Series Thread: Los Angeles Dodgers @ San Francisco Giants (3 game Series)

[OutlawImmortal]

This sums it up. Still, it's just one series. As the Giants proved last year, you can get soundly beaten by your rival and still be a great team.

I'm honestly more bummed about the news on Ryu than I am about the sweep, I've actually read that some don't know when he'll ever pitch again. Sucks.

 

[lasportzphan]

This sums it up. Still, it's just one series. As the Giants proved last year, you can get soundly beaten by your rival and still be a great team.

I'm honestly more bummed about the news on Ryu than I am about the sweep, I've actually read that some don't know when he'll ever pitch again. Sucks.

I tore my labrum and had surgery. He will have great doctors tracking his rehab. He will be fine.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I tore my labrum and had surgery. He will have great doctors tracking his rehab. He will be fine.

Yeah, you're right. I read that article a few days ago I guess they didn't have enough information at the time or just making it more sensational.

 

[LALakersboy24.7]

This sums it up. Still, it's just one series. As the Giants proved last year, you can get soundly beaten by your rival and still be a great team.

I'm honestly more bummed about the news on Ryu than I am about the sweep, I've actually read that some don't know when he'll ever pitch again. Sucks.

This sucks major balls. Time to go after Hammels. Fuck it!

 

[LASports96]

This entire slump at AT&T is pathetic. 30 straight scoreless innings (through the 5th inning today) at their park is a fucking joke - regression, pitchers park, bad luck - after awhile its too ay excuses before the number is so absurd its just inexcusable. Low point right now for the 2015 Dodgers.

Good think it's May.

 

[Smed55]

We lead, or at least led the league in scoring. The Giants have good pitching, shit happens!!!! Teams go through bad stretches, this won't be the last one.

It's like when some of you go all goo goo ga ga when we were playing well, we are one of the best teams in the league, we will have our moments and we will have our non moments, obviously this was one of the latter!

 

[lasportzphan]

Good think it's May.

It is May.... although, I have heard this refrain for 27+ years.

The bottom line (and you noted yourself) this team needs to make a deal for a front line starter. The bullpen cannot get over stretched. I think the offense will be fine (especially when Craw and Puig get back in he mix). But if the starter/bullpen harmony is not figured out, this team will not win the division.

 

[LASports96]

The team will win the division regardless, but adding another starter would make it a lot easier going through October. We already know we need another pitcher.

 

[Villain]

Dodgers versus Giants results from 2014, in chronological order:

Giants
Giants
Dodgers
Giants
Giants
Dodgers
Giants
Giants
Dodgers
Giants
Dodgers
Dodgers
Dodgers
Giants
Dodgers
Dodgers
Giants
Dodgers
Dodgers

If you were to look at that season series as a best-of-19 playoff where it takes 10 wins to clinch, the Dodgers would have come back from being down three to seven and won the series ten to nine on the last day.

So far this season, the series is Dodgers 2, Giants 7.

 

[lasportzphan]

Dodgers versus Giants results from 2014, in chronological order:

Giants
Giants
Dodgers
Giants
Giants
Dodgers
Giants
Giants
Dodgers
Giants
Dodgers
Dodgers
Dodgers
Giants
Dodgers
Dodgers
Giants
Dodgers
Dodgers

If you were to look at that season series as a best-of-19 playoff where it takes 10 wins to clinch, the Dodgers would have come back from being down three to seven and won the series ten to nine on the last day.

So far this season, the series is Dodgers 2, Giants 7.

While tough to lose to a divisional opponent because of the two game swing, I'm more concerned about laying an egg vs the Giants simply because they are the Giants.

But we torched those guys towards the end of last year and still, they went on to win the World Series. The Giahts, top to bottom, are a better organization and team. It's been this way for awhile. However, I'm hoping Freidman and Co. Get this turned around in the next couple of years. Like I said to start the season, we are a few years out from the World Series (fingers crossed)

 

[Villain]

The Giahts, top to bottom, are a better organization and team.

I really couldn't disagree more. The only thing they've done that demonstrates being superior to the Dodgers is winning 3 World Series in 5 years. Yes, that's amazing and I'm envious. Still, that's it.

The free agent signings and trades have all been terrible - outside of Hunter Pence. The three championships are shining examples of how "you can't predict ball." They shouldn't have gone to the WS against the Tigers. Cueto got hurt in the first inning. Verlander decided to go from being the best pitcher to being the worst. The Royals had the worst offense in baseball. Edgar Renteria fought himself out of should've-been-retired to be the MVP in the series against the farrrrr better Rangers.

