Mike Sando's offseason grades for every NFL team - ESPN Insider

[BigKen]

Geeezzzzz.......Camps haven't even opened and the swords are coming out........

 

[Rock Strongo]

I'm talking about the guy that has had terrible defenses forcing them to become one-dimensional. Look instead of us just going 3 pages fighting back and forth how about this time we just do the whole agree to disagree thing on this. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of our arguments. I'm not saying Manning is completely innocent in his playoff record as he has had some terrible games. At the same time he has had some games where he stepped off the field with the lead just needing his defense to make one stop only to have them lay a big time stinker. Or that great moment when his coach decided to call a time out for no reason at all giving the Jets an extra play that lead to them kicking the game winning field goal when time should have expired.

yeah, but you said he had "inferior teammates"

thats incredibly laughable. defensively? yeah. that can be argued.

but the guy played 90% of his career with 2 HOF WR's, a HOF back in james..and a year of faulk in his prime BEFORE he got to denver where they spent around him on guys like welker and tried buying a defense.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Skins A-

And I could care less. Unless I see it translating to the cott damn football field.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Skins A-

And I could care less. Unless I see it translating to the cott damn football field.

"has anyone seen lavar arrington?"

 

[cdumler7]

yeah, but you said he had "inferior teammates"

thats incredibly laughable. defensively? yeah. that can be argued.

but the guy played 90% of his career with 2 HOF WR's, a HOF back in james..and a year of faulk in his prime.

I'm not completely disagreeing with that. I will say it is two-fold in Manning helped make those guys HOF's where they also helped him. You put those guys with an average quarterback and their numbers maybe drop by half. Look at this past year with Decker. With Manning he was putting up top-10 WR numbers. He goes to the Jets and can't even break the 1000 yard mark and has gone back to looking like the average receiver he was before Manning came to town. Same with D. Thomas in his best season before Manning was 551 yards. The next season he almost tripled his best output. The same thing happened in Indy when he had guys going down with some injuries and was left with a WR core of no names. Next thing you know the whole league knows who they are. So don't sit here and act like these guys didn't get a nice boost from having Manning as their quarterback in their prime. Those RB's just look at the easy boxes they went up against. This past year no team went against lighter boxes for the RB's than that of the Broncos RB's. Unfortunately they had a terrible OL so teams didn't have to load up the box to stop the run.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

"has anyone seen lavar arrington?"

He's been hanging out with Brian Orakpo I think

 

[Rock Strongo]

I'm not completely disagreeing with that. I will say it is two-fold in Manning helped make those guys HOF's where they also helped him. You put those guys with an average quarterback and their numbers maybe drop by half. Look at this past year with Decker. With Manning he was putting up top-10 WR numbers. He goes to the Jets and can't even break the 1000 yard mark and has gone back to looking like the average receiver he was before Manning came to town. Same with D. Thomas in his best season before Manning was 551 yards. The next season he almost tripled his best output. The same thing happened in Indy when he had guys going down with some injuries and was left with a WR core of no names. Next thing you know the whole league knows who they are. So don't sit here and act like these guys didn't get a nice boost from having Manning as their quarterback in their prime. Those RB's just look at the easy boxes they went up against. This past year no team went against lighter boxes for the RB's than that of the Broncos RB's. Unfortunately they had a terrible OL so teams didn't have to load up the box to stop the run.

well decker was hurt all of last year and is simply a speed guy.

the jets have bigger problems than just QB. that was career suicide for him.

 

[cdumler7]

well decker was hurt all of last year and is simply a speed guy.

the jets have bigger problems than just QB. that was career suicide for him.

If you think Decker is a speed guy then I have to really question if you have actually watched him play football. For the Broncos he was a possession guy as he only runs a 4.54 forty. He got behind the defense a few times with the Broncos but that is mostly because coverage was slanted towards D. Thomas leaving Decker more one on one opportunities. When he did catch those passes though he was known as the guy who tripped on the invisible sprinkler heads trying to run away from defenders.

 

[cdumler7]

Also Decker didn't go to New York just for himself. A big part of it was more for his wife's career than for his own. It was one of the main criteria in his contract search.

 

[Rock Strongo]

If you think Decker is a speed guy then I have to really question if you have actually watched him play football. For the Broncos he was a possession guy as he only runs a 4.54 forty. He got behind the defense a few times with the Broncos but that is mostly because coverage was slanted towards D. Thomas leaving Decker more one on one opportunities. When he did catch those passes though he was known as the guy who tripped on the invisible sprinkler heads trying to run away from defenders.

ok, maybe speed guy was a poor choice in words. hes a big guy who gets open, and he isnt exactly slow. a 4.5 40 isnt terrible. its about average for a WR.

he doesnt jump for deeps balls, just uses his size. he gets a lot of PI calls. he has stone hands sometimes. single coverage vs mediocre corners gets him his yardage.

does this mean i have seen him play now?

 

[cdumler7]

ok, maybe speed guy was a poor choice in words. hes a big guy who gets open, and he isnt exactly slow. a 4.5 40 isnt terrible. its about average for a WR.

he doesnt jump for deeps balls, just uses his size. he gets a lot of PI calls. he has stone hands sometimes. single coverage vs mediocre corners gets him his yardage.

does this mean i have seen him play now?

Still no. He only drew one DPI this past season. How is that him getting a lot of PI calls? He also was in the top-10 for lowest percentage of dropped passes this past year of any receiver having over 100 passes thrown his way.

