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Maybe someone can finally solve attendance once and for all
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irishwhip03
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I understand why teams near big market want to go the cooperate way in terms of filling their building. But it sure doesnt help the middle class diehards who fill the upper decks every game. What good is a filled seat if its being taken by a guy who doesnt understand the game and is only there because they got the seats from their company?
Plus no one who makes around 40K a year wants to pay 80 bucks a ticket to go see a Devils/Leafs game on a Tuesday night.
If the team would lower ticket prices in the lower level for those type of games more of the seats would be filled by people who would actually enjoy being there.
Obviously dont do this for every game or every opponent , but its a much easier way to fill a building with fans.
Who cares if your screwing your season ticket holders? A large group of those people put their tix on Stubhub as soon as they get em. Better to sell off a seat for less and have the person in the building buying stuff then having them at home.
Plus no one who makes around 40K a year wants to pay 80 bucks a ticket to go see a Devils/Leafs game on a Tuesday night.
If the team would lower ticket prices in the lower level for those type of games more of the seats would be filled by people who would actually enjoy being there.
Obviously dont do this for every game or every opponent , but its a much easier way to fill a building with fans.
Who cares if your screwing your season ticket holders? A large group of those people put their tix on Stubhub as soon as they get em. Better to sell off a seat for less and have the person in the building buying stuff then having them at home.
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nj_cup
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love a post like this good find dabs
want to see #1 issue with devils ticket sales?
2013-14 Single Game Tickets - New Jersey Devils - Tickets
21 different price points THEN they add on 5 different game price points! yeah i would love to see a sales pitch to someone about that!
they say they have 10,000 give or take season ticket holders which is great. yet only 14,000 show up for games? where do you think the problem is? its in the individual game sales. cheapest ticket on that list is $49 to sit in a crappy insanely small seat. that $49 is for season ticket holder i dont know what a walk up will pay but it is WAAAAAAAAAY to much for sure.
ahhhhhhhhhhhh but corporate sales is the way to go? i don't need an MBA to tell you thats a fail waiting to happen. corporations didn't realize the devils were here for 30+ years? :sales pitch: wait a min so i can buy a luxury box and have the nj devil come and greet my workers? sold! meet and greet with grant marshall? sold!
face it the devils aren't as "sexy or cool" as the rangers and msg. your comparing new york city the biggest city in the world to freaking NEWARK! who's going to win that sales pitch? grant marshall or brian leetch who has more pull?
even if they do get corporate to buy these seats there's no gurantee that they will show up and be used. i'm not great in math but i would believe that a discounted seat being used is worth more then a full price ticket sold that goes unused no?
why not cater to what this state has plenty of FAMILIES! my brother in law and nephew are a prime example. my brother in law is a ranger fan he can't make it to nyc to a ranger game takes his son to his first hockey game devils vs kings 4 years back. kid is hooked on the devils everything in his room is devils. the kid should be a ranger fan but because of convience and cheaper ticket they now have a devil fan for life!
they want some good pr and some headlines? slash prices and no i'm not talking about 10% crap. i'm talking slash them 40-50% get people in the seat. the money you lose on the sale will made up either by
1. return customer 2. parking 3. concession 4. merchandise once the people are "hooked" and there is a demand for tickets then raise the prices....no don't raise them 25% the year after you drop them 40% raise them 5% each year.
i know no one is thinking it but we really should be worried about the true intentions of the new owners. i do worry when a guy is willing to just overpay for a team and buyout their 100 million dollar debt so they can get their hands on the arena. the guy even said it himself he was more interested in the building then he was the team. if the devils were still at continental do you think he would've spent what was it $350 million to buy them? i dont
seattle isn't an option now for a hockey team but if they built an arena in 5 years time they are going to def get an nhl team. 5 years of lackluster sales and taking a loss of $25-30 million will take its toll on anyone. they have a lease? i'm sure there are out clauses and penalties but the guy is a billionaire he can afford them. besides he got what he said he wanted the arena
want to see #1 issue with devils ticket sales?
