MadBum > Kershaw

[moxie]

Bumgarner went 2-0 as opposed to RJ's 3-0, but Bumgarner got a save in his relief appearance, whereas RJ got the win...the only difference regarding record is Bum came in when his team was leading in game 7, whereas RJ came in when his team was down. Also, Bum's relief appearance was 5 innings, while RJ's was 1.1 innings.

Numbers wise, it can be argued Bumgarner's WS was more dominant - more innings, better ERA, WHIP, BAA, K/BB

I like the cut of your jib, sir.


FTD!!

 

[msgkings322]

Bumgarner went 2-0 as opposed to RJ's 3-0, but Bumgarner got a save in his relief appearance, whereas RJ got the win...the only difference regarding record is Bum came in when his team was leading in game 7, whereas RJ came in when his team was down. Also, Bum's relief appearance was 5 innings, while RJ's was 1.1 innings.

Numbers wise, it can be argued Bumgarner's WS was more dominant - more innings, better ERA, WHIP, BAA, K/BB

Not to mention Bumgarner basically won the thing all by himself, he was the only absolute monster pitcher on the team (and they didn't have much hitting either). RJ had Schilling and better hitting behind him.

But yeah there are a few that you can say are all in the mix for best WS ever by a pitcher.

 

[tomcat1]

To be fair Bumgarner in 2014 had perhaps the best World Series for a starter in history. No one's ever had one better including Kershaw.

When Bumgarner was in his prime he was lights out in the playoffs.

What are you hearing about what the Giants plan to do with him at this point in his career?

As a Cardinals fan we'll take him since we sure can't hit him.

 

[msgkings322]

When Bumgarner was in his prime he was lights out in the playoffs.

What are you hearing about what the Giants plan to do with him at this point in his career?

As a Cardinals fan we'll take him since we sure can't hit him.

It's the biggest debate here and honestly we don't know if they deal him or not. I don't think they know, they still have to hire a GM. And he's only 28 he's still in his prime.

Atlanta would be perfect for him, and they have the pieces to trade us. I hope we do but it's hard to say.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Not to mention Bumgarner basically won the thing all by himself, he was the only absolute monster pitcher on the team (and they didn't have much hitting either). RJ had Schilling and better hitting behind him.

But yeah there are a few that you can say are all in the mix for best WS ever by a pitcher.

In all fairness to RJ though, the '01 Yankees were easily a better team than the '14 Royals, so the D'Backs needed everything they could muster to win that series.

 

[msgkings322]

In all fairness to RJ though, the '01 Yankees were easily a better team than the '14 Royals, so the D'Backs needed everything they could muster to win that series.

So did the Giants LOL. They were easily the least talented of the Giants 3 WS winners.

 

[tomcat1]

It's the biggest debate here and honestly we don't know if they deal him or not. I don't think they know, they still have to hire a GM. And he's only 28 he's still in his prime.

Atlanta would be perfect for him, and they have the pieces to trade us. I hope we do but it's hard to say.

I guess we'll never know how good Madison could have been without those self-inflicted injuries.

I've always liked him since he is a North Carolina boy.

 

[msgkings322]

I guess we'll never know how good Madison could have been without those self-inflicted injuries.

I've always liked him since he is a North Carolina boy.

Well only one was self inflicted (dirt bike). The other was getting hit by a screaming line drive when pitching. But at least it's not the kind of injuries where you worry about him having problems (elbow, shoulder)

He's got 10+ years of career ahead of him, don't worry.

 

[tomcat1]

Well only one was self inflicted (dirt bike). The other was getting hit by a screaming line drive when pitching. But at least it's not the kind of injuries where you worry about him having problems (elbow, shoulder)

He's got 10+ years of career ahead of him, don't worry.

You're right, I should have worded that differently since only one of Bumgarner's injuries was self-inflicted. But, with that said he still doesn't seem like he is the great pitcher he use to be. I hope he does have a lot of good years left in him because like I said, I've always liked him.

