ichiro were obviously the difference and probably unattainable today in free agent signings but we aren't looking to win 116 just 90-95 would be nice. Solid over spectacular.