Winning a World Series is legendary, and they did it 3 times in legendary fashion. But they won those championships in spite of having crappy offense and so-so pitching. It's never even the same pitcher being the best one, and they still have all three of them! Lincecum was the class of the 1st, then Cain, then Bumarnger. The first two guys are awful now, with equally awful contracts.

Now, this is the moment where the rings get waved in my face and bloviating stories of "chemistry" and other bullshit like that comes around. You guys know me, I'm a stats guy. The stats show that the Giants are shitty, with only a handful of exceptions:

1. Hunter Pence. Not shitty, just weird.
2. Buster Posey. The best catcher in baseball, and an awesome human. So jealous of the Giants for having him.
3. Madison Bumgarner. Best World Series/Playoff performance by any pitcher ever. Against the Royals who suck. He has dated a girl name Madison Bumgarner. He is also a Jeff-Kent-Class asshole (only class worse is the Milton-Bradley-Class).
4. Bruce Bochey. If you don't think he is (and has been) the best manager in baseball then you're wrong. Even with the Padres. That's why I hate him (and am jealous).

That's it. The entire rest of the team blows. In the last 11 years, the Giants have won the division twice and the wild card once. All three times they won the World Series.

My conclusion: Winning the World Series is not how you define the quality of the organization or team. Winning the World Series is how you define being hot at the right time. Quality is quantified by being consistent. The Giants followed the first two recent Championships with season records below .500 - that's not consistent.

I would put 100 bucks on it right now: the Giants will finish below .500 again this year.

 

[Smed55]

I really couldn't disagree more. The only thing they've done that demonstrates being superior to the Dodgers is winning 3 World Series in 5 years. Yes, that's amazing and I'm envious. Still, that's it.

The free agent signings and trades have all been terrible - outside of Hunter Pence. The three championships are shining examples of how "you can't predict ball." They shouldn't have gone to the WS against the Tigers. Cueto got hurt in the first inning. Verlander decided to go from being the best pitcher to being the worst. The Royals had the worst offense in baseball. Edgar Renteria fought


himself out of should've-been-retired to be the MVP in the series against the farrrrr better Rangers.

Winning a World Series is legendary, and they did it 3 times in legendary fashion. But they won those championships in spite of having crappy offense and so-so pitching. It's never even the same pitcher being the best one, and they still have all three of them! Lincecum was the class of the 1st, then Cain, then Bumarnger. The first two guys are awful now, with equally awful contracts

Now, this is the moment where the rings get waved in my face and bloviating stories of "chemistry" and other bullshit like that comes around. You guys know me, I'm a stats guy. The stats show that the Giants are shitty, with only a handful of exceptions:

1. Hunter Pence. Not shitty, ju
2. Buster Posey. The best catcher in baseball, and an awesome human. So jealous of the Giants for having him.
3. Madison Bumgarner. Best World Series/Playoff performance by any pitcher ever. Against the Royals who suck. He has dated a girl name Madison Bumgarner. He is also a Jeff-Kent-Class asshole (only class worse is the Milton-Bradley-Class).
4. Bruce Bochey. If you don't think he is (and has been) the best manager in baseball then you're wrong. Even with the Padres. That's why I hate him (and am jealous).

That's it. The entire rest of the team blows. In the last 11 years, the Giants have won the division twice and the wild card once. All three times they won the World Series.

My conclusion: Winning the World Series is not how you define the quality of the organization or team. Winning the World Series is

how you define being hot at the right time. Quality is quantified by being consistent. The Giants followed the first two recent Championships with season records below .500 - that's not consistent.

I would put 100 bucks on it right now: the Giants will finish below .500 again this year.

Now looky here Villian, I actually agree with most of what you just said., wow! I agree the best team does not always win, I think this happens in baseball more than any other sport! I will disagree with you about the Giants not being a good team, they are not great, they were not the best team in baseball last year, but they have good pieces that go with their good players, and I agree they don't have a lot of good players. I also don't agree with the team Chemistry BS you also say. They keep bringing that up when the Cardinals beat the Dodgers, then why didn't their great team chemistry carry them past the Giants?
The Royals were not the best team in the AL last year either. I will admit, the Giants and Royals are two of the better teams in the majors, and also as you said, it's just a matter of being just good enough to make the playoffs, then if you get hot, you can beat teams that are better than you! I also still don't believe the Cards were better than LA last year, hey, shit happens.
I'm not being a homer either, I still don't think the 88 Dodgers were the best team in baseball that year, in fact they weren't the best team in the National league, but I'll take the title, we just need to get back to making the playoffs year in and year out, and we will eventually play up to our game and win, or we will get breaks like the Cards or Giants and win one without being the best team! We just need to get there first!

