meltzer's hockeybuzz post

[awaz]

I can't believe the basis of this argument is that Homer screwed up the Cap by assembling too many good players...

thats not really what i'm saying, at least its not what i'm trying to say.. all good teams are going to be up against the cap unless they drafted superstars who are still on rookie contracts.. it only makes sense, good players cost a lot..

really as far as contracts go i wouldn't consider any on the team a bad contract at this point.. hartnell is overpaid if he plays like last year, timmo's hit is a little high, but up until pronger came in he was far and away our best d-man.. you can argue that briere's is high, but he's one of the best playoff performers in the league.... mm the shelley one is bad, not sure what that was about, but having the 'worst' contract be a guy getting paid 1.1 mil isn't too bad

i'm not really even saying he's done a terrible job with the cap, there are places where he could've improved, like this off-season, i dont know if you read where i talked about the order of the things he did this off-season.. a couple changes in the order and he probably could've gotten more for gags, had more cap room, and a better goalie.. and thats just simply changing the order

 

[PenVolution]

I looked at Kopitar's numbers and I lol'd.

 

[anderwho2513]

Mike Richards >>>> (times infinity) Anze Kopitar.

SupahMario confirms that as FACT!

 

[WOOTPOKER]

many people dont realize the situation the flyers will be involved with in a year or two.

carters salary will go from 5 to 6.5 mil at least.
giroux will go from 800K to 3-4 mil
JVR will go from 1.2 mil to around 2.5 mil depending on how he produces
leino will go up at least a mil or two depending on his production

overall we are gonna be going up 7-8 mil to give all these guys raises. unfortunately, one of leino, coburn, hartnell, or JVR will have to go within a year or two unless we move someone else.

 

[anderwho2513]

Or, one of Carle or Coburn goes. I don't think you realize what Meszaros actually brings to the table. He's the exact same player as Carle, but 3 inches taller, 25 lbs heavier, and a lot grittier.

 

[ProppRules]

Awaz, I wasn;t really directing that at you, or anyone in this thread in particular. But the argument that this team has too many players that need raises soon being a bad thing annoys me. We could be Columbus. THey never have that problem...

 

[PenVolution]

Or, one of Carle or Coburn goes. I don't think you realize what Meszaros actually brings to the table. He's the exact same player as Carle, but 3 inches taller, 25 lbs heavier, and a lot grittier.

Sounds like your profiling a p0rn star.

 

[anderwho2513]

Sounds like your profiling a p0rn star.

3 inches taller and 25 lbs heavier?!

 

[Vadered]

3 inches taller and 25 lbs heavier?!

That emoticon is about what it would take to fit, yes.

 

[h X c Chris]

Dont you guys realize that Carterchuk is going to get a 17 year deal worth 103 mil with a cap hit of 5mil? Come on everybody has to know that Holmgren already has this contract set up and ready to be signed tomorrow.

 

[awaz]

Awaz, I wasn;t really directing that at you, or anyone in this thread in particular. But the argument that this team has too many players that need raises soon being a bad thing annoys me. We could be Columbus. THey never have that problem...

alright thats fair.. thought it was directed toward me haha.. i think the problem is that the flyers are going to run into serious trouble when the talent runs dry on the farm in a couple years.. the key to staying a cup contender, is to have guys like giroux, leino, and jvr that are playing way above their contract because its a rookie contract..

there's a huge difference when you're role players are guys like giroux and leino, who play above their contracts.. and when they're guys like carcillo and shelley who are only making that much cause they have to and because they've been in the league a long time.. i think thats what chicago is going to get slapped in the face with this season

 

[TOX1]

many people dont realize the situation the flyers will be involved with in a year or two.

carters salary will go from 5 to 6.5 mil at least.
giroux will go from 800K to 3-4 mil
JVR will go from 1.2 mil to around 2.5 mil depending on how he produces
leino will go up at least a mil or two depending on his production

overall we are gonna be going up 7-8 mil to give all these guys raises. unfortunately, one of leino, coburn, hartnell, or JVR will have to go within a year or two unless we move someone else.

