Monta + Asset for Gay...rumors start again

[CitySushi]

Per Ric Bucher, the trade of Monta Ellis + Asset for Rudy Gay is back out there, this time coming from the GS side. Us giving up Monta + another player? Unless that player is Charlie Bell, I don't see giving up anyone else in addition for Monta. That can't be right, can it?

 

[EKmane]

I hope not. I personally am hoping for a better defensive player. I'd rather us get Wesley Matthews and Batum for Ellis and filler+filler.

Monta Ellis NBA Trade Rumors: Portland Trail Blazers Might Have Players Golden State Warriors Desire - SB Nation Bay Area

 

[EKmane]

Shoot, I'd take a trade like Matthews and Camby for Ellis+filler also.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Oracle Arena is Open Again. Let the Questions Commence - Inside the Warriors - with Marcus Thompson

Q: What might it mean for the Warriors and who might they amnesty?

A: It means more cap space to sign free agents, as Golden State will be hot on the market for a big man. Guard Charlie Bell, who has one year left for $4 million, is the leading candidate to be an amnesty waive. Center Andris Biedrins is “a distant second,” per one team source. The Warriors would only use the amnesty if they needed to and had an agreement in place. If they can get who they want without using the amnesty, a couple team sources confirmed they will wait and use it another year.

Q: Who are the most likely free agent candidates to become Warriors at this point?

A: It’s far too early to speculate on who the Warriors will actually land. But sources have confirmed what the Warriors are going after. Their top priority is a big man and on their wish list is Nene, Dallas’ Tyson Chandler, Memphis’ Marc Gasol and the Los Angeles Clippers’ DeAndre Jordan. To a much lesser degree, the Warriors also have interest in Samuel Dalembert, but only at a good price. Keep an eye on free agent center Chuck Hayes, an Oakland native who may be a sleeper choice at center, and free agent forward Thaddeus Young, who fits the Warriors style pretty nicely.

Q: Will Monta Ellis be traded?

A: Not before the trade deadline. It would take a monster offer for the Warriors to even consider it, and those offers aren’t pouring in. New coach Mark Jackson wants a chance to coach Ellis, so he will get at least the first few months. Golden State will no doubt listen to offers in February, or whenever the trade deadline looms (say if Chicago comes calling). Doubtful they would pull the trigger then either.

 

[CitySushi]

What I would like to see happen is to make the following trade:

Monta & Biedrins

for

Roy & Matthews


Portland could amnesty Biedrins and the Warriors the same with Roy. Portland saves Millions of dollars owed as Roy makes 6M more per year and has an additional year. The Warriors get 15M in cap room to go along with a solid starting SG. The Blazers get a dynamic scorer to pair with their defensive wings.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Sounds like Ellis isn't going anywhere and kind of leaves the door open to kick out Bieds if we have a deal with a big time C.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Warriors' trade rumors coming fast and furious

 

[ChuckDurn]

What I would like to see happen is to make the following trade:

Monta & Biedrins

for

Roy & Matthews


Portland could amnesty Biedrins and the Warriors the same with Roy. Portland saves Millions of dollars owed as Roy makes 6M more per year and has an additional year. The Warriors get 15M in cap room to go along with a solid starting SG. The Blazers get a dynamic scorer to pair with their defensive wings.

Problem is, they wrote the amnesty rules in such a way that you can't trade for a guy and then amnesty him. Disappointing. The net is, we could only amnesty guys currently on our own roster. So, though I like this idea, it doesn't work.

 

[CitySushi]

Problem is, they wrote the amnesty rules in such a way that you can't trade for a guy and then amnesty him. Disappointing. The net is, we could only amnesty guys currently on our own roster. So, though I like this idea, it doesn't work.

Thanks for the clarification. Sucks they can't make it happen. Those crafty bastards thought of everything.