 

[msgkings322]

You're right, I should have worded that differently since only one of Bumgarner's injuries was self-inflicted. But, with that said he still doesn't seem like he is the great pitcher he use to be. I hope he does have a lot of good years left in him because like I said, I've always liked him.

He's always been better in the playoffs than the regular season. But his fastball velocity is down noticably so he may indeed have peaked.

 

[StanMarsh51]

So did the Giants LOL. They were easily the least talented of the Giants 3 WS winners.

My point was that although RJ may have had a better team behind him, he faced a better team in the WS than Bumgarner faced. The '14 Royals were a below average offensive team.

 

[msgkings322]

My point was that although RJ may have had a better team behind him, he faced a better team in the WS than Bumgarner faced. The '14 Royals were a below average offensive team.

That's fair. Roids and whatnot.

 

[tomcat1]

He's always been better in the playoffs than the regular season. But his fastball velocity is down noticably so he may indeed have peaked.

Some arms have just thrown too many pitches regardless of the age of the pitcher who is throwing all of these pitches. I don't know if this is why Bumgarner's fastball has lost velocity or not but Kershaw has lost velocity on his fastball too because of what many so called baseball experts say is too many pitches. Some of these same so called baseball experts also said Verlander was washed up before he left the Tigers but just look at what he has done with the Astros with a fastball that is still in the high 90s. I guess GMs make their money by trying to figure all of this out when you get right down to it when it comes to who do we keep and who do we trade.

 

[da55bums]

Bumgarner went 2-0 as opposed to RJ's 3-0, but Bumgarner got a save in his relief appearance, whereas RJ got the win...the only difference regarding record is Bum came in when his team was leading in game 7, whereas RJ came in when his team was down. Also, Bum's relief appearance was 5 innings, while RJ's was 1.1 innings.

Numbers wise, it can be argued Bumgarner's WS was more dominant - more innings, better ERA, WHIP, BAA, K/BB

agree, both were top worthy and if you go with numbers Saberhagen tried to get in the argument.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Some arms have just thrown too many pitches regardless of the age of the pitcher who is throwing all of these pitches. I don't know if this is why Bumgarner's fastball has lost velocity or not but Kershaw has lost velocity on his fastball too because of what many so called baseball experts say is too many pitches. Some of these same so called baseball experts also said Verlander was washed up before he left the Tigers but just look at what he has done with the Astros with a fastball that is still in the high 90s. I guess GMs make their money by trying to figure all of this out when you get right down to it when it comes to who do we keep and who do we trade.

Some pitchers are better able to adjust when their fastball velocity decreases then others.

 

[tomcat1]

Some pitchers are better able to adjust when their fastball velocity decreases then others.

This is true.

 

[Pure Steel]

Some pitchers are better able to adjust when their fastball velocity decreases then others.

And that's when you really find out who's secondary stuff is good......And not so good.....

 

[Pattersonca65]

And that's when you really find out who's secondary stuff is good......And not so good.....

We watched Tim Lincecum quickly fall off a cliff. He was a dominant pitcher that became mediocre after losing a couple of MPHs off of his fastball.

 

[da55bums]

It's the biggest debate here and honestly we don't know if they deal him or not. I don't think they know, they still have to hire a GM. And he's only 28 he's still in his prime.

Atlanta would be perfect for him, and they have the pieces to trade us. I hope we do but it's hard to say.

28 and in his prime, errr Giants should be very scared, they signed 2 other pitchers in their prime and they both crashed and burned...timmy and cain. Deal away

Here's why young pitchers don't get better as they age.

 

[msgkings322]

28 and in his prime, errr Giants should be very scared, they signed 2 other pitchers in their prime and they both crashed and burned...timmy and cain. Deal away

Here's why young pitchers don't get better as they age.

I'm with you but apparently many believe they won't do the right thing and do a tear down and rebuild.

I presume you do not want the Dodgers to sign Kershaw back?