Michael Crabtree

[threelittleturds]

Crabtree can only dream about making girls open their legs when he catches balls.

Ha Ha, I wouldn't even have noticed that if you didn't point it out. I was too busy watching the catch to see the girl's reaction.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

Just goes to show how much people really know. There were a bunch of us on ESPN that thought it was a horrible pick and that Crabtree was massively overrated.

IIRC I think Pozz had Nicks as his top WR. Bingo had Harvin (even though he was a big Crabtree fan). I had Britt.

I remember you and IMAC didn't like the Crabtree pick at all. I thought he was gonna be great. I still think he has a shot at being very good but I'm running out of patience.

 

[deep9er]

I remember you and IMAC didn't like the Crabtree pick at all. I thought he was gonna be great. I still think he has a shot at being very good but I'm running out of patience.

pretty close to my opinion too, thought he'd be an NFL #1 level receiver. he was a top 5 prospect that year and we got him at #10, was happy such talent fell to us.

agree he has a shot at being good, but don't want to say "very good".

 

[CalamityX11]

He was clearly the one of the few who failed to show up come playoff time...

 

[MHSL82]

We really need Juron Criner! Alex Smith has a tendency to throw high, and I am confident that Criner would be the type of receiver that can constently adjust and make those tough Larry Fitzgerald / Brandon Lloyd type like acrobatic catches (bailing Smith out).

Alex tends to throw high to players he doesn't have much chemistry with (I know, a bit of a circular reference). I don't see him doing that with Davis and Walker much, though we do throw different passes to them than to our receivers. So, if he builds good chemistry with Criner and the throws aren't so high we'll be wasting his talents!

 

[MW49ers5]

Apparently you're referring to the addition of Edwards? I thought you were implying that Morgan had bumped Crabtree, which I don't agree with. I read the Edwards move as an attempt to get another starting-caliber receiver to play alongside Crabtree. Obviously the hope was that Edwards would be our #1, but that was never guaranteed. And Crabtree was still intended to be a starter, so demotion isn't really an accurate term in this context IMO. When healthy, Crabtree has always been a starter and turned out to be our go-to receiver all season.

As far as the Gore comparison, it has virtually no bearing here. First, you only start one RB as opposed to two WRs. There is every indication that we still expected Crabtree to be a starter despite adding Edwards. Second, if we had a chance to bring in arguably the best RB in the league, you're damn right we would have done it. But Edwards is hardly the best WR in the league. A more apt comparison might be if we had a chance to bring in DeAngelo Williams on a one-year deal. I think we would have done that in a second if he came in at a bargain price.

This offseason, our top priority in my mind is to get another starting caliber WR to play alongside Crabtree. Ideally that person will become our go-to guy, but I'm not entirely sold that will happen this season. Crabtree isn't assured a starting job, but assuming we bring Morgan back and either draft a WR high or get one of the big names in FA, I think Crabtree still starts. If we draft one high and get a big-name FA, Crabtree might be in danger of losing his slot. But that's next year, not this past year. I never claimed Crabtree was a true #1 receiver, just that he's been our #1 receiver.

Finally, re: consistency, my biggest complaint with Morgan is his tendency to disappear in games for long stretches. Obviously Crabtree has done that from time to time as well, but until this year, Morgan had never really strung together more than two good games. Even this year Morgan he didn't string together multiple games that suggest he's anything more than a tolerable second receiver. I think he is better as a third guy. Crabtree put together quite a few good games toward the end of this season, and would be an ideal #2 guy to play opposite a big-play threat.

I'm not sure what statistical measure you are looking at when you claim that Morgan is more consistent. This season he seemed to get over his own struggles with drops, but prior to this year that was as big a problem for him as it's been for Crabtree. And as said, Morgan has a tendency to disappear in games much more often than Crabtree.

I like Morgan, but I don't think he has ever shown much sustained consistency. I'm not crazy about Crabtree, but IMO he's the best we've got right now, including our own FAs.

Wow...good to see your sense of humor is still in tact, Crimson. While I can appreciate the passion with which you state your opinions in defense of your belief that Morgan is incapable of replacing Crabtree on our roster, I will continue to know that he can...

I do agree with one thing you wrote here, which is that Crabtree is not assured a starting position next season. However, one thing that is assured is the scrutiny of his disappearing act this post-season; and, if the coaches determine that he owns the lions share of his disappearing act, then he will absolutely have one foot out the door.

Here are a couple things I found that I felt were relevant to this discussion.

