Max Scherzer and the Hall of Fame

[Rock Strongo]

CC?

He won a cy. Yes. His run from cleveland to Milwaukee to ny was impressive. Best lefty in his time probably as far as the al goes.

 

[Calm]

He won a cy. Yes. His run from cleveland to Milwaukee was impressive. Best lefty in his time probably as far as the al goes.

Your definition of "dominated" and "long stretch" must be quite a bit different than mine then.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Your definition of "dominated" and "long stretch" must be quite a bit different than mine then.

122-57
3.14 ERA
1.162 WHIP
29 CG
10 SHO

Is that good?

 

[broncosmitty]

After CC's next start, the only two pitchers with more Ks who aren't in the HOF will be Rocket and Schilling.

Bob Gibson is the only AA pitcher with more.

He's an absolute lock at this point.

 

[navamind]

Howzbout CC?

I'd still probably put him in, but he's not as much of a "lock" as he was 5 years ago. He was pretty godawful in 2013-15, though he's been an above average starter the last two years. He's been an absolute workhorse (13 seasons with 180+ innings and he has 3299.1 innings, which is remarkable for a modern day pitcher) and I think he had a good enough peak (8 seasons in the top 10 in ERA+ and 6 in WAR).

scherzer has 2.

he hasnt won 3.

like i said, do it another few years. i can see kershaw winning it this year too. 16-3. higher ERA+. similar IP. first place team (still). robbie ray in AZ. quite a few deserving guys. grienke. martinez in st louis (on the cusp).

27 innings is pretty significant nowadays. And besides, Kershaw's ERA+ is only 4 points higher.

 

[jon2tanman]

Felix will not make the HOF. CC needs to pad his numbers or he won't make it either.

 

[Calm]

122-57
3.14 ERA
1.162 WHIP
29 CG
10 SHO

Is that good?

Good? Yeah. Dominant? Meh.

Four of the eight seasons you picked he didn't rank in the Top 10 in MLB in ERA, ERA+, WHIP, FIP or WAR. He never led MLB in any of those categories and rarely led in any category.

 

[navamind]

Good? Yeah. Dominant? Meh.

Four of the eight seasons you picked he didn't rank in the Top 10 in MLB in ERA, ERA+, WHIP, FIP or WAR. He never led MLB in any of those categories and rarely led in any category.

Good point, his stats don't look quite as dominant as I thought they were.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Good? Yeah. Dominant? Meh.

Four of the eight seasons you picked he didn't rank in the Top 10 in MLB in ERA, ERA+, WHIP, FIP or WAR. He never led MLB in any of those categories and rarely led in any category.

his ERA over that span is well below the league average. he won a cy and finished in the top 5 , 4 times. he has 234 wins and 2,831 k's. his WAR for his career is 60.2

from ages 23-32 (scherzers career to date) CC's WAR was 44.6
scherzer as he stands today is 44.2

again, same time frame. ages 23-32.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Howzbout CC?

If he retired after this year, I wouldn't vote for him, but it would be really close. One more season similar to his 2016/2017 numbers, and I'd probably vote for him. Two more seasons like that and I would advocate for his induction.

 

[Rock Strongo]

If he retired after this year, I wouldn't vote for him, but it would be really close. One more season similar to his 2016/2017 numbers, and I'd probably vote for him. Two more seasons like that and I would advocate for his induction.

i say if he gets 250 wins, and doesnt fall apart to a 5.00 ERA again, hes in.

 

[soxfan1468927]

i say if he gets 250 wins, and doesnt fall apart to a 5.00 ERA again, hes in.

Well the question of whether or not I think he'll get in, as opposed to whether or not he should, are different. I'm talking strictly about whether or not I would vote for him. You might be right in figuring out how the voters are going to land on this.

 

[StanMarsh51]

his ERA over that span is well below the league average. he won a cy and finished in the top 5 , 4 times. he has 234 wins and 2,831 k's. his WAR for his career is 60.2

from ages 23-32 (scherzers career to date) CC's WAR was 44.6
scherzer as he stands today is 44.2

again, same time frame. ages 23-32.

