Lockette claims AJ Jenkins will "surprise a lot of people"

[I_am_1z]

He didn't say Hall was better, he said Hall was getting game reps over Jenkins.

If you want to believe that is untrue, I don't know what to tell you.

That's the logic behind it. "He gets more playing time, therefore he must be better." If it's not, why even bring it up in an debate about Jenkin's talent level?

 

[imac_21]

That's the logic behind it. "He gets more playing time, therefore he must be better." If it's not, why even bring it up in an debate about Jenkin's talent level?

He was countering your ridiculous statement that fans don't know anything about Jenkins other than he dropped his only target.

They also know Chad Hall played more snaps.

He also pointed out fans know Jenkins wasn't getting on the field despite a need at WR (particularly after losing KW and Manningham).

That is pretty damning.

 

[I_am_1z]

Transformed himself into what? None of us know what AJ looks like right now. Every offseason there are stories about guys who worked hard, everything clicked, and they're ready to take that next step. And every offseason, lots of those guys don't take it any further. Hell, there have been virtually identical stories about Lockette himself.

I haven't declared Jenkins a bust. Far from it. I think he's got physical tools that we could really use. But he hasn't shown anyone much of anything to date. Until he shows it on the field - ideally in the regular season, I'll view these stories with some skepticism.

I'm glad you've caught onto that. I wrote in another thread that Jenkin's 2013 year will be in a lot of minds "great" (Yes, I'm fore sighting) because of how hard he worked in the offseason. I'm sure the taste of virtually not playing his entire rookie campaign has lit a fire beneath him, but he has always had what it takes to play in the NFL. There are legitimate questions about his strength and how that correlates to how a WR handles press coverage, but if you simply put Jenkins in the slot where he should be, hardly do you see that kind of defense.

In a nutshell, I'm holding my opinion over the coaches, yours, and majority of the 49er fanbase. As long as he secures that 3rd or 2nd spot and barring injury, we're talking 700+ receiving yards easy. But without any proof of what he can give us on Sunday, continue to take my opinion as purely speculative.

 

[I_am_1z]

He was countering your ridiculous statement that fans don't know anything about Jenkins other than he dropped his only target.

They also know Chad Hall played more snaps.

He also pointed out fans know Jenkins wasn't getting on the field despite a need at WR (particularly after losing KW and Manningham).

That is pretty damning.

Yeah, I'm a fan, I know about this.

 

[MHSL82]

Transformed himself into what? None of us know what AJ looks like right now.

I'm sure you got this from reading his response, but he was talking hypothetically if AJ performs well this year, people would say he changed, as if those three months miraculously changed who he is as a WR. He wasn't talking about what he looks right now. He does think that he is skilled and talented enough right now to claim that he will realize that potential - just not a different guy. Good as he has always been, inherently, just hypothetically performing better with normal NFL growth - not miraculous off-season.

I am not misstating this, am I, I am z? (Always wanted to say the "am I, I am" part it's like how madam I'm Adam can be read the same both ways.)

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I'm glad you've caught onto that. I wrote in another thread that Jenkin's 2013 year will be in a lot of minds "great" (Yes, I'm fore sighting) because of how hard he worked in the offseason. I'm sure the taste of virtually not playing his entire rookie campaign has lit a fire beneath him, but he has always had what it takes to play in the NFL. There are legitimate questions about his strength and how that correlates to how a WR handles press coverage, but if you simply put Jenkins in the slot where he should be, hardly do you see that kind of defense.

In a nutshell, I'm holding my opinion over the coaches, yours, and majority of the 49er fanbase. As long as he secures that 3rd or 2nd spot and barring injury, we're talking 700+ receiving yards easy. But without any proof of what he can give us on Sunday, continue to take my opinion as purely speculative.

I really hope you're right.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

That's the logic behind it. "He gets more playing time, therefore he must be better." If it's not, why even bring it up in an debate about Jenkin's talent level?

I don't think Chad Hall has more talent than Jenkins. Far from it. But talent doesn't always equal success. There was some chatter from the FO/coaches about how Hall was only in because he was a better fit for that particular play. But even if that's true, why didn't we see packages like that with AJ?

These questions are largely rhetorical. I don't have the answers. I just think they cast a fair bit of doubt on Jenkins going forward. I would absolutely love to see him come along as you are projecting. But I'll wait at least until the preseason to decide he's made the jump. And if we're talking about hard work this offseason, word is that Lockette has worked even harder.

 

[I_am_1z]

I'm sure you got this from reading his response, but he was talking hypothetically if AJ performs well this year, people would say he changed, as if those three months miraculously changed who he is as a WR. He wasn't talking about what he looks right now. He does think that he is skilled and talented enough right now to claim that he will realize that potential - just not a different guy. Good as he has always been, inherently, just hypothetically performing better with normal NFL growth - not miraculous off-season.