Good to see you jump in WOOT!! Long time, no see man.

Like you said, someone is going to have to be moved to make ends meet, but that's big business, right?

 

[ProppRules]

Agreed Awaz. I have always thought that since the Cap became an issue the team with the most young players outperforming their rookie contracts would win the Cup. THe Hawks are an obvious example. The Pens did the same thing last year. The Pens did a good job of holding onto most of their talent, but they lost key pieces too.
THe FLyers have never been shy about paying out money to cover mistakes. I could easily see players like Shelley finishing out their time here in Adirondack. I still don't get that signing... It is tough to have a constant pipeline of Giroux's when you are willing to make moves for Pronger. I understand both sides of those trades. If you don't make it, you have a pipeline. If you do, and Pronger doesn't age too fast, he gives you a win-now shot. Obviously young guys ready to step in would be great. But now, it is going to be vital that Homer makes the right decisions on who to pay to retain, and who can bring back value. THat is the thing with Carter. I understand fully why they don't want to trade a 25 yr oild with that skill. BUt, I still think that getting rid of his potential salary next year, dealing from a position of strength (Center) and potential trade return made him the guy to be moved. BUt then, I don't really know what trades were available.

 

[awaz]

-propp

ya i can see the reason to hold onto carter.. i'm glad i wasn't homer and having to decide between gagne and carter.. theres risks to both sides of it.. you could move carter and then have the cap flexibility + more return like i suggested, but then if gags gets concussed again you're screwed.. or carter could blow up and have another 40 goal 80 pt season.. or you could do like homer did and have a the stickier cap next off-season, less return, and the streakier player that has a bigger upside

 

[indyflyr]

i'm not over the moon with either gagne or carter. so if we end up moving both, then so be it. the only question for carter is return on investment. and if he is ultimately going to have to be moved, as early cap indications seem to demand, then the farther away from RA status you get the more his value will increase. if we wait until after the playoffs it's too late.

the real culprit here is not our cap situation, but rather the NTC's we have on the books. we could move a guy like hartnell or briere and keep carter. but they have to waive the clause. i think if holmer is to learn anything it would be that NTC's should only be extended to franchise players. otherwise your stuck having to hold less talented players and trade the good ones.

 

[awaz]

well they did move one of the NTC's.. now they only have a couple left.. briere, hartnell, and pronger i think are the only ones that have NTC's now.. and timo maybe.. the later 2 probably wouldn't get traded anyway.. and as long as carter underperforms in the playoffs briere will be here to overperform.. hartnell is the only bad one, but if he doesn't show last year was a fluke, its a very bad one

 

[indyflyr]

agreed. but the reality still existed heading into this summer that we had 5 guys with NTC's totaling 31.05 million. that doesn't leave a g.m. with a lot of flexibility to move the chess pieces around.

also it would be one thing if we had crosby, or ovechkin carrying the mail. that is worth an NTC. but briere, great as he is, is a power play specialist. great playoff guy. but he and hartnell, particularly hartnell, have no business getting NTC's. i can see kimmo and pronger, not that i like it. but they really stabilized the back end. and it's no accident that this team found success when they both arrived. so i get those NTC's. i just think holmer should simply adopt the "no more" under any circumstances approach to NTC's.

 

[ProppRules]

I don't worry about NTC's too much. It is the length of some of the contracts that makes them truly untradeable. More importantly, they become contracts that can't be eaten.

 

[awaz]

ya i agree he shouldn't be offering any more.. i think the initial blitz of them was to get guys to come to philly after being the worst team in the league.. sometimes you gotta make sacrifices to get guys to come to a 'terrible' team.. thats why briere, timmo, and hartnell got them..

 

[FlyerFinFan]

ya i agree he shouldn't be offering any more.. i think the initial blitz of them was to get guys to come to philly after being the worst team in the league.. sometimes you gotta make sacrifices to get guys to come to a 'terrible' team.. thats why briere, timmo, and hartnell got them..

Yep dead on Awaz. No way those guys even sign here at that time without the clause keeping their families secure. Now that they've proven to be a cup contender that shouldn't be an issue for quite a few years.