2013-14 Single Game Tickets - New Jersey Devils - Tickets
21 different price points THEN they add on 5 different game price points! yeah i would love to see a sales pitch to someone about that!
they say they have 10,000 give or take season ticket holders which is great. yet only 14,000 show up for games? where do you think the problem is? its in the individual game sales. cheapest ticket on that list is $49 to sit in a crappy insanely small seat. that $49 is for season ticket holder i dont know what a walk up will pay but it is WAAAAAAAAAY to much for sure.
ahhhhhhhhhhhh but corporate sales is the way to go? i don't need an MBA to tell you thats a fail waiting to happen. corporations didn't realize the devils were here for 30+ years? :sales pitch: wait a min so i can buy a luxury box and have the nj devil come and greet my workers? sold! meet and greet with grant marshall? sold!
face it the devils aren't as "sexy or cool" as the rangers and msg. your comparing new york city the biggest city in the world to freaking NEWARK! who's going to win that sales pitch? grant marshall or brian leetch who has more pull?
even if they do get corporate to buy these seats there's no gurantee that they will show up and be used. i'm not great in math but i would believe that a discounted seat being used is worth more then a full price ticket sold that goes unused no?
why not cater to what this state has plenty of FAMILIES! my brother in law and nephew are a prime example. my brother in law is a ranger fan he can't make it to nyc to a ranger game takes his son to his first hockey game devils vs kings 4 years back. kid is hooked on the devils everything in his room is devils. the kid should be a ranger fan but because of convience and cheaper ticket they now have a devil fan for life!
they want some good pr and some headlines? slash prices and no i'm not talking about 10% crap. i'm talking slash them 40-50% get people in the seat. the money you lose on the sale will made up either by
1. return customer 2. parking 3. concession 4. merchandise once the people are "hooked" and there is a demand for tickets then raise the prices....no don't raise them 25% the year after you drop them 40% raise them 5% each year.
i know no one is thinking it but we really should be worried about the true intentions of the new owners. i do worry when a guy is willing to just overpay for a team and buyout their 100 million dollar debt so they can get their hands on the arena. the guy even said it himself he was more interested in the building then he was the team. if the devils were still at continental do you think he would've spent what was it $350 million to buy them? i dont
seattle isn't an option now for a hockey team but if they built an arena in 5 years time they are going to def get an nhl team. 5 years of lackluster sales and taking a loss of $25-30 million will take its toll on anyone. they have a lease? i'm sure there are out clauses and penalties but the guy is a billionaire he can afford them. besides he got what he said he wanted the arena
nj_cup
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how lame are devils promo's?
get an email about a black friday special. thinking great its a 2 for 1 game? or tickets?
nope just that all fees were wavied if you bought tickets online. lol fail
get an email about a black friday special. thinking great its a 2 for 1 game? or tickets?
nope just that all fees were wavied if you bought tickets online. lol fail
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TheSgtDabbs
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There are many ways to look at this problem. And yes, there is a problem.
1. They could lower ticket prices: Generally this is where everyone looks to in attempts to solve the problem. While I agree with the idea, I don't think it's that simple. One could say, if they just lowered the price of gas then families could afford to do more, and spend more money in the economy. Sounds wonderful, but we all know that isn't how the world works. They would have to lower the prices in lower bowl substantially to create a demand that would lead to consistent sellouts. With sellouts consistently, but a reduced revenue by virtue of lower tickets, would the Devils really stand to profit marginally more than the current situation? Difficult to say. It would take a lot of number crunching. Plus, you can't accurately factor in the money they would gain by more food sales, merchandise, etc., as this would vary from person to person, and game by game. However, a little reduction in prices would be a great start.
2. They could have better promotions: Always a great idea if done correctly. The idea is to create a sense of saving money, even if that savings is minimal at best. Take black friday for instance: Stores slash prices on items such as televisions and computers, which draws people in. While the stores lose money on those purchases, the goal of the store is to make up the losses in other areas such as accessories or services. (Can you tell I used to sell electronics?) People think they have robbed a store blind, but in reality they have bought additional items marked up in some cases 20x their store cost. Customer leaves store with the illusion of saving, the store profits. Everyone wins. Similarly, why are food and beer prices absurd at sporting events?