The first is a link to one of Harbaugh's press conferences between the Saints & Giants game. Harbaugh, as we all know, is always supportive when asked about his players; well, not this time. The question at 6:20 asks Harbaugh if he see's Crabtree as our #1 WR and how well he feels Crabtree has performed this season. Harbaugh's answer is clearly not a vote of confidence.

Harbaugh Stammers When Asked About Crabtree


The following is an excerpt from Cohn's interview titled:

Smith Has Played It Safe; So Far That's Been Good Enough

NFL Expert Says Smith Has Absolutely Earned The Right To Be The Starter Next Season


Q: Can Smith make all the throws?

Expert:

You're asking the wrong question. It's not if he can. But will he? If he doesn't think it's sure-fire, he won't throw it. Brett Favre and Drew Brees will take the shot. Some quarterbacks think, 'You're supposed to be an all-star receiver, you make play.' There are more great catches than throws. If a quarterback waits until a guy is a lock to be wide open, those throws would be few and far between.

If the 49ers had better wide receivers, Smith might have a better opportunity for his receivers to go get it, to go make catches for him. Part of his reticence could be who is on the other end as the intended receiver. Last year [2010] I wouldn't throw anything at Michael Crabtree. He wasted a whole season. He was a dog.

Not a ringing endorsement for any of our WR's, but the choice to single out Crabtree makes perfect sense to me...

It will be interesting to see how our FO or coaching staff settles this debate.

 

[Flyingiguana]

'You're supposed to be an all-star receiver, you make play.'

we were down to the practice squad guys...

these guys wouldn't make the cfl all star team

 

[MW49ers5]

we were down to the practice squad guys...

these guys wouldn't make the cfl all star team

Correct...the expert was clearly NOT referring to those WR's...

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Wow...good to see your sense of humor is still in tact, Crimson. While I can appreciate the passion with which you state your opinions in defense of your belief that Morgan is incapable of replacing Crabtree on our roster, I will continue to know that he can...

I do agree with one thing you wrote here, which is that Crabtree is not assured a starting position next season. However, one thing that is assured is the scrutiny of his disappearing act this post-season; and, if the coaches determine that he owns the lions share of his disappearing act, then he will absolutely have one foot out the door.

Here are a couple things I found that I felt were relevant to this discussion.

The first is a link to one of Harbaugh's press conferences between the Saints & Giants game. Harbaugh, as we all know, is always supportive when asked about his players; well, not this time. The question at 6:20 asks Harbaugh if he see's Crabtree as our #1 WR and how well he feels Crabtree has performed this season. Harbaugh's answer is clearly not a vote of confidence.

Harbaugh Stammers When Asked About Crabtree


The following is an excerpt from Cohn's interview titled:

Smith Has Played It Safe; So Far That's Been Good Enough

NFL Expert Says Smith Has Absolutely Earned The Right To Be The Starter Next Season


Q: Can Smith make all the throws?

Expert:

You're asking the wrong question. It's not if he can. But will he? If he doesn't think it's sure-fire, he won't throw it. Brett Favre and Drew Brees will take the shot. Some quarterbacks think, 'You're supposed to be an all-star receiver, you make play.' There are more great catches than throws. If a quarterback waits until a guy is a lock to be wide open, those throws would be few and far between.

If the 49ers had better wide receivers, Smith might have a better opportunity for his receivers to go get it, to go make catches for him. Part of his reticence could be who is on the other end as the intended receiver. Last year [2010] I wouldn't throw anything at Michael Crabtree. He wasted a whole season. He was a dog.

Not a ringing endorsement for any of our WR's, but the choice to single out Crabtree makes perfect sense to me...

It will be interesting to see how our FO or coaching staff settles this debate.

I didn't say Morgan couldn't replace Crabtree. I said I think Crabtree is the better receiver. If Crabtree walks and Morgan takes over a starting role, I think that's a decrease in our receiving corps. How much? It's hard for me to say at this point as Morgan was injured just as he appeared to be catching on in the system. But Morgan has often appeared to be catching on for a game or two before disappearing again. If we use Crabtree's cap room to add Vincent Jackson or Dwayne Bowe or Marques Colston, that guy with Morgan would be an upgrade overall. I'm skeptical we'll make that kind of move, though.

You're all over the map with the rest of this stuff. To get back on track: you said Crabtree was rightfully demoted. I disagree that he was demoted, or that it was rightful if he was, as he was injured at the time. I gave my reasons. When you say he was demoted, what do you mean? Who bumped him, and from what role to what role? What was his role in week four, when he started and led the team in receptions and yards?