CC's got 5 seasons where he finished in the top 5, but other than those 5 seasons, he hasn't received a single Cy vote in any other season (so one can argue that outside of his peak/prime, he wasn't very good - he was maybe slightly above average in his first 5 seasons, and average at best in the past 5 seasons, meaing that for the majority of his career he arguably wasn't a 'good' pitcher.

You look at a lot of HOFers, and outside of their prime/peaks, many were still good overall/well above average. CC doesn't really have that.

 

[Rock Strongo]

CC's got 5 seasons where he finished in the top 5, but other than those 5 seasons, he hasn't received a single Cy vote in any other season (so one can argue that outside of his peak/prime, he wasn't very good - he was maybe slightly above average in his first 5 seasons, and average at best in the past 5 seasons, meaing that for the majority of his career he arguably wasn't a 'good' pitcher.

you should vote in my poll

 

[soxfan1468927]

CC's got 5 seasons where he finished in the top 5, but other than those 5 seasons, he hasn't received a single Cy vote in any other season (so one can argue that outside of his peak/prime, he wasn't very good - he was maybe slightly above average in his first 5 seasons, and average at best in the past 5 seasons, meaing that for the majority of his career he arguably wasn't a 'good' pitcher.

You look at a lot of HOFers, and outside of their prime/peaks, many were still good overall/well above average. CC doesn't really have that.

I disagree here. Outside of Sabathia's 5 seasons where he finished in the top 5 in Cy Young votes, he has 3 seasons where he was good to great (2003, 2006, 2012), and 2 seasons where he was good/above average (2016/2017). Then he has 4 average years and 3 shitty ones.

Let's say his 17 years were like this:

2001: 180.1 IP, 102 ERA+
2002: 210.0 IP, 100 ERA+
2003: 188.0 IP, 106 ERA+
2004: 196.2 IP, 104 ERA+
2005: 197.2 IP, 122 ERA+
2006: 192.2 IP, 126 ERA+
2007: 241.0 IP, 141 ERA+
2008: 253.0 IP, 156 ERA+
2009: 230.0 IP, 137 ERA+
2010: 237.2 IP, 136 ERA+
2011: 237.1 IP, 133 ERA+
2012: 200.0 IP, 125 ERA+
2013: 179.2 IP, 110 ERA+
2014: 131.0 IP, 118 ERA+
2015: 211.0 IP, 84 ERA+
2016: 167.1 IP, 86 ERA+
2017: 46.0 IP, 73 ERA+

I think we would look at him a little differently as we could clearly see a defined 8-year prime and an additional 6 seasons of value.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I disagree here. Outside of Sabathia's 5 seasons where he finished in the top 5 in Cy Young votes, he has 3 seasons where he was good to great (2003, 2006, 2012), and 2 seasons where he was good/above average (2016/2017). Then he has 4 average years and 3 shitty ones.

Let's say his 17 years were like this:

2001: 180.1 IP, 102 ERA+
2002: 210.0 IP, 100 ERA+
2003: 188.0 IP, 106 ERA+
2004: 196.2 IP, 104 ERA+
2005: 197.2 IP, 122 ERA+
2006: 192.2 IP, 126 ERA+
2007: 241.0 IP, 141 ERA+
2008: 253.0 IP, 156 ERA+
2009: 230.0 IP, 137 ERA+
2010: 237.2 IP, 136 ERA+
2011: 237.1 IP, 133 ERA+
2012: 200.0 IP, 125 ERA+
2013: 179.2 IP, 110 ERA+
2014: 131.0 IP, 118 ERA+
2015: 211.0 IP, 84 ERA+
2016: 167.1 IP, 86 ERA+
2017: 46.0 IP, 73 ERA+

I think we would look at him a little differently as we could clearly see a defined 8-year prime and an additional 6 seasons of value.

Wow, Good Stuff
DID read

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Scherzer is the frontrunner right now.

Debatable.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Debatable.

I think the Cy Predictor gets it wrong in the NL this year.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I think the Cy Predictor gets it wrong in the NL this year.

Certainly possible. It's not infallible. Still, it's a debate and I don't think there's a clear front runner at this point.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Certainly possible. It's not infallible. Still, it's a debate and I don't think there's a clear front runner at this point.

I think it's pretty clearly Scherzer, at least on who SHOULD win it.