3. Bring in corporate spending: This is something everyone seems to fear. The assumption is that these people won't create the atmosphere we love when we go to games. That's an argument that I don't buy. It's hard for anyone to go to a hockey game and not enjoy it. Why do people assume that a businessman there primarily for business reasons won't also take an interest in the event that is happening in front of them? And who knows, these people who come to games that otherwise wouldn't have may become hooked themselves and start coming to games on their own dime. Isn't that how many hockey fans today became hooked on the game? I know it surely helped solidify my love for it.
All things told, these items could improve the attendance figures. However, there are two other items that can take precedence over all: Winning and star players. The first is obvious. People would much rather pay to see a winning team than a loser. But we've seen throughout the Devils history that this alone isn't the catch all. A team like the Devils need a legitimate star. Someone that creates a buzz and people will come to see. Brodeur is great and die-hard hockey fans love to see him play. Casual fans will not come to see goaltender. Kovalchuk was going to be the guy, and we saw both him and Parise create a good buzz. Right now, though, the Devils don't have a star player. Getting one is easier said than done, so for now the other items will have to help.
I always look at the Pens. Currently on a streak of 300 sellouts, the team was once literally a decision or two away from moving. What helped them stay? Sidney Crosby. Plain and simple. Everyone is the City of Pittsburgh knew what he would do for not only the team, but the city itself, and they would have been crazy to let that opportunity pass. Not many teams will be that lucky again. But it goes to show that there are many different factors that play into a successful team and attendance alike.
1. They could lower ticket prices: Generally this is where everyone looks to in attempts to solve the problem. While I agree with the idea, I don't think it's that simple. One could say, if they just lowered the price of gas then families could afford to do more, and spend more money in the economy. Sounds wonderful, but we all know that isn't how the world works. They would have to lower the prices in lower bowl substantially to create a demand that would lead to consistent sellouts. With sellouts consistently, but a reduced revenue by virtue of lower tickets, would the Devils really stand to profit marginally more than the current situation? Difficult to say. It would take a lot of number crunching. Plus, you can't accurately factor in the money they would gain by more food sales, merchandise, etc., as this would vary from person to person, and game by game. However, a little reduction in prices would be a great start.
2. They could have better promotions: Always a great idea if done correctly. The idea is to create a sense of saving money, even if that savings is minimal at best. Take black friday for instance: Stores slash prices on items such as televisions and computers, which draws people in. While the stores lose money on those purchases, the goal of the store is to make up the losses in other areas such as accessories or services. (Can you tell I used to sell electronics?) People think they have robbed a store blind, but in reality they have bought additional items marked up in some cases 20x their store cost. Customer leaves store with the illusion of saving, the store profits. Everyone wins. Similarly, why are food and beer prices absurd at sporting events?
3. Bring in corporate spending: This is something everyone seems to fear. The assumption is that these people won't create the atmosphere we love when we go to games. That's an argument that I don't buy. It's hard for anyone to go to a hockey game and not enjoy it. Why do people assume that a businessman there primarily for business reasons won't also take an interest in the event that is happening in front of them? And who knows, these people who come to games that otherwise wouldn't have may become hooked themselves and start coming to games on their own dime. Isn't that how many hockey fans today became hooked on the game? I know it surely helped solidify my love for it.
All things told, these items could improve the attendance figures. However, there are two other items that can take precedence over all: Winning and star players. The first is obvious. People would much rather pay to see a winning team than a loser. But we've seen throughout the Devils history that this alone isn't the catch all. A team like the Devils need a legitimate star. Someone that creates a buzz and people will come to see. Brodeur is great and die-hard hockey fans love to see him play. Casual fans will not come to see goaltender. Kovalchuk was going to be the guy, and we saw both him and Parise create a good buzz. Right now, though, the Devils don't have a star player. Getting one is easier said than done, so for now the other items will have to help.
