Looking at my draft trade value chart

[imac_21]

I understand. But hey we have been pretty lucky with injuries. What if we had the rams bad luck of last yr and are down to are 10 th CB or whatever position. Also you can't always keep everyone you want as we get good players we give out big contracts. We ate barely under the cap now. We will see this problem next yr and on. Depth is key cuz you just never know. Ill be ok with getting rid of some picks but not throwing them all away for just a player. We are good because our whole team is solid. We could easily lose that if we get rid of all our picks to grab a great player. Just my two cents.

Also, I don't think we've been lucky with regards to injuries. We have fantastic training and strength and conditioning staff. We don't suffer from many injuries because of the way our players are conditioned.

 

[Flyingiguana]

I think Delanie gets a bad wrap on here. He's not a great pass catcher, but he does everything else well, stuff that makes this offense click.

I also think trading up for a #2 TE/H-back would be a little silly.

Crabtree and Manningham are playing well, but neither one is the difference making WR, and odds are that Jenkins isn't. If we have the opportunity to get a Johnson (Calvin or Andre)/AJ Green/Julio Jones type WR I think it's the right move.

i wouldn't trade up for either, should be able to grab those in the 2nd round.

 

[imac_21]

i wouldn't trade up for either, should be able to grab those in the 2nd round.

Or later.

But a WR or CB or pass rusher. . . that's something I'd move up for. Even a DE (Smith is aging, and it seems to be showing a bit this year).

If we could get another DE that could rotate through without a significant drop-off we could probably keep Smith at an elite level longer and have his replacement ready to go in 2014 or 15. They could switch roles where Smith would spell the young guy and Ray Mac.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I would add CB and DE to that list. They may not be starters right away, but they would dress and contribute on game day as rookies, and a top 10 pick has better odds of becoming a stud than a guy in the early 30s.

I would be very tempted to include a #1 WR on that list as well. I could see us going into next year without Moss and Ginn, possibly KW.

I'm not very tempted. I would add WR on that list. Randy Moss, Mario Manning, Ted Ginn, and Kyle Williams are all signed for 2 years or less.

 

[imac_21]

I'm not very tempted. I would add WR on that list. Randy Moss, Mario Manning, Ted Ginn, and Kyle Williams are all signed for 2 years or less.

Yeah, I added it outright in a future post.

I think Jenkins could do a great job in the Manningham/Williams role (they bring the same skill set).

Crabtree, when drafted, I and other said his upside was TJ Houshmandzadeh at his peak (fantastic possession/3rd down WR) and I think he's really showing that so far this year.

If we could add an elite talent at that position I think we'd be in very good shape. I would love to have that guy at WR that Smith (or Kaep in the future) can just throw the ball up to and get a big play out of it.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

There's actually room for depth on the defensive side of the ball right now for the mid-late round picks. We could improve depth at DE, ILB, OLB, and S. As it stands right now, each rookie in those spots would have a very good shot of making the team, especially at LB's and safety.

A mid-round ILB could easily take Dixon's ST's spot and be a backup if we lose Grant or wanted to provide a long term replacement to Gooden (and hedge Bowman's FA looming the following year).

A S could upgrade McBath and bump him down to the PS. You could even add another to compete with Robinson/Spillman in the mid-rounds if you really wanted to get crazy I It's not totally crazy if say we lost Goldson and doubled down in the mid rounds for competition.

Definitely have room for a fourth OLB spot which is effectively vacant right now. D-line is more hazy but someone could easily come in and beat out I. Williams. And Tukuafu's not a lock either, especially if it's a raw DE with the boom potential that needs development.

So that's four to six potential roster spots right here, not even factoring losing Soap or Goldson.

Another mid-late round pick at TE could easily upgrade Celek.

D. Walker could be gone, so there's another potential mid-rounder replacement.

Could definitely add a G to the mix to upgrade L. Davis who's old as hell.

Tolzien isn't a lock - although I'd hate to see him go. But if you could be sitting on a third rounder who you just can't pass up like when the Pats grabbed Mallet.

So those are all middle-late round options. And mid-late round rookie backups are a lot cheaper to keep around.

I'm in favor of trading up and out, but I just wanted to show everyone that there are options if we can't.