I am not misstating this, am I, I am z? (Always wanted to say the "am I, I am" part it's like how madam I'm Adam can be read the same both ways.)

Spot on!

 

[I_am_1z]

I don't think Chad Hall has more talent than Jenkins. Far from it. But talent doesn't always equal success. There was some chatter from the FO/coaches about how Hall was only in because he was a better fit for that particular play. But even if that's true, why didn't we see packages like that with AJ?

These questions are largely rhetorical. I don't have the answers. I just think they cast a fair bit of doubt on Jenkins going forward. I would absolutely love to see him come along as you are projecting. But I'll wait at least until the preseason to decide he's made the jump. And if we're talking about hard work this offseason, word is that Lockette has worked even harder.

It's not that far fetched of an idea that the coaches purposefully held back Jenkins. Johnnie Morton throwing a tantrum like none other after two short completions by AJ. Videos of AJ being told he lost figure 8 races that he actually won over Chris Owusu. There's something not right about this.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Spot on!

You certainly don't seem to be speaking hypothetically. It's clear that you are sold on Jenkins. That's fine. I want to see something - anything - before I let him off the hook.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

It's not that far fetched of an idea that the coaches purposefully held back Jenkins. Johnnie Morton throwing a tantrum like none other after two short completions by AJ. Videos of AJ being told he lost figure 8 races that he actually won over Chris Owusu. There's something not right about this.

What, there's a conspiracy to stunt the growth of our first overall pick? I have no idea what you're getting at here, but it seems absolutely absurd.

It's clear the coaching staff prefers to go with more experienced players, but AJ had a big opening and failed to step through it. I simply don't believe it's because the coaching staff was deliberately handicapping him.

 

[MHSL82]

You certainly don't seem to be speaking hypothetically. It's clear that you are sold on Jenkins. That's fine. I want to see something - anything - before I let him off the hook.

He's clear. I guess I should have said that he was speaking that WHEN Jenkins produces more people will claim that it was a miraculous improvement, when it wasn't in his mind. He just says it in a hypothetical manner, as in the future, because it hasn't happened and he is not talking about today.

 

[MHSL82]

It's not that far fetched of an idea that the coaches purposefully held back Jenkins. Johnnie Morton throwing a tantrum like none other after two short completions by AJ. Videos of AJ being told he lost figure 8 races that he actually won over Chris Owusu. There's something not right about this.

What, there's a conspiracy to stunt the growth of our first overall pick? I have no idea what you're getting at here, but it seems absolutely absurd.

It's clear the coaching staff prefers to go with more experienced players, but AJ had a big opening and failed to step through it. I simply don't believe it's because the coaching staff was deliberately handicapping him.

When you (CC) said that you were waiting until preseason to see if Jenkins would make the "jump," I was going to respond with the fact that I am Z said that he was going against the coaches, implying that they held him back in terms of playcalls - that if they had called more, he'd deliver more. At least enough to make those who feel it'd be miraculous to understand it was normal NFL growth. But I didn't want to place my interpretation in his mouth. It appears that he has claimed as much.

But I do also think that IF I am Z is right, that it wasn't a deliberate handicap of him, just waiting longer to let him play - thinking that would help him. I am Z, I think, is merely saying they were wrong about the need to keep him waiting. He was capable last year, in his eyes.

Now, I will stop talking about what he said, because I know that can get annoying.

I've always thought the coaches were doing what they thought was best for every player - For example, I could feel that if the coaches gave Alex Smith more of a load, he would produce more - more TDs, more yards, and more INTs. We'd win the easy ones, we'd split a few harder, and some would be lost either way. That's just an example.

But I never thought they weren't doing what they thought was best and I never questioned them in how they played him. Smith did and does have his limitations and Harbaugh managed that. I just didn't like those acting like he couldn't get more yards. He could, but he'd likely get more INTs. He could get more TDs by audibling into pass plays in the red zone, but we'd also lose the running game TDs. Net effect, fewer TDs. Worse QB. We now got a QB who can get more passing TDs this next season, keep the RBs' TDs (audibling), and rush a few himself.

The reason I mention this is, believe it or not, not to mention his name again, but rather to say that it's a common thing to see where a coach, even a great one, could be questioned. No one, of course, questions him on the QB position, including myself, just trying to add a connection to the argument that Jenkins was not maximized by the coaching staff last year.

There are certain things a coach can do, including Harbaugh, to improve on part of the player's production (i.e. Smith's yards), however it's his job to improve the whole QB/WR, the whole team. With Jenkins, he thought the development of Jenkins and the team was better served with waiting - even though Jenkins would produce some more (anything is more than 0-1, 0 yards) if he played more - at a net cost in their eyes. I am Z disagrees.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Question the coaches for a bad decisions, sure. But I am 1z is making it sound as if some members of the staff were deliberately holding a highly drafted player back - it's unclear precisely why. I don't buy that any coach would do that, at least with a rookie player. I could see some situations in which certain coaches would clash with certain strong personalities and might do something out of spite, but I don't see that on either side in this case.