I always look at the Pens. Currently on a streak of 300 sellouts, the team was once literally a decision or two away from moving. What helped them stay? Sidney Crosby. Plain and simple. Everyone is the City of Pittsburgh knew what he would do for not only the team, but the city itself, and they would have been crazy to let that opportunity pass. Not many teams will be that lucky again. But it goes to show that there are many different factors that play into a successful team and attendance alike.
irishwhip03
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I dont believe that stars equal an automatic attendance increase..were a perfect example of that because even when Kovy and Parise were here they werent marketed right by the team/ownership and we still had attendance problems anyways.
I also dont believe that you can put anyone in a seat at a hockey game and they can have a good time. Example , I went to a Brooklyn Nets game this season because one of my buddies got a free suite from his company. It was great because it was free food and free booze but I am not an NBA fan. The game was downright boring after the first couple minutes. I can rate my expierence that night as a solid 8 out of 10. And that was in a freakin suite! Imagine if it was just a regular seat in the upper deck where I would have to shell out $12 a beer.
But there are def solutions out there for increased attendance so hopefully the guys in charge have some good ideas for it. The games are always better when the seats are full and the crowd is loud.
I also dont believe that you can put anyone in a seat at a hockey game and they can have a good time. Example , I went to a Brooklyn Nets game this season because one of my buddies got a free suite from his company. It was great because it was free food and free booze but I am not an NBA fan. The game was downright boring after the first couple minutes. I can rate my expierence that night as a solid 8 out of 10. And that was in a freakin suite! Imagine if it was just a regular seat in the upper deck where I would have to shell out $12 a beer.
But there are def solutions out there for increased attendance so hopefully the guys in charge have some good ideas for it. The games are always better when the seats are full and the crowd is loud.
I think Dabbs is 100 percent right in his assessment.
But I also see what Irish is saying as well.
The reason I agree with Dabbs is I have experience dealing with people who want to see the Kovys and Parise's in the league. These same fans have now lost interest.
That and the fact that the team is not winning conistently.
Dabbs makes great points about casual fans. They don't care about the goalies. Yea they know Marty, but casual fans go to see goals scored. This will hurt the hardcore Devils fans. Honestly, I am one too. I love the whole organization with the defense first attitude...but I also loved when they brought in guys like Kovy. Casual fans want to go to a game and see a star....a star on offense.
Dabbs, good posts!
But I also see what Irish is saying as well.
The reason I agree with Dabbs is I have experience dealing with people who want to see the Kovys and Parise's in the league. These same fans have now lost interest.
That and the fact that the team is not winning conistently.
Dabbs makes great points about casual fans. They don't care about the goalies. Yea they know Marty, but casual fans go to see goals scored. This will hurt the hardcore Devils fans. Honestly, I am one too. I love the whole organization with the defense first attitude...but I also loved when they brought in guys like Kovy. Casual fans want to go to a game and see a star....a star on offense.
Dabbs, good posts!
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TheSgtDabbs
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Thanks rp!
Irish, I totally agree with you that not everyone will go to a game and enjoy it. I would be write there with you at an NBA game, in fact I'd rather watch just about anything other than NBA basketball. I guess I shouldn't have phrased it to include "anyone", because as you pointed out that would never be the case.
But in any case, it's a win-win for the Devils if they bring in more corporate clients/businessmen/etc, they sell seats, and may gain new fans.
As for star power, yes it is true that star power alone isn't the answer. In reality, who in the sport of hockey besides Crosby is really marketed to people outside the sport? He was literally like striking gold to the Pens. Living in the region of Pittsburgh sports, I have seen a substantial increase in Pens fans since he came along. A player like him is once in a lifetime. The Devils can't count on that ever happening, but even having bigger names in the sport will help. You can't tell me there wasn't a huge buzz when Kovy came along, and while it didn't equal sellouts, it did help. Last year the team averaged something like 17,000 a game I think (without taking time to look it up, so if I'm wrong, my bad) and the team missed the playoffs. SCF run the year prior probably inflated the number, but it was increasing anyway. Now this year, I've seen 13k on what should be a good night. Team is treading water, and no star power. Bad combo.
Regardless, those were just my thoughts on it. I'm a 911 dispatcher, not a marketing expect. Lol
Irish, I totally agree with you that not everyone will go to a game and enjoy it. I would be write there with you at an NBA game, in fact I'd rather watch just about anything other than NBA basketball. I guess I shouldn't have phrased it to include "anyone", because as you pointed out that would never be the case.
