MBBRL D1 replacement owner/draft order discussion

[TREFF]

@leftypower @Yellow Fuzzies , @obxyankeefan, @Barilko , @The Foot , @Bandit , @Chef99 , @HaroldSeattle, @Ram Tough , @MilkSpiller22 , @broncosmitty, @TKOSpikes , @Trudem, @SteelersPride

So, apparently a discussion we needed to have a month or so ago, but here we are.

In the instance of an owner being ousted due to violations of the MBBRL Constitution, most specifically in the instances of tanking, what should happen with the draft pick order?


My personal feeling is that the only fair answer is to maintain the standings, with the replacement owner receiving whatever pick was originally due the ousted owner. Any incoming owner is essentially doing us a favor by taking over what was a neglected roster, why on earth would we punish him/her for the previous owners transgressions?

 

[broncosmitty]

Why on Earth would we punish any of the existing Memebers of the league?


Which is what we're doing to one of them.

 

[TKOSpikes]

Any incoming owner is essentially doing us a favor by taking over what was a neglected roster, why on earth would we punish him/her for the previous owners transgressions?

absolutely!

 

[TREFF]

Why on Earth would we punish any of the existing Memebers of the league?


Which is what we're doing to one of them.

How is he being punished? Getting the same pick he would've regardless. We can't assume he'd have ended up the top spot even if Micro hadn't tanked. There's no reasonable, logical way to assume otherwise. If Micro had played optimal lineups, he would've still lost those games...and even if he wouldn't have lost, we can't be revisionist historians..if so and so played player x, I would've won, or I would've this or that, so therefore I should get this or that..we just can't get into crap like that

 

[broncosmitty]

How is he being punished?

He's picking second because a guy intentionally lost in a head to head matchup with just a week or two left in the regular season. No assuming is needed, tanking is the reason.

 

[TREFF]

He's picking second because a guy intentionally lost in a head to head matchup with just a week or two left in the regular season. No assuming is needed, tanking is the reason.

Ok, let's do the math...had Micro not tanked and played an optimal lineup..week 13, still a loss, 12 vs Steelers, still a loss, week 11, still a loss, week 10, still a loss.

His tanking was primarily not filling out an active roster due to injuries/byes, whatever...how can we possibly assume his moves would've added an additional 20-30 points a week that he would've needed to garner a win in any of those. Had he not tanked, he still most likely would've ended up with the same record, but we can't assume either way, we can only go by how it actually played out.


And ontop of what should or shouldn't happen with the #1 pick itself...what's fair to the incoming owner? Still waiting to hear any argument justifying anything happening to him/her

 

[SteelersPride]

so we kicked micro for tanking? i was active n have a shit team..... but i get the #2 bc we asked some to join? i don't get it but whatever...

 

[SteelersPride]

the decision has been made, bandit keeps #1, now i decide if i revert back to wanting to dynasty anymore like said a month ago

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Looking at Micro roster, no way he wins regardless of who he started. Micro sand bagging goes so far back that it's not really possible to project where in the draft he actually deserves to be. If he wasn't kicked out, I'd give him the last pick every round.
However we kicked him to the curb for tanking, and what a mess he left us with.

 

[TKOSpikes]

I mean, if Bandit and SP are fine with a coin flip, I'd second Barilko's idea...

Both sides have a solid argument. I just defaulted to the "expansion" scenario, although not technically an expansion, it seems to be the closest analogy.

If the 11th and 12th placed teams were more than one game ahead, dropping Bandit could be reasonably discussed... that is not the case, as only one game separates four teams.

 

[SteelersPride]

the decision has been made, bandit keeps #1, now i decide if i revert back to wanting to dynasty anymore like said a month ago

this

 

[TREFF]

Yes this decision had been made, however, this discussion is not to address this situation..it's too address any future situations, so whether SP and Bandit, or anyone else, are happy or unhappy with this particular situation, sadly, is irrelevant to the conversation.

What do we set in stone going forward to avoid this being an issue?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

@leftypower @Yellow Fuzzies , @obxyankeefan, @Barilko , @The Foot , @Bandit , @Chef99 , @HaroldSeattle, @Ram Tough , @MilkSpiller22 , @broncosmitty, @TKOSpikes , @Trudem, @SteelersPride

So, apparently a discussion we needed to have a month or so ago, but here we are.