 

[vvoland]

What I would like to see happen is to make the following trade:

Monta & Biedrins

for

Roy & Matthews


Portland could amnesty Biedrins and the Warriors the same with Roy. Portland saves Millions of dollars owed as Roy makes 6M more per year and has an additional year. The Warriors get 15M in cap room to go along with a solid starting SG. The Blazers get a dynamic scorer to pair with their defensive wings.

so basically you'd want to trade monta for matthews straight up, netting about $6 mil in salary space? [we could, after all, simply amnesty beans without giving up monta and save $9 mil]

so.... REALLY? matthews for monta seems like a good deal to you? one of the best pure scorers in the league for a guy that's never scored over 16ppg.. that was in 33 mins/gm last year, btw. in 40min, monta put up 25. i'm assuming its because matthews is 5cm taller [i even used cm to make that an even bigger number.. 2in, just in case]. i really never understood the monta hate. shoots 45%, improves an aspect of his game every year [36% from 3 last year], top 5 in the league in steals. has games where he puts up 37/7/13 or 39/6/11/4[stls]... but yea, lets trade him for someone who's a dime a dozen in the nba. how is this not irrational? someone please explain this to me... is it because monta is 6'3? is it because he sounds mentally handicapped in interviews? he's a wizard with the ball in his hands. he shot 45% on a bad team where he was the only one that could create his own shot and was often left to bail out possessions with no time on the clock or facing double/triple teams. on a team like portland, he'd probably put up 25 while shooting 50%. this whole conversation is nuts!

 

[CitySushi]

so basically you'd want to trade monta for matthews straight up, netting about $6 mil in salary space? [we could, after all, simply amnesty beans without giving up monta and save $9 mil]

so.... REALLY? matthews for monta seems like a good deal to you? one of the best pure scorers in the league for a guy that's never scored over 16ppg.. that was in 33 mins/gm last year, btw. in 40min, monta put up 25. i'm assuming its because matthews is 5cm taller [i even used cm to make that an even bigger number.. 2in, just in case]. i really never understood the monta hate. shoots 45%, improves an aspect of his game every year [36% from 3 last year], top 5 in the league in steals. has games where he puts up 37/7/13 or 39/6/11/4[stls]... but yea, lets trade him for someone who's a dime a dozen in the nba. how is this not irrational? someone please explain this to me... is it because monta is 6'3? is it because he sounds mentally handicapped in interviews? he's a wizard with the ball in his hands. he shot 45% on a bad team where he was the only one that could create his own shot and was often left to bail out possessions with no time on the clock or facing double/triple teams. on a team like portland, he'd probably put up 25 while shooting 50%. this whole conversation is nuts!

You fail to see the point with the cap space. There is a huge difference in the caliber of player you're able to get with 9M in cap space vs. 15M. Do you see why?

It's essentially Monta + 9M player vs. Matthews + 15M Player. Especially considering the needs of this team, that additional 6M will go a long ways towards acquiring a legitimate big man. 9M, might not even get DeAndre Jordan, who's a tier below the top big men out there right now. We have multiple holes on our team and guess what....scoring isn't one of them. With the 15M in cap space, plus the additional space we have, we'd be able to round out our roster and essentially allow us to "start over", while skipping the whole tanking process. Of course, as Chuck pointed out, this cannot happen, so it's really a moot point right now.

But do you notice that our team has TWO backcourt players who need the ball in their hands? Matthews and Monta's scoring rates are not comparable since Matthews is not a focal point of the team. All you see is a stat line. If your points per game argument is the only thing you've got, then I don't see the point in arguing further.

In order for this team to succeed, you have to build a roster that fits together. Currently as it is, our team does not. I love Monta. When I first saw him play as a rookie I told everyone who would listen that he was going to be special. He has turned out to be a prolific scorer. Unfortunately, he's not the type of player you can build a team around. Curry is a player who we can. You have to pick and choose which player could lead you to long term success. The choice is pretty clear cut.

 

[vvoland]

You fail to see the point with the cap space. There is a huge difference in the caliber of player you're able to get with 9M in cap space vs. 15M. Do you see why?

It's essentially Monta + 9M player vs. Matthews + 15M Player. Especially considering the needs of this team, that additional 6M will go a long ways towards acquiring a legitimate big man. 9M, might not even get DeAndre Jordan, who's a tier below the top big men out there right now. We have multiple holes on our team and guess what....scoring isn't one of them. With the 15M in cap space, plus the additional space we have, we'd be able to round out our roster and essentially allow us to "start over", while skipping the whole tanking process. Of course, as Chuck pointed out, this cannot happen, so it's really a moot point right now.

But do you notice that our team has TWO backcourt players who need the ball in their hands? Matthews and Monta's scoring rates are not comparable since Matthews is not a focal point of the team. All you see is a stat line. If your points per game argument is the only thing you've got, then I don't see the point in arguing further.

