Magic, Wilt, Timmy

[BOTSLAYER]

Agree with HOF point.

Games evolve constantly. People and science evolves at a very similar pace, often one causing the other to evolve. People get bigger and stronger. Just look at the average muscle definition over the league and how that has changed over the years.

To say he would not start on the showtime lakers is either a ridiculously unfair statement or ridiculously incomplete. Are you saying that there is nobody on that starting line up he could replace? Does it have to be in the front court? Or are you just saying that Kareem is a better center?

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

You broke the Cardinal Rule Starbig.

Under no circumstances are you allowed to suggest anything remotely bad about Bill Russell. Boston fans will hunt you down.

They want you to believe that Russell elevated a team of D-leaguers to titles.

Even though he played with more HOFers than were on the 200 & 2004 USA Olympic teams combined, Russell fans get to smugly look down on anyone without 11 rings.

And the notion that he made all those guys all-stars is silly, Cousy was a league MVP and first team all NBA player for 6 years prior to Russell.
Bill SHarman was a multiple all-star and MVP runner up for several years.

Imagine if Lebron James were to play with Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, and Kobe Bryant with Gregg Popovich as their coach with more money than anyone else to spend on FAs.

Yes, Russell earned his titles.
Yes, Russell was a great player and one of the top 10-15 who ever played.

But, the deck was so stacked that he could have played mediocre basketball and won at least 6 titles.

 

[Sman2011]

Bill Russell was often the 5th or 4th leading scorer on those championship teams.

Enough said.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

But the best defender

 

[BOTSLAYER]

ok back to on topic, anybody have a resource to find the list of career double double leaders in the playoffs?

 

[rmilia1]

Huh, where's MJ? Magic = GOAT

The PRIMARY reason that MJ is considered the greatest ever is because he had the unique advantage of being the first true NBA superstar to start and end his career during the height of NBA popularity. He played in an era where all the big games were spotlighted, where his accomplishments made headlines every night. Of course the REASON this happened for him was Magic and Larry. Before those 2 came alon the NBA Finals were played on motherfucking tape delay. Tape delay!!! LOL. Can you imagine that shit??? MJ owes a HUGE part of his success and popularity to those 2 guys. Without them paving the way and making the NBA what it is today MJ would just be another guy that your Dad tells you was the greatest but you dont believe him because you never got to see him. He'd be Oscar Robertson minus the rebounding and assists.

 

[starbigd]

Agree with HOF point.

Games evolve constantly. People and science evolves at a very similar pace, often one causing the other to evolve. People get bigger and stronger. Just look at the average muscle definition over the league and how that has changed over the years.

To say he would not start on the showtime lakers is either a ridiculously unfair statement or ridiculously incomplete. Are you saying that there is nobody on that starting line up he could replace? Does it have to be in the front court? Or are you just saying that Kareem is a better center?

I'm saying Kareem would INDEED start over him. I'll ask again......what position is he going to play, and WHO sits the bench in his place?

You aren't sitting the leagues greatest scorer. He can't play PG, or SG. That leaves SF and PF.

Russell was a great player.....IN HIS DAY. But there's no way he would have been great in the 80s.

 

[piss-tons]

First to talk about the athleticism, Bill Russell was an all-world athlete. He could have competed in the olympics and would be one of the best athletes in the NBA today, rivalring Kobe.
Second, there were less teams in the 60s, so teams had more talent in them. This is the primary reason why 60s teams would beat 80s teams, and 80s teams would beat 90s team etc. The league had around 20 teams in the 80s, so thats why teams like the 86 Celtics and 87 Lakers seem so stacked compared to the ones now. Likewise there were only 8 teams in the 60s, so the teams were more stacked.
Third, the ONLY reason a lot of those guys made the hall is because of the titles they won, and it is no doubt Bill Russell lead his teams to those titles. I know some of you think the only stat that matters is ppg which is why you worship players like Jordan and Kobe but Russell initiated that 60s fast break by being able to locate the pg and throw the outlet pass after rebound in one motion, and by blocking shots towards his guards, instead of doing what NBA players do today, slapping the ball out of bounds as hard as possible. Whether it was Cousy, Jones, hell even Siegfried, Bill Russell won. He has hall of fame team mates because he truly made his team mates better.

 

[piss-tons]

I'm saying Kareem would INDEED start over him. I'll ask again......what position is he going to play, and WHO sits the bench in his place?

You aren't sitting the leagues greatest scorer. He can't play PG, or SG. That leaves SF and PF.

Russell was a great player.....IN HIS DAY. But there's no way he would have been great in the 80s.

Russell would probably guard the C's but play PF on offense, but with Russell rebounding and throwing the outlet pass to Magic, that fast break would be unstoppable. He isn't too small to play C either, small guys can play C and still play great defense, see Ben Wallace. Fact of the matter is Bill Russell has the highest defensive win shares BY FAR.

 

[shitsho]

Just like my uncle told me about Wilt he also told me how much of an athlete Russell was. I never really believed it because I thought he played with a lot of slow, smaller white dudes that couldn't jump. Someone on CBS posted a clip of him grabbing a rebound then sprinting down court and literally jumping over a guy to score.


Bill Russell jumps OVER a guy from near the FT Line - (realtime playback speed) - YouTube

 

[BOTSLAYER]

um yea, Russell Kareem Jordan...and 3 minutes ago I was thinking of moving Jordan to 2 over Russell

 

[piss-tons]

I don't really think comparing teams and players from other eras are fair. Russell and the Celtics is the greatest of the 60s, Kareem, but no team, of the 70s, the Lakers and Celtics and Magic/Bird of the 80s, the Pistons inte-period, then the 90s with Jordan and the Bulls, then Shaq and the Lakers and then Duncan and the Spurs. Teams like this years Miami Heat and 90s Bulls will never be as good as teams in the 80s and before because they were less teams, meaning talent was more consolidated. The other side of this is because there were less teams, and talent was consolidated, doesn't diminish the titles Magic or Russell won.

