MBBRL Official Thread

[Philabuster5]

Last call on Andrelton Simmons!

I still really like andrelton.... if I could deal reyes, I'd make a push.

 

[TKOSpikes]

you have your chance for free tomorrow... (hopefully)

 

[TKOSpikes]

Is it just me, or do any of you get the feeling like we're missing out on doubles? Triples are one thing, they're kind of fluky (for the most part), and rare, so I understand not having that as a cat, but doubles are a big difference maker, are they not? I don't know, maybe I'm over thinking, but the more I do think about it, it makes me think how terrible 5x5 cats are. It's just not enough, no matter which way you slice it. Two guys go 2-4, one with two doubles, one with two singles; I think the doubler should gain the advantage. (maybe OPS would handle this as well) -- I would think one of these two options are the best way to handle a H2H category league.

R, HR, SB, RBI, OBP, 2B x W, SV, QS, K, ERA, WHIP

R, HR, SB, RBI, AVG, OPS x W, SV, QS, K, ERA, WHIP

(put this in the AVG vs OBP thread as well)

thoughts?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Is it just me, or do any of you get the feeling like we're missing out on doubles? Triples are one thing, they're kind of fluky (for the most part), and rare, so I understand not having that as a cat, but doubles are a big difference maker, are they not? I don't know, maybe I'm over thinking, but the more I do think about it, it makes me think how terrible 5x5 cats are. It's just not enough, no matter which way you slice it. Two guys go 2-4, one with two doubles, one with two singles; I think the doubler should gain the advantage. (maybe OPS would handle this as well) -- I would think one of these two options are the best way to handle a H2H category league.

R, HR, SB, RBI, OBP, 2B x W, SV, QS, K, ERA, WHIP

R, HR, SB, RBI, AVG, OPS x W, SV, QS, K, ERA, WHIP

(put this in the AVG vs OBP thread as well)

thoughts?

100% disagree... the thing is that the 5 categories should be separate... to have any category that is dependent on another is bad... Thats why I hate OPS, as a fantasy stat...

 

[TKOSpikes]

like I said, the OPS thing can get tricky because I agree they should be separate, but you can't take out HR.

...but what about doubles? you think they're insignificant?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

like I said, the OPS thing can get tricky because I agree they should be separate, but you can't take out HR.

...but what about doubles? you think they're insignificant?

I do think doubles are irrelevant... People like the points system because it can measure everything, but the 2 problems i have with it is that i disagree with the weight they give every stat to measure, and all points are the same and it doesnt matter how you get the points...

When you do categories, because it demands balance it has to measure more generically...

Not sure if that makes sense, but it makes sense to me...

 

[TKOSpikes]

I agree with balance ... but not when a double balances with a single, that's all...

 

[Reverend Jim]

I would think one of these two options are the best way to handle a H2H category league.

R, HR, SB, RBI, OBP, 2B x W, SV, QS, K, ERA, WHIP

R, HR, SB, RBI, AVG, OPS x W, SV, QS, K, ERA, WHIP

(put this in the AVG vs OBP thread as well)

thoughts?

We use the second version in my keeper league plus one more category in each. We tired several different categories and combinations over the years, but those have worked out well.

We also changed saves to Saves+Holds, and while it has lowered the value of closers (back to where it should be IMO), overall everyone likes it and it's less of a scramble to the waiver wire if a closer goes down.

 

[Chef99]

Hey Sammy, getting back to you about Arenado's D - While it's still way early in his career, this kid could go down as one of the greats. What an absolute pleasure it is to watch him play.

 

[tlance]

like I said, the OPS thing can get tricky because I agree they should be separate, but you can't take out HR.

...but what about doubles? you think they're insignificant?

I agree about the importance of balance, but disagree about the separation.

Pitching stats all work together, so shy do hitting stats need to be separate? A pitcher who does not allow many base-runners is more likely to post a low ERA and therefor get more wins. Are they not somewhat redundant?