In order for this team to succeed, you have to build a roster that fits together. Currently as it is, our team does not. I love Monta. When I first saw him play as a rookie I told everyone who would listen that he was going to be special. He has turned out to be a prolific scorer. Unfortunately, he's not the type of player you can build a team around. Curry is a player who we can. You have to pick and choose which player could lead you to long term success. The choice is pretty clear cut.

so who do you get for 15 mill THIS offseason? gasol is restricted.. so is jordan.. if we amnesty beans, it gives us an additional 9 mill to play with, i believe we currently have 10 or so but we have to sign the draft picks. again, does 15 mill get us nene? chandler? gasol.. do we blow the load on jordan, whom i like, but not for 10/per year. dalembert? its easy to say matthews plus a 15mill player without going into specifics.

that said, monta is far more than a prolific scorer. he's top 5 in steals and is actually a very underrated defender. he's had a ton of games with near triple doubles.. not just the two i mentioned above. if he had a big man that could finish, he'd be an even better distributor. he's not a volume shooter like crawford and i think he and curry can definitely play together. the onus here is on curry to get better defensively.

we do not have two guards that NEED the ball. think baron and monta.. curry is great off the ball and sees the floor very well. i think we have one of the best back courts in the league and we DO NOT need to break it up to get better. we need the same think we've needed since webber bounced.. help upfront. we either trade/amnesty beans, lee or both and rebuild with the cap space, draft picks, trade pieces, or all of the above. i actually think curry, monta, wright, udoh, beans is our best lineup right now. we need two solid defenders/rebounders at the 4/5 spots. lee kind of kills this team because of his lack of defense and inability to protect the rim.

finally, if i had to pick between monta and curry, i'd pick monta. and not because i thought he'd be special since his first summer league game [i also thought that about a. randolph]. its because, imo, i can find someone that can do most of what curry does plus some. i don't think you can replace 25/5/5/2 .. in fact, the only person to put up those numbers is wade, at least since jordan. [and its not just the scoring that's impressive, its the steals, assists, rebounding at his size]. on a real team, built the proper way, monta is a beast [think the 08 warriors, except with today's monta]. i really like curry, he exceeded all my expectations, but i don't think he can carry a team to a ring. i do think monta is one of the best shooting guards in the league [i'd take wade.. and that's it. kobes old.. rayray's old, jj is overrated and overpaid, monta is in his prime, cares about the game and keeps improving].

there's a half dozen point guards i'd take over curry [rose, paul, rondo, williams, wall, westbrook].. in fact, we could probablly trade curry for paul this february.

not to mention we'll need a max contract for curry and monta is very reasonably priced.

 

[CitySushi]

so who do you get for 15 mill THIS offseason? gasol is restricted.. so is jordan.. if we amnesty beans, it gives us an additional 9 mill to play with, i believe we currently have 10 or so but we have to sign the draft picks. again, does 15 mill get us nene? chandler? gasol.. do we blow the load on jordan, whom i like, but not for 10/per year. dalembert? its easy to say matthews plus a 15mill player without going into specifics.

that said, monta is far more than a prolific scorer. he's top 5 in steals and is actually a very underrated defender. he's had a ton of games with near triple doubles.. not just the two i mentioned above. if he had a big man that could finish, he'd be an even better distributor. he's not a volume shooter like crawford and i think he and curry can definitely play together. the onus here is on curry to get better defensively.

we do not have two guards that NEED the ball. think baron and monta.. curry is great off the ball and sees the floor very well. i think we have one of the best back courts in the league and we DO NOT need to break it up to get better. we need the same think we've needed since webber bounced.. help upfront. we either trade/amnesty beans, lee or both and rebuild with the cap space, draft picks, trade pieces, or all of the above. i actually think curry, monta, wright, udoh, beans is our best lineup right now. we need two solid defenders/rebounders at the 4/5 spots. lee kind of kills this team because of his lack of defense and inability to protect the rim.

finally, if i had to pick between monta and curry, i'd pick monta. and not because i thought he'd be special since his first summer league game [i also thought that about a. randolph]. its because, imo, i can find someone that can do most of what curry does plus some. i don't think you can replace 25/5/5/2 .. in fact, the only person to put up those numbers is wade, at least since jordan. [and its not just the scoring that's impressive, its the steals, assists, rebounding at his size]. on a real team, built the proper way, monta is a beast [think the 08 warriors, except with today's monta]. i really like curry, he exceeded all my expectations, but i don't think he can carry a team to a ring. i do think monta is one of the best shooting guards in the league [i'd take wade.. and that's it. kobes old.. rayray's old, jj is overrated and overpaid, monta is in his prime, cares about the game and keeps improving].

there's a half dozen point guards i'd take over curry [rose, paul, rondo, williams, wall, westbrook].. in fact, we could probablly trade curry for paul this february.

not to mention we'll need a max contract for curry and monta is very reasonably priced.