 

[I_am_1z]

When you (CC) said that you were waiting until preseason to see if Jenkins would make the "jump," I was going to respond with the fact that I am Z said that he was going against the coaches, implying that they held him back in terms of playcalls - that if they had called more, he'd deliver more. At least enough to make those who feel it'd be miraculous to understand it was normal NFL growth. But I didn't want to place my interpretation in his mouth. It appears that he has claimed as much.

But I do also think that IF I am Z is right, that it wasn't a deliberate handicap of him, just waiting longer to let him play - thinking that would help him. I am Z, I think, is merely saying they were wrong about the need to keep him waiting. He was capable last year, in his eyes.

Now, I will stop talking about what he said, because I know that can get annoying.

I've always thought the coaches were doing what they thought was best for every player - For example, I could feel that if the coaches gave Alex Smith more of a load, he would produce more - more TDs, more yards, and more INTs. We'd win the easy ones, we'd split a few harder, and some would be lost either way. That's just an example.

But I never thought they weren't doing what they thought was best and I never questioned them in how they played him. Smith did and does have his limitations and Harbaugh managed that. I just didn't like those acting like he couldn't get more yards. He could, but he'd likely get more INTs. He could get more TDs by audibling into pass plays in the red zone, but we'd also lose the running game TDs. Net effect, fewer TDs. Worse QB. We now got a QB who can get more passing TDs this next season, keep the RBs' TDs (audibling), and rush a few himself.

The reason I mention this is, believe it or not, not to mention his name again, but rather to say that it's a common thing to see where a coach, even a great one, could be questioned. No one, of course, questions him on the QB position, including myself, just trying to add a connection to the argument that Jenkins was not maximized by the coaching staff last year.

There are certain things a coach can do, including Harbaugh, to improve on part of the player's production (i.e. Smith's yards), however it's his job to improve the whole QB/WR, the whole team. With Jenkins, he thought the development of Jenkins and the team was better served with waiting - even though Jenkins would produce some more (anything is more than 0-1, 0 yards) if he played more - at a net cost in their eyes. I am Z disagrees.

I might as well give you the password to my account because this is exactly what I'm trying to convey. But here we're coming into the cycle I was talking about before, where it's not likely any amount of explaining will come off as logical. It's just going to be retort after retort.

@Crimson The first impression AJ made to Harbaugh rubbed him the wrong way, and from there, their plan was to give him an insignificant amount of playing time. Something like an under the table/unofficial punishment. I think ANY coordinator could find a way to give a speedster more than one target, especially with PS fodder getting activated onto the 53 man roster. Even Antonio Cromartie, correct me if I'm wrong, had more targets than Jenkins.

 

[imac_21]

Yeah, I'm a fan, I know about this.

Then I guess you shouldn't have said fans only know one thing about him. Your trying to tear him down in the eyes so you can build up any moderate success as an "I told you so."

 

[imac_21]

I might as well give you the password to my account because this is exactly what I'm trying to convey. But here we're coming into the cycle I was talking about before, where it's not likely any amount of explaining will come off as logical. It's just going to be retort after retort.

@Crimson The first impression AJ made to Harbaugh rubbed him the wrong way, and from there, their plan was to give him an insignificant amount of playing time. Something like an under the table/unofficial punishment. I think ANY coordinator could find a way to give a speedster more than one target, especially with PS fodder getting activated onto the 53 man roster. Even Antonio Cromartie, correct me if I'm wrong, had more targets than Jenkins.

That seems like absolute bullshit. Do you think the coaching staff is so arrogant and self-centered that they would risk the season to punish a player?

I suppose Quinton Patton already has the #3 (if not higher) WR spot sewn up based on the first impression he made.

 

[I_am_1z]

That seems like absolute bullshit. Do you think the coaching staff is so arrogant and self-centered that they would risk the season to punish a player?

I suppose Quinton Patton already has the #3 (if not higher) WR spot sewn up based on the first impression he made.

Well I have no idea why Jenkins wasn't given an opportunity. Preseason, Reg. season, and Postseason, there wasn't any effort to make him comfortable.

 

[I_am_1z]

Then I guess you shouldn't have said fans only know one thing about him. Your trying to tear him down in the eyes so you can build up any moderate success as an "I told you so."

I love my I told you so's, but no I'm not tearing him down. (?)

 

[NinerSickness]

I love my I told you so's

Kind of like you told us so that the Boston bombers were being persecuted with "little evidence" & the older brother came back from the dead only to be handcuffed naked on video tape?