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

First to talk about the athleticism, Bill Russell was an all-world athlete. He could have competed in the olympics and would be one of the best athletes in the NBA today, rivalring Kobe.
Second, there were less teams in the 60s, so teams had more talent in them. This is the primary reason why 60s teams would beat 80s teams, and 80s teams would beat 90s team etc. The league had around 20 teams in the 80s, so thats why teams like the 86 Celtics and 87 Lakers seem so stacked compared to the ones now. Likewise there were only 8 teams in the 60s, so the teams were more stacked.
Third, the ONLY reason a lot of those guys made the hall is because of the titles they won, and it is no doubt Bill Russell lead his teams to those titles. I know some of you think the only stat that matters is ppg which is why you worship players like Jordan and Kobe but Russell initiated that 60s fast break by being able to locate the pg and throw the outlet pass after rebound in one motion, and by blocking shots towards his guards, instead of doing what NBA players do today, slapping the ball out of bounds as hard as possible. Whether it was Cousy, Jones, hell even Siegfried, Bill Russell won. He has hall of fame team mates because he truly made his team mates better.

Players in the 80s were faster, stronger, and had way more skills. Just look how the players players played in the 60s.

 

[starbigd]

Russell would probably guard the C's but play PF on offense, but with Russell rebounding and throwing the outlet pass to Magic, that fast break would be unstoppable. He isn't too small to play C either, small guys can play C and still play great defense, see Ben Wallace. Fact of the matter is Bill Russell has the highest defensive win shares BY FAR.

That's all great and well......but Kareem was automatic buckets. No way he sees the court ahead of Kareem. Get real.

 

[HammerDown]

I'd start Bill Russell over A.C. Green but not Big Game.

I know Kareem has given validity to the whole consolidation of talent thing but it's possible to take that too far. I just have a very hard time giving Bill Russell too much credit based on that and the rings. Red A. was a virtual gangster of basketball in those days and it was not a fair playing field. The bottom line is those guys did things in that era 50 yrs ago that wouldn't work again at any future point in the NBA. So it's real tough to compare.

Again, the '87 Lakers were the best team in NBA history and the second-best team in NBA history was the '86 Celtics. Jordan's Bulls would have been humiliated by either of those teams and #23 knows that. The stars aligned at the hands of the Bird man and Magic for MJ to come shine during a decade-long dearth of talent in the NBA, resulting in those with short memories to anoint him the greatest ever. He's not. Magic is.

And if I were picking to start an All-NBA team, I'd take the Mailman and "Big Game" James Worthy ahead of Bill Russell.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Players in the 80s were faster, stronger, and had way more skills. Just look how the players players played in the 60s.

This is a silly statement. It is true but in that LDO as if we don't know technology advances.

The fairest way to compare GOATs in both teams and players is their domination on their competition. That accounts for everything. Even there being fewer teams. Yes there was fewer teams but their was fewer players and fewer skilled players as well.

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

This is a silly statement. It is true but in that LDO as if we don't know technology advances.

The fairest way to compare GOATs in both teams and players is their domination on their competition. That accounts for everything. Even there being fewer teams. Yes there was fewer teams but their was fewer players and fewer skilled players as well.

Im not comparing GOATS, im talking about if these teams play each othe.r

 

[BOTSLAYER]

ok case closed you are right. is anybody saying that game would be competitive? I think we are all talking, we need someone to keep track of this.

Confirmed: Players get better and better as advancements in training and strategy advance
Confirmed: Bill Russell was the fkn man that every one seems to have forgotten
Confirmed: Jordan was really good...
In Debate: but probably in an era consisting of less talent
Confirmed: Celtics domination of the 60s is unmatched and never will be matched
Not Confirmed but not Debated: unless rules are made to get rid of that stupid collective bargaining agreement aimed at creating competitive balance.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Confirmed: the 80s was the greatest era in basketball thanks to Magic and Bird being geewillickers awesome!

 

[SY8goat]

I'd start Bill Russell over A.C. Green but not Big Game.

I know Kareem has given validity to the whole consolidation of talent thing but it's possible to take that too far. I just have a very hard time giving Bill Russell too much credit based on that and the rings. Red A. was a virtual gangster of basketball in those days and it was not a fair playing field. The bottom line is those guys did things in that era 50 yrs ago that wouldn't work again at any future point in the NBA. So it's real tough to compare.

Again, the '87 Lakers were the best team in NBA history and the second-best team in NBA history was the '86 Celtics. Jordan's Bulls would have been humiliated by either of those teams and #23 knows that. The stars aligned at the hands of the Bird man and Magic for MJ to come shine during a decade-long dearth of talent in the NBA, resulting in those with short memories to anoint him the greatest ever. He's not. Magic is.

And if I were picking to start an All-NBA team, I'd take the Mailman and "Big Game" James Worthy ahead of Bill Russell.

To be anointed the greatest to ever play, the player must also be a great defensive player. Therefore, Magic is not the GOAT. He was too tall and slow to guard the quicker guards and not physical enough to guard PFs and Cs. I never hear anyone talk about his defense. I wonder why???

You Honestly believe MJ's Championship Bulls would be humiliated? coming off a broken a leg, didn't he put 65 points on the Celtics @ Boston Garden.

You must be a Laker fan....