But in any case, it's a win-win for the Devils if they bring in more corporate clients/businessmen/etc, they sell seats, and may gain new fans.
As for star power, yes it is true that star power alone isn't the answer. In reality, who in the sport of hockey besides Crosby is really marketed to people outside the sport? He was literally like striking gold to the Pens. Living in the region of Pittsburgh sports, I have seen a substantial increase in Pens fans since he came along. A player like him is once in a lifetime. The Devils can't count on that ever happening, but even having bigger names in the sport will help. You can't tell me there wasn't a huge buzz when Kovy came along, and while it didn't equal sellouts, it did help. Last year the team averaged something like 17,000 a game I think (without taking time to look it up, so if I'm wrong, my bad) and the team missed the playoffs. SCF run the year prior probably inflated the number, but it was increasing anyway. Now this year, I've seen 13k on what should be a good night. Team is treading water, and no star power. Bad combo.
Regardless, those were just my thoughts on it. I'm a 911 dispatcher, not a marketing expect. Lol
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We sold out a huge percentage of games last year, prices didn't go up this year if I remember correctly, in fact a lot went down, and now attendance is down. It's because the team isn't doing very well.
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They should continue to win games
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I went last night game was a sellout a legit one? No probably 15,500.
Throughout the game it just felt dead inside the building. Hell 0-0 in the 3rd it was still a morgue. Stars might mot equal sellouts but they do make it a better game to attend buzz wise. I dunno maybe it was just a crap team early in the season but I did go two weeks ago to the pens game and felt the same.
Throughout the game it just felt dead inside the building. Hell 0-0 in the 3rd it was still a morgue. Stars might mot equal sellouts but they do make it a better game to attend buzz wise. I dunno maybe it was just a crap team early in the season but I did go two weeks ago to the pens game and felt the same.
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Last not was not a sellout. 15,226 (86.4% full) (Official)
I was at the Pens game and I thought that despite that being a lite crowd it was still a good atmosphere.
I was at the Pens game and I thought that despite that being a lite crowd it was still a good atmosphere.
nj_cup
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better promo's a start for sure.
their black friday deal was stupid
their cyber monday deal was even more stupid. get 20% off at the team store? and a $10 food credit? yippie! what a deal!
also what gives with the holiday package? what the hell am i going to do with a ski lift ticket? talk about catering to a small % of fans. i can't really see that many people having the time or money or interest to go skiing maybe thats me.
as for the game on sat. told ya 15,500! i did read that the devils sellout now is not 17+ ? i read they are counting a sell out now somewhere in the 16,500 range. either way though it was a nice crowd but kinda dead imo
their black friday deal was stupid
their cyber monday deal was even more stupid. get 20% off at the team store? and a $10 food credit? yippie! what a deal!
also what gives with the holiday package? what the hell am i going to do with a ski lift ticket? talk about catering to a small % of fans. i can't really see that many people having the time or money or interest to go skiing maybe thats me.
as for the game on sat. told ya 15,500! i did read that the devils sellout now is not 17+ ? i read they are counting a sell out now somewhere in the 16,500 range. either way though it was a nice crowd but kinda dead imo
nj_cup
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rp and dabs i agree too no one is really going to come out and watch a goalie play hell the whole goal of hockey (pun intended) is to keep your goalie OUT of the game!
one thing the devils are missing the boat on is social media. get the players twitter accounts i dont like that crap but still its big with the youth of this country and thats who we are targeting no?
how bout putting a devils den in a mall? how many malls does this state have? put one in every mall. seems that the devils influence stops once you step outside the rock. thats way too small of a footprint if your going to compete for peoples money.
one thing the devils are missing the boat on is social media. get the players twitter accounts i dont like that crap but still its big with the youth of this country and thats who we are targeting no?
how bout putting a devils den in a mall? how many malls does this state have? put one in every mall. seems that the devils influence stops once you step outside the rock. thats way too small of a footprint if your going to compete for peoples money.
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