In the instance of an owner being ousted due to violations of the MBBRL Constitution, most specifically in the instances of tanking, what should happen with the draft pick order?


My personal feeling is that the only fair answer is to maintain the standings, with the replacement owner receiving whatever pick was originally due the ousted owner. Any incoming owner is essentially doing us a favor by taking over what was a neglected roster, why on earth would we punish him/her for the previous owners transgressions?

This is a tough subject to make a fair opinion... there should be no assumptions made, the team was bad no matter what... BUT tanking is against the rules, the TEAM and the owner should be penalized... We only punished the owner by kicking him out... but in no way should the team get rewarded for tanking...

Then the next question is where to put it... and i honestly don't have a fair answer to that...

Bandit, the new owner, knew that he was taking over a bad team, we don't have to help him out... he needs to earn(which of course he will) everything he will get...

this is a 14 team league, with 4 teams making the playoffs.... i think the most fair punishment would be to give him the HALF way vote of the NONE playoff teams... and that would be the 5th hole...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

If the 11th and 12th placed teams were more than one game ahead, dropping Bandit could be reasonably discussed... that is not the case, as only one game separates four teams.

Exactly, if SP gets moved up then the next in line has a reasonable argument to get moved up and then the next team also and the team after that....
Try to understand SP how hard it would be to be fair not just to you, but several teams after you.

 

[SteelersPride]

it's good. i don't care. maybe dynasty isn't for me. i said that a month ago.

 

[Barilko]

my coin flip idea is only if we got to that
im standing with all of Treff's sentiments

 

[TREFF]

This is a tough subject to make a fair opinion... there should be no assumptions made, the team was bad no matter what... BUT tanking is against the rules, the TEAM and the owner should be penalized... We only punished the owner by kicking him out... but in no way should the team get rewarded for tanking...

Then the next question is where to put it... and i honestly don't have a fair answer to that...

Bandit, the new owner, knew that he was taking over a bad team, we don't have to help him out... he needs to earn(which of course he will) everything he will get...

this is a 14 team league, with 4 teams making the playoffs.... i think the most fair punishment would be to give him the HALF way vote of the NONE playoff teams... and that would be the 5th hole...

Not attacking the merits of the suggestion, just playing devil's advocate.

I currently have that #5 spot, do I move up to 4? Why do I get rewarded? Why doesn't OBX at 6? Why do Ram and Foot get a bump?

Anything thing other than punishing the owner by kicking him out, and sticking with the only concrete thing we have, the standings, opens up ridiculously dumb questions

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Not attacking the merits of the suggestion, just playing devil's advocate.

I currently have that #5 spot, do I move up to 4? Why do I get rewarded? Why doesn't OBX at 6? Why do Ram and Foot get a bump?

Anything thing other than punishing the owner by kicking him out, and sticking with the only concrete thing we have, the standings, opens up ridiculously dumb questions

Like i said, this is a tough subject to find a fair solution... not sure if anything is fair... But don't you think we HAVE to penalize the team as well as the owner??

What sucks is that some of us tried to talk about this when the league was founded, but we just assumed we would never have this problem... SHAME ON US!!!

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Like i said, this is a tough subject to find a fair solution... not sure if anything is fair... But don't you think we HAVE to penalize the team as well as the owner??

What sucks is that some of us tried to talk about this when the league was founded, but we just assumed we would never have this problem... SHAME ON US!!!

The team is already pentalized by Micro incompetent management.

 

[TREFF]

Like i said, this is a tough subject to find a fair solution... not sure if anything is fair... But don't you think we HAVE to penalize the team as well as the owner??

What sucks is that some of us tried to talk about this when the league was founded, but we just assumed we would never have this problem... SHAME ON US!!!

Agreed wholeheartedly there, shame on us. One thing we've learned the past 4-5 months is that we've been far too presumptive on the "honor code" aspect of MBBRL.

but punishing the team? Naw, I don't see the reasoning behind that. It's fantasy football,the team and the owner are the same thing. We can't punish the "team" without also punishing the incoming owner, who's done nothing wrong and is in a way, doing us a favor by taking the neglected team and filling the spot. I think the only fair option is allowing the standings to stand and giving that incoming owner whatever that may end up being.