 

[lasportzphan]

I really couldn't disagree more. The only thing they've done that demonstrates being superior to the Dodgers is winning 3 World Series in 5 years. Yes, that's amazing and I'm envious. Still, that's it.

The free agent signings and trades have all been terrible - outside of Hunter Pence. The three championships are shining examples of how "you can't predict ball." They shouldn't have gone to the WS against the Tigers. Cueto got hurt in the first inning. Verlander decided to go from being the best pitcher to being the worst. The Royals had the worst offense in baseball. Edgar Renteria fought himself out of should've-been-retired to be the MVP in the series against the farrrrr better Rangers.

Winning a World Series is legendary, and they did it 3 times in legendary fashion. But they won those championships in spite of having crappy offense and so-so pitching. It's never even the same pitcher being the best one, and they still have all three of them! Lincecum was the class of the 1st, then Cain, then Bumarnger. The first two guys are awful now, with equally awful contracts.

Now, this is the moment where the rings get waved in my face and bloviating stories of "chemistry" and other bullshit like that comes around. You guys know me, I'm a stats guy. The stats show that the Giants are shitty, with only a handful of exceptions:

1. Hunter Pence. Not shitty, just weird.
2. Buster Posey. The best catcher in baseball, and an awesome human. So jealous of the Giants for having him.
3. Madison Bumgarner. Best World Series/Playoff performance by any pitcher ever. Against the Royals who suck. He has dated a girl name Madison Bumgarner. He is also a Jeff-Kent-Class asshole (only class worse is the Milton-Bradley-Class).
4. Bruce Bochey. If you don't think he is (and has been) the best manager in baseball then you're wrong. Even with the Padres. That's why I hate him (and am jealous).

That's it. The entire rest of the team blows. In the last 11 years, the Giants have won the division twice and the wild card once. All three times they won the World Series.

My conclusion: Winning the World Series is not how you define the quality of the organization or team. Winning the World Series is how you define being hot at the right time. Quality is quantified by being consistent. The Giants followed the first two recent Championships with season records below .500 - that's not consistent.

I would put 100 bucks on it right now: the Giants will finish below .500 again this year.

I'm the odd man out on this issue.... You do not win 3 World Series in 5 years in spite of a "crappy offense and so-so pitching." From the top down it is a well run organization. They build personnel according to their park configuration (pitching first), their farm system has done a fantastic job scouting/drafting (Lincecum, Panik, Posey, Bumgarner). Get this as it relates to the 2014 playoff roster: Fourteen of the 25 players on the Giants’ wild-card and Division Series rosters originally were drafted or signed, then developed, by the organization. After the failed Dan Uggla experiment, Panik was a major reason the team excelled in the playoffs. They epitomize the "next man up" approach.

I assure you, it's not luck that win 3 outta 5 WS. It's advanced scouting, a culture, situational understanding, plate approach, Bruce Bochey managing the pieces afforded to him, and finally, winning breeds winning: Many of the core guys have been there before and play up to the pressure.

I define a well run organization by results and there is no better result than 3 WS in 5 years. You can feel good about your team because you like their stats, metrics, analytics and sleep easy at night because they do not get hot during the playoffs. However, discounting the fact that a team still has to win 85+ games to make the playoffs seems odd. I feel good about my team when they win a World Series, otherwise I just wait till next year.

 

[Villain]

I'm the odd man out on this issue.... You do not win 3 World Series in 5 years in spite of a "crappy offense and so-so pitching." From the top down it is a well run organization. They build personnel according to their park configuration (pitching first),

But their starters suck? Outside of Bumgarner, of course. Cain was good, now he sucks. Lincecum was the best, then he sucked for a few years and they gave him an undeserved contract in the midst of it. He's been about as good as Dan Haren this year (whoopeeeee) but that probably won't last the year... for either pitcher.

their farm system has done a fantastic job scouting/drafting (Lincecum, Panik, Posey, Bumgarner).