One last point:

Last year was crazy for the offense because it had to be so aggressively overhauled in FA AND the draft. Don't see that happening on D. Because of that luxury it should be much easier next year to get the first two picks on the field even if we drafted all those other picks. One could easily see an impact replacing the non-tag of Sopoaga/Goldson. So that leaves one other impact rookie expected to start and contribute. That could easily be a CB or a WR who wouldn't impact any of the other draft class.

Edit to this last paragraph: Meant the first two picks wouldn't necessarily bump the other rookies off the roster.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

If that happens to any team they're fucked. That's not a reason to continue stockpiling players when you have nowhere to put them.




Isn't that a reason to look to add talent rather than just adding more bodies?



We aren't "throwing them away for just a player." That statement is ignorant. We're talking about trading them for a star, not a an average player. This was a week draft for OLB, but if you could trade Jenkins, James, and the rest of the 2012 draft for Bruce Irvin, would you? And IRvin went 15th.

Had we done that, we could use our 2013 picks to add WR, RB etc. Instead, we can make a move in 2013 to get a difference maker.



Our whole team IS solid. We aren't getting rid of players we already have. We aren't talking about trading McDonald, Crabtree, Hunter and Culliver. We're talking about trading draft picks.

So far this year one of our draft picks has been active on game day: Trenton Robinson.

When I said player I meant a star. Guess what if we go and grab a star but sacrifice depth it can hurt us just cuz we thought we needed a star at ONE position. If we keep drafting where we are and picking solid players due to our scouting then we are fine. Like I said I'm not saying keep all of our picks but I'm not a fan of grabbing a so called "star" and losing some solid picks that can keep us solid for years and years. We can we back in dynasty mode. I feel if we keep drafting solid players in each round which we have the staff to do. Then we can be back to our dynasty years. We may pull the trigger on trading up which is fine but let's not get carried away with success that we get rid of everything we have worked for.

 

[Flyingiguana]

When I said player I meant a star. Guess what if we go and grab a star but sacrifice depth it can hurt us just cuz we thought we needed a star at ONE position. If we keep drafting where we are and picking solid players due to our scouting then we are fine. Like I said I'm not saying keep all of our picks but I'm not a fan of grabbing a so called "star" and losing some solid picks that can keep us solid for years and years. We can we back in dynasty mode. I feel if we keep drafting solid players in each round which we have the staff to do. Then we can be back to our dynasty years. We may pull the trigger on trading up which is fine but let's not get carried away with success that we get rid of everything we have worked for.

when it comes to a star qb, if u can grab him do so. luck and as of now geno smith are two recent qb's that would be worth blowing up a couple drafts for. for other positions, moving up for the right player would make sense but at most 10 spots, which should mean late teens/early 20s.

if nothing is there, trade back and collect future picks for a move up. pats do a great job at this.

 

[BINGO]

He's in the top 5 of the last 10 years, but you list 6 guys and an "etc?"

Yeah I could have listed 4 more other people to make it ten. In that list of ten, he's definitely in the top 5. Basically I was just listing people and I could have went on and on...at the end of that list Clowney would have been in the top 5.

 

[BINGO]

How many superbowls have Julius Peppers and Mario Williams combined for? Are they even still on the original teams that drafted them?

What does that mean? So Panthers not having the cap space to sign Peppers is an indicator that Peppers isn't a top 10 prospect to come out of the last 10 years.

Mario Williams isn't on my list of top 10 prospect to come out of the last 10 years. He would have been closed though, like top 12-15??

 

[BINGO]

The way he made it seem like was that we would completely trade s lot if our picks for one guy. Not a big fan of that. We need to keep drafting solid. Not saying have 11 picks but the normal 7 maybe 6 is always good to have with depth.

And you are absolutely right about that. I would trade all of our pick for Clowney if I had the chance. You can laugh at me now...but we'll see who would eventually have the last laugh when it's all said and done with.

 

[BINGO]

We have so much depth right now that NONE of our 2012 draft class is even active on game days. You want to add depth to the point where they aren't even making the team? I'd much rather trade many (most, all) of our picks if it meant we could get a guy who could come in and contribute in a significant way as a a rookie.