Appreciate the response. I don't want to turn this into one of those Curry vs. Monta debates, but I just think we view the team as a whole differently. When I look at the team I see a bunch of one way players. Lee, Monta, Curry, Udoh, Biedrins, etc. They are only reliable on one side of the court. I don't believe you can have a team that has one player with a deficiency and hope to have someone else make up for it. Two scorers with no defense, and two defensive players with no offense, don't counter each other out. It just makes the holes on the team more glaring.

Also using Monta's steals as a sign of his defensive strength is flawed. Very few, if not more than a handful of those steals, came on who he was actually guarding. He plays the passing lanes, and has good court awareness, but his on the ball defense is still terrible. Curry is very much in the same boat, if not worse than Monta on defense.

 

[vvoland]

Appreciate the response. I don't want to turn this into one of those Curry vs. Monta debates, but I just think we view the team as a whole differently. When I look at the team I see a bunch of one way players. Lee, Monta, Curry, Udoh, Biedrins, etc. They are only reliable on one side of the court. I don't believe you can have a team that has one player with a deficiency and hope to have someone else make up for it. Two scorers with no defense, and two defensive players with no offense, don't counter each other out. It just makes the holes on the team more glaring.

Also using Monta's steals as a sign of his defensive strength is flawed. Very few, if not more than a handful of those steals, came on who he was actually guarding. He plays the passing lanes, and has good court awareness, but his on the ball defense is still terrible. Curry is very much in the same boat, if not worse than Monta on defense.

i appreciate the respectful debate. btw, i'm thrilled i get to talk basketball now that the lockout is over. on to the point at hand. i was not using monta's steal numbers as indicative of his defense. if i was, i would have called it incredible D, i just think he's underrated. he doesn't get beat that often and the only guards that give him real problems are those with a good post game. he's slight and can be taken into the high block. otherwise, he's very competitive. at this point, i'd call his D average. the thing is, at his position, there are very few good defensive players who also score the ball. wade, manu, and... oj mayo? that's why i call him average. also, the 'if not worse than monta on defense' should read 'far worse...'

i don't really think its a monta v. curry debate. as i said, keep them both, upgrade the front court. while i don't think we can become a top 5 defensive team, i do think you can hide flaws with others' strength. the Cs are a top 2 defense despite the fact that ray allen couldn't guard my labrador. the mavs were very good last year despite dirk and kidd being atrocious on D. if this team had a starting five that included chandler, wright, and a true 4 like griffin, jsmoove, odom, gasol, ibaka, etc.. this would be a very good team. i think ellis is very good guarding on the perimeter. he has the quickness to stay in front [i'm afraid curry may never have that lateral movement] and is competitive on D. but he's a bit undersized and we have no one protecting the rim. that last part is why we were soooo verrrry bad on D.

perfect example is rondo. he's considered a great defender but is very much like ellis.. except he doesn't have to guard the other team's 2 guard. but with kg, perk [until last year's trade] and the philosophy in boston, the system allows him to gamble, disrupt offensive rhythm and shine defensively. he knows that if he gets beat, you still got two bigs that intimidate. living in boston, i've watched a lot of the Cs games. the rumored monta for rayray trade may have made me drop the warriors altogether, had it happened. i think we just need to surround our undersized but tremendously dynamic backcourt with bigs that can finish above the basket and protect the rim and we're a real contender. not to mention that our guards are young and should have an outstanding 6-8 years in them. its really hard to buy that kind of time.. well, unless you're miami.

we should be on a 2 year plan to revamp the frontcourt. amnesty lee, make a hard push for chandler or gasol, and get the missing big in a year or so. i'd be really interested in going after jefferson, mcgee, jordan, or jsmoove..