Well when your record is so shitty so often, you get higher picks. Those guys were no brainer picks. What about trading Zach Wheeler for Carlos Beltran? That was one of the most retarded trades I've seen any team make. Imagine if they didn't do that? They'd be much more formidable with a young arm like that instead of a shitbum like Vogelsong.

Get this as it relates to the 2014 playoff roster: Fourteen of the 25 players on the Giants’ wild-card and Division Series rosters originally were drafted or signed, then developed, by the organization. After the failed Dan Uggla experiment, Panik was a major reason the team excelled in the playoffs. They epitomize the "next man up" approach.

Oh come on. Uggla was not an experiment (I really dislike that impression. It's awful). Uggla was a desperation signing to delay Panik's service time. Also, that signing was only precipitated by giving a contract way too large to an aging 2nd baseman who didn't deserve it. Yeah, what about Marco Scutaro? Did you forget about that money flushed down the drain? They overpaid a guy headed for retirement and they were sent to desperation mode when a guy approaching his 40s hit the DL (whoa... really? old guys get hurt and can't play everyday? geez...)

I assure you, it's not luck that win 3 outta 5 WS. It's advanced scouting, a culture, situational understanding, plate approach, Bruce Bochey managing the pieces afforded to him, and finally, winning breeds winning: Many of the core guys have been there before and play up to the pressure.

I define a well run organization by results and there is no better result than 3 WS in 5 years. You can feel good about your team because you like their stats, metrics, analytics and sleep easy at night because they do not get hot during the playoffs. However, discounting the fact that a team still has to win 85+ games to make the playoffs seems odd. I feel good about my team when they win a World Series, otherwise I just wait till next year.

You're back into intangibles here, so on those points we have to agree to disagree. I prefer to be able to look at individual decisions in context and analyze why they were made. If you make a stupid move for a stupid reason, I'm going to think your stupid. If you succeed anyways, well, kudos to your accomplishment, but I'll percieve it as success DESPITE your decisions and not BECAUSE of your decisions.

I think Sabean is overrated. I think Bochey is an outstanding manager. I think the Giants have a very strong core of very good players surrrounded by a bunch of scrubs.


======

Also, while we're here, I'd like to point out that the Giants aren't exactly the Oakland A's. They have the 2nd highest payroll in the NL. 5th highest in baseball - Only 1 million bucks behind the Tigers. Their roster is more expensive than the Washington Nationals, who just signed Max Scherzer (you know, the top free agent last winter). The Giants signed all of Casey McGehee - who is now in the minors because he sucks and the Giants fucked up another free agent signing.

 

[lasportzphan]

So payroll should be indicative of success? Is that what you are suggesting by your last statement?

Every team makes free agent blunders. Are the Giants making a greater frequency ofbad decisions? You sighted Scutaro who was the MVP of the 2012 NLCS. Before his back went out he was a major force at the plate during their second championship run. I know, he got lucky hot at the right time. Point being, the Giants fill in spots and remain competitive. Cardinals make the playoffs nearly every year, but the line up looks far from opposing.

 

[Smed55]

So payroll should be indicative of success? Is that what you are suggesting by your last statement?

Every team makes free agent blunders. Are the Giants making a greater frequency ofbad decisions? You sighted Scutaro who was the MVP of the 2012 NLCS. Before his back went out he was a major force at the plate during their second championship run. I know, he got lucky hot at the right time. Point being, the Giants fill in spots and remain competitive. Cardinals make the playoffs
nearly every year, but the line up looks far from opposing.

Exactly,I don't think we even want to go there. The Dodgers have had their share of horrendous pick ups. I live in Cubbie territory and Carlos Marmol was a joke of a pickup, that made no sense what so ever, we can go on and on, most them being washed up pitchers!

 

[Villain]

The Giants make bad decisions. The Dodgers make bad decisions.

The Giants are still overrated by you.

 

[Smed55]

The Giants make bad decisions. The Dodgers make bad decisions.

The Giants are still overrated by you.

Please once again bless us with your wisdom oh great one! How can a team that wins World Series 3 times recently, be overrated?

 

[lasportzphan]

Please once again bless us with your wisdom oh great one! How can a team that wins World Series 3 times recently, be overrated?

Heh... Amazing, huh? It's like talking to the Twightlight Zone.

 

[Villain]

Please once again bless us with your wisdom oh great one! How can a team that wins World Series 3 times recently, be overrated?

I already explained why I think that. You're not very good at retaining information, are you?