I note you didn't respond re: the Gore comparison. I'll just assume you are conceding it was a bad example.

The rest of what you've said above doesn't address Crabtree's role this past season. He was our #1 wide receiver. That's undisputed. I suppose you could argue that Morgan supplanted him for a couple weeks due to the injury. I would disagree with that. Crabtree saw by far the most targets in his first game back from the injury. He was pulled the next week when the Niners pulled their key personnel. I think by that point he was already back as the #1. If you disagree, that's fine. What are your reasons?

Harbaugh's opinion of Crabtree as a go-to receiver is not relevant to the discussion of his role on the team this season. If the question had been, "Who is this team's #1 wide receiver," I don't think Harbaugh would have hesitated because the answer was obvious. Instead, he was asked, "Do you think Crabtree is [a #1] receiver."

Neither Harbaugh nor I, nor apparently this scout who weighed in on Crabtree's 2010 season, think Crabtree is a true #1 receiver. I simply think he's the best that we have at present. I realize that's not saying much. Don't mistake it for conviction in Crabtree's ability. I'm just skeptical of the rest of the field until and unless they actually prove it on the field. I've been clear all along in saying I think Crabtree's a pretty good #2 guy, but still far from being a true #1 and pretty unlikely to get there at this point. I don't see another guy on this roster who is a #1 receiver right now, though.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Oh, and the expert's choice to single out Michael Crabtree does make perfect sense: he was our most viable receiver in 2010. The fact that he was our top receiver despite being "a dog" is as much a commentary on guys like Morgan and Ginn as it is on Michael Crabtree.

 

[MW49ers5]

I didn't say Morgan couldn't replace Crabtree. I said I think Crabtree is the better receiver. If Crabtree walks and Morgan takes over a starting role, I think that's a decrease in our receiving corps. How much? It's hard for me to say at this point as Morgan was injured just as he appeared to be catching on in the system. But Morgan has often appeared to be catching on for a game or two before disappearing again. If we use Crabtree's cap room to add Vincent Jackson or Dwayne Bowe or Marques Colston, that guy with Morgan would be an upgrade overall. I'm skeptical we'll make that kind of move, though.

You're all over the map with the rest of this stuff. To get back on track: you said Crabtree was rightfully demoted. I disagree that he was demoted, or that it was rightful if he was, as he was injured at the time. I gave my reasons. When you say he was demoted, what do you mean? Who bumped him, and from what role to what role? What was his role in week four, when he started and led the team in receptions and yards?

I note you didn't respond re: the Gore comparison. I'll just assume you are conceding it was a bad example.

The rest of what you've said above doesn't address Crabtree's role this past season. He was our #1 wide receiver. That's undisputed. I suppose you could argue that Morgan supplanted him for a couple weeks due to the injury. I would disagree with that. Crabtree saw by far the most targets in his first game back from the injury. He was pulled the next week when the Niners pulled their key personnel. I think by that point he was already back as the #1. If you disagree, that's fine. What are your reasons?

Harbaugh's opinion of Crabtree as a go-to receiver is not relevant to the discussion of his role on the team this season. If the question had been, "Who is this team's #1 wide receiver," I don't think Harbaugh would have hesitated because the answer was obvious. Instead, he was asked, "Do you think Crabtree is [a #1] receiver."

Neither Harbaugh nor I, nor apparently this scout who weighed in on Crabtree's 2010 season, think Crabtree is a true #1 receiver. I simply think he's the best that we have at present. I realize that's not saying much. Don't mistake it for conviction in Crabtree's ability. I'm just skeptical of the rest of the field until and unless they actually prove it on the field. I've been clear all along in saying I think Crabtree's a pretty good #2 guy, but still far from being a true #1 and pretty unlikely to get there at this point. I don't see another guy on this roster who is a #1 receiver right now, though.

No, no, I just kept my response short because the topic is limited.

Me:
I believe Morgan would be more to much more productive with Crabtree's targets and I know the evidence, when viewed objectively and correctly, fully supports that opinion (which is kind of why I have that opinion in the first place).

You:
You disagree.

We:
Are done here...

Nothing personal, but you are incapable of changing my opinion just as I am incapable of changing yours which makes this a good place to end this discussion.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

No, no, I just kept my response short because the topic is limited.

Me:
I believe Morgan would be more to much more productive with Crabtree's targets and I know the evidence, when viewed objectively and correctly, fully supports that opinion (which is kind of why I have that opinion in the first place).