So again yeah not seeing how you have shown that you know him as a player.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Still no. He only drew one DPI this past season.

from 2013 - "Decker, as Mile High Report noted, calls for pass interference a lot. He also tends to refrain from going up for deep passes, failing to use his bulky frame to his advantage. Instead, he whines for calls during plays, which is nothing short of absolutely ridiculous."

that "a lot link" takes you here:

Eric Decker was brutally held, but maybe he's a broken record at this point when he's calling for a flag. No-call sets up a #Broncos punt.


so he does indeed call for a lot of PI flags...


He also was in the top-10 for lowest percentage of dropped passes this past year of any receiver having over 100 passes thrown his way.

from 2013 - "He's also going to need to clean up his drop rate. It's currently a miserable 12.5 percent, and that doesn't include many catches he should have made that aren't classified as drops. He can make some nice catches, but he drops far too many passes."

Additionally, it hasn't been just this year. He finished fifth in total drops last year, and, according to Pro Football Focus, he had a 12.37 percent drop rate.


i can do this all day. have YOU seen him play?

 

[Rock Strongo]

 

[cdumler7]

Still no. He only drew one DPI this past season.

from 2013 - "Decker, as Mile High Report noted, calls for pass interference a lot. He also tends to refrain from going up for deep passes, failing to use his bulky frame to his advantage. Instead, he whines for calls during plays, which is nothing short of absolutely ridiculous.

that "a lot link" takes you here:

Eric Decker was brutally held, but maybe he's a broken record at this point when he's calling for a flag. No-call sets up a #Broncos punt.


so he does indeed call for a lot of PI flags...


He also was in the top-10 for lowest percentage of dropped passes this past year of any receiver having over 100 passes thrown his way.

from 2013 - He's also going to need to clean up his drop rate. It's currently a miserable 12.5 percent, and that doesn't include many catches he should have made that aren't classified as drops. He can make some nice catches, but he drops far too many passes.

Additionally, it hasn't been just this year. He finished fifth in total drops last year, and, according to Pro Football Focus, he had a 12.37 percent drop rate.


i can do this all day.

Well I wasn't wrong when I said he only drew one PI call. Just because he calls for a bunch of them doesn't mean that he gets them. Also your articles are from a couple of years ago where my stats are from this past year.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2014

This shows the stats for all receivers. In the 2nd column of receivers Decker is about in the middle. At the very end it shows DPI calls that went the receivers way. Decker ended up getting 1 call that netted the team 6 yards.

As for the Drop Rate yes he had a few more drops with the Broncos. he also had a major shoulder injury that played into that. When coming out of college he was known for only having dropped one pass his entire time in college. This past year when his shoulder was healed up his drop rate went down to one of the best in the league. Again not knowing his injury while with the Broncos jsut shows once again a lack of knowledge about the player.

Care to go again?

 

[Rock Strongo]

Well I wasn't wrong when I said he only drew one PI call. Just because he calls for a bunch of them doesn't mean that he gets them. Also your articles are from a couple of years ago where my stats are from this past year.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2014

This shows the stats for all receivers. In the 2nd column of receivers Decker is about in the middle. At the very end it shows DPI calls that went the receivers way. Decker ended up getting 1 call that netted the team 6 yards.

As for the Drop Rate yes he had a few more drops with the Broncos. he also had a major shoulder injury that played into that. When coming out of college he was known for only having dropped one pass his entire time in college. This past year when his shoulder was healed up his drop rate went down to one of the best in the league. Again not knowing his injury while with the Broncos jsut shows once again a lack of knowledge about the player.

Care to go again?

why? i was right.

 

[cdumler7]

why? i was right.

Wow would I love to live in your world. So you found an article that supported your claim. The only thing it had that even half way supported you was his drop rate with the Broncos but yet again that doesn't show you actually know the player considering you didn't know about his shoulder injury that made it very difficult to lift up his dominant arm and made his grip weaker making it harder to catch passes. Throw in Manning throws a more difficult pass because it is not a perfect spiral. He goes to the Jets and low and behold he has one of the best drop rates in the league just like what his scouting report said coming out of college when now his shoulder is actually healed up.

You called him a speed receiver then later said he still has speed but is considered an average speed receiver. That makes 0 sense. If he has average speed then you can't consider him a speed guy. Then you said that he gets a lot of PI calls yet he only got one this past year and you presented me with an article talking about how he always throws his hands up in the air towards the officials to get a PI call. That has nothing to do with him actually getting a call. Bronco fans complained all the time of how Decker would rather look for the PI call than actually go and fight for the ball. So again how have you shown yourself to be right in actually knowing what type of player Decker is? Every time I have shown you wrong you just change your tune a little and hope that you are right when you change what you "think" of him. If you couldn't get it right the first time then obviously you don't know the player.

 

[Rock Strongo]

"Manning stinks in the postseason because of the inferior talent around him"

 

[cdumler7]

Haha so you look like an idiot pretending to know a player and go back to idiot comebacks. You break down one of my sentences without actually acknowledging that I also said Manning is at fault as well for his playoff record. I just realize that there is more to things than just one player on the field.

 

[Wolverine830872]

Should the jaguars even be given a letter grade. Shouldn't we just give them a gold star and a thanks for playing?

 

[dredinis21]

SF with a D+?
Exactly what did they do to raise their rating above an F+?

First off, YOU sir, are a dick.

Second, we get an F just based on how the coaching change had been handled from start to finish. However, IMO, the roster planning that has happened over the past two drafts gives them at least a D+ in my book, with the potential to be much better if/when these high value picks that redshirted can step up and play up to their talent levels.

Lastly, you are still a dick.