+1
That's how I feel. It's sickening that a guy like Jenkins can't suit up for games and he's a talented player.

Even if that one player flops and becomes a huge bust, that one trade / bad investment by us wouldn't handicapped us all that much if at all. We are so loaded that our 2012 draft and our 2013 draft can all be bust and we still end up going deep in the playoffs in both seasons.

Clowney is not going to bust and to me he's the first person I can think of who has a real chance of breaking Bruce Smith's sack record. I am that high on the guy.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Yeah, I added it outright in a future post.

I think Jenkins could do a great job in the Manningham/Williams role (they bring the same skill set).

Crabtree, when drafted, I and other said his upside was TJ Houshmandzadeh at his peak (fantastic possession/3rd down WR) and I think he's really showing that so far this year.

If we could add an elite talent at that position I think we'd be in very good shape. I would love to have that guy at WR that Smith (or Kaep in the future) can just throw the ball up to and get a big play out of it.

Hello Justin Hunter.

 

[BINGO]

Hello Justin Hunter.

We can wait where we are at and still land Justin Hunter if we think he's that guy with elite ball skills you're referring to. Worse case scenario trade 5 spots higher.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

We can wait where we are at and still land Justin Hunter if we think he's that guy with elite ball skills you're referring to. Worse case scenario trade 5 spots higher.

I'm not holding by breath on that happening. He's 6'4" 200 and has a much better route tree and will have more production in College compared to Hill.
he has been timed at 4.42 electronically, has broad-jumped over 11 feet, and vertical jumped 41.5 inches. As a track athlete he has high jumped 7-3 and long jumped more than 26 feet.

 

[mem49er]

We can wait where we are at and still land Justin Hunter if we think he's that guy with elite ball skills you're referring to. Worse case scenario trade 5 spots higher.

Barring injury, I can't wait to bump this post after the draft!

 

[BINGO]

I'm not holding by breath on that happening. He's 6'4" 200 and has a much better route tree and will have more production in College compared to Hill.
he has been timed at 4.42 electronically, has broad-jumped over 11 feet, and vertical jumped 41.5 inches. As a track athlete he has high jumped 7-3 and long jumped more than 26 feet.

Yes. He's certaintly a better athlete than Julio Jones and definitely a better athlete than AJ Green. However, he's not a better receiver. He reminds me of Tyrone Calico with his physical prowess, and Hunter does not have play with enough consistency you'd want to see from an elite WR. He can very well have a better pro career than college what we're witnessing in his collegiate career - but to me he's a Darius Heyward Bey type like receiver. He jumps like a gazelle and wins the jump balls with ease, that I love about him! However, he doesn't dominate like he should be. He derserves to go in the top 15 but he won't. He's better than Michael Floyd who went in the top 15 last year so anything is possible in terms of where he'll land. To me though, looking at the "pass rushers, pass blockers, QBs" I don't see how a team would pass on targeting those position for a 2nd tier WR. That's all I'm saying...!

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Calico had stone hands man. Hunter is light years better as a WR. Consistency hasn't been his problem. His problem has been the consistency of his QB and health. His QB has also missed lots of time to injury as well, he seems to be healthy now and hopefully that continues. You put Hunter 100% healthy with the same QB playing his best ball and you have a fucking monster on your hands.

Hunter's freshman season his QB was Matt Simms. I'm being nice when I say Simms is one of the worst QBs I have ever seen attempt to play the game.
Hunter's soph season he got hurt in the 3rd game of the season and was done. He was on pace to put up monster numbers with Bray as his QB.
Now we are in the present. Fresh off an ACL tear and balling.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Bray needs to play a hell of a lot better than he did against Florida and Georgia. That shit continues and his stock will be hurt.

 

[clyde_carbon]

What does that mean? So Panthers not having the cap space to sign Peppers is an indicator that Peppers isn't a top 10 prospect to come out of the last 10 years.

Mario Williams isn't on my list of top 10 prospect to come out of the last 10 years. He would have been closed though, like top 12-15??

No, Peppers is a top-10 prospect. My point was that no one, absolutely no one, is worthy of trading up all of those draft picks for - sans a super star QB.