You:
You disagree.

We:
Are done here...

Nothing personal, but you are incapable of changing my opinion just as I am incapable of changing yours which makes this a good place to end this discussion.

I'm not trying to change our opinion. I'm trying to clarify your opinion. The problem once again is that you have not (until just now) clearly stated a position, and you cite "the evidence" without providing any of it. You mentioned "with Crabtree's targets." I think the fact that Morgan doesn't get Crabtree's targets is telling, and part of why I question Morgan's consistency.

If Crabtree is gone next year and Morgan is back, you can come back here, tell me you told me so, and I'll eat crow. I think Crabtree sticks at least one more season.

 

[MW49ers5]

I'm not trying to change our opinion. I'm trying to clarify your opinion. The problem once again is that you have not (until just now) clearly stated a position, and you cite "the evidence" without providing any of it. You mentioned "with Crabtree's targets." I think the fact that Morgan doesn't get Crabtree's targets is telling, and part of why I question Morgan's consistency.

If Crabtree is gone next year and Morgan is back, you can come back here, tell me you told me so, and I'll eat crow. I think Crabtree sticks at least one more season.

I just reviewed the thread and it seems as though my opinions were clearly stated, but just in case, here they are again: Crabtree was demoted and I would take Morgan over Crabtree.

 

[NinerSickness]

and I would take Morgan over Crabtree.

Although I was one of the original Crabby haters I wouldn't take Morgan over him. Crabby is a decent #2 IMO. Morgan's more like a #3.

 

[Flyingiguana]

morgan is more versatile than crabtree as a reciever imo. i think crabtree will be at his best on the underneath stuff and on slants. but crabtree needs to regain the hands he showed at texas tech.

i think we go into next year with morgan 2a and crabtree 2b assuming we sign someone, even if it's only lloyd

 

[MW49ers5]

morgan is more versatile than crabtree as a reciever imo. i think crabtree will be at his best on the underneath stuff and on slants. but crabtree needs to regain the hands he showed at texas tech.

i think we go into next year with morgan 2a and crabtree 2b assuming we sign someone, even if it's only lloyd

I Agree 100%!

 

[MW49ers5]

Although I was one of the original Crabby haters I wouldn't take Morgan over him. Crabby is a decent #2 IMO. Morgan's more like a #3.

Here is something I didn't think I would say two years ago, I would take DHB over Crabtree in a heartbeat...(Keep in mind I wanted neither in '09!) But after the start Crabtree had and the start DHB had, I am impressed with how DHB has improved; meanwhile, Crabtree has stagnated or even regressed.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Although I was one of the original Crabby haters I wouldn't take Morgan over him. Crabby is a decent #2 IMO. Morgan's more like a #3.

At this point I agree. Morgan has shown more big-play ability, but he comes and goes as a producer. I love Morgan as a teammate and I am intrigued by his ability, but he has never shown me the consistent production necessary to be a solid starter in an increasingly pass-happy league.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Here is something I didn't think I would say two years ago, I would take DHB over Crabtree in a heartbeat...(Keep in mind I wanted neither in '09!) But after the start Crabtree had and the start DHB had, I am impressed with how DHB has improved; meanwhile, Crabtree has stagnated or even regressed.

That's just silly. Even you conceded he showed improvement over the second half of the season. With this statement, it seems as if you're jumping on the "he disappeared in the postseason so we should cut him" bandwagon. That's a pretty narrow view, IMO.

 

[MW49ers5]

That's just silly. Even you conceded he showed improvement over the second half of the season. With this statement, it seems as if you're jumping on the "he disappeared in the postseason so we should cut him" bandwagon. That's a pretty narrow view, IMO.

Crimson, just for the sake of accuracy, I never 'conceded' that Crabtree had shown improvement over the second half of the season; for, in order for such a statement to be truthful I would have had to at some point argued to the contrary and I have never once stated otherwise.

However, and despite Crabtree's excellent second half of the 2011 season my comments regarding his career performance are correct and accurate.

As for his postseason performance, I don't think this "he disappeared in the postseason so we should cut him" is a bandwagon at all. When combined with his overall career performance and his attitudes I think it is a valid sentiment.

Furthermore, now that we are a playoff team, if his disappearance in the postseason was as bad as some have indicated and was due mostly to a lack of effort and/or ability on his part, then I would assume with some degree of certainty, that this sentiment is a legitimate threat as well.