 

[tlance]

What about this:

Offense:
R, HR, RBI, SB, OBP, (either OPS or XBH- I think maybe XBH is better)- but then to somewhat mitigate the advantage gained by HRs being double counted, we add in Ks as a negative category. I don't love negative categories, but as a 7th cat, I think it could work.

Pitching:

Wins, Ks, Saves, ERA, WHIP, + 2

it could be that holds and QS are the last two, but counting both QS and wins without adding a 7th cat overemphasizes SPs.

We might be able to find pitching stats that make more sense. I have not given that much thought yet.

 

[tlance]

Chef,

I might get the innings min, but it might not matter if I do.

 

[TKOSpikes]

we add in Ks as a negative category. I don't love negative categories, but as a 7th cat, I think it could work

I'm out on a limb alone on this one too, but I love K's as a negative cat for hitters. It's a HUGE factor in points leagues, and real life.

 

[Reverend Jim]

What about this:
Pitching:

Wins, Ks, Saves, ERA, WHIP, + 2
it could be that holds and QS are the last two, but counting both QS and wins without adding a 7th cat overemphasizes SPs.
We might be able to find pitching stats that make more sense. I have not given that much thought yet.

We added hits allowed as the 7th category and it works rather well in balancing things out.

We tried holds, but that lasted one year. People were either punting saves or punting holds, not enough room to carry both closers, middle relief pitchers and enough starting pitchers to remain relevant (unless you went with zero backup for your hitters).

 

[Philabuster5]

I'm out on a limb alone on this one too, but I love K's as a negative cat for hitters. It's a HUGE factor in points leagues, and real life.

I like it too. I'm a points league guy through and through though.
I can't stand that EY Jr, Bonifacio , Hamilton, etc are so valuable when they typically can't hit the Mendoza, strike out 20+ % of the time and have no power. Revere is another one: 1 XBH. really? in 115 PA?

But Roto is unique... to me I don't think you want to make roto like points. They're really 2 completely different games. Points more accurately portray a players true value while roto, I'm finding (after being away from it for 10-15 years) can be more strategic even. Not sure I'd ever say roto was as good or better, but it can definitely be as much fun.

 

[Chef99]

Sigh...every year I swear I will not get sucked into the closer carousel, and every year I do. My apologies to anyone who wanted to pick up Rodney for next week. I will do my best not to make such waiver claims and drops in the future.

 

[Philabuster5]

There's one in every group (besides me)

 

[Chef99]

There's one in every group (besides me)

Plus I dropped Stroman in the bargain. Bad management on my part.

 

[TKOSpikes]

If we didn't change our minds, drafts and leagues would be pretty dull.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I agree about the importance of balance, but disagree about the separation.

Pitching stats all work together, so shy do hitting stats need to be separate? A pitcher who does not allow many base-runners is more likely to post a low ERA and therefor get more wins. Are they not somewhat redundant?

Pitching stats are not dependent on eachother, it is true that we try to find the pitchers that accomplish the most statistics... But all of them stand alone..

Wins- you can get wins w/o a good ERA, or WHIP or any Ks
Ks- you can have a lot of Ks w/o good ERA or whip
WHIP- not neccessarily mean a good ERA or any Ks
ERA- you can have a good ERA with a bad WHIP and no Ks
They might play well together, but none are dependent on eachother

With offense OPS is dependent on HRs and OBP or BA so having it as a 6th category is awful...

Playing well together and being dependent is 2 different things... We try hard to draft the offensive players who are good at every category, but that doesnt mean the stats are dependent on eachother...

Maybe thats just me, but i prefer categories that stand on their own, and it is possible to do well without doing well in other stats(does not have to be likely)- RBIs seems dependent on HRs, as it is almost always that whoever is in top 5 in HRs is also top 5 in RBIs, but that is not as much to do with the category as the players who we draft...