Lions trade for NT Haloti Ngata

[gandydancer]

Why give up picks? Obviously the Ravens were not going to pay him and cut him. Why not just sign him as a FA???

Iam just starting to read through these...

You are correct that they may have cut him. Does it guarentee he would come to Detroit? You asked that question yesterday. This way he is surely yours instead being in a bidding war.

Is Mayhew a idiot most of the time? IMO yes. He fucked up with Suh. Now they land a top 5 DT and that they gave up too much for. Now the dropoff is not that huge in talent.

 

[gandydancer]

Just a thought here, Are the compensatory picks calculated from just FA's who's contracts have expired, or does it include guys who were cut, as well? Just wondering, because maybe Mayhew thought that if Ngata was cut and the Lions signed him it would lower the possible 3rd round compensatory pick we're getting from Suh(next year) so a 4th and 5th rounder wasn't as bad?

Not sure if anyone answered. When a player is cut he does not count against the formula. It has to be a FA who's contract expired

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Check the websites showing cap space. The rookie pool is usually already accounted for and my recollection is of multiple positings showing $17MM AFTER the Prater signing. We should be in decent shape.

after adding up top 51+ dead money, myself, you ARE CORRECT, that Praters and Moore's money must be in there but their names aren't listed... I came up with 131,652,063... OverTheCap lists 134,810,199...
The adjusted rookie pool is/was ..... $4,141,082... not even sure if they discounted 4th and 5th rd yet

Draft - Over the Cap

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Ngata a short-term fix for Lions
Detroit fills D-line vacancy for now while Baltimore dumps salary, adds picks
Updated: March 10, 2015, 6:15 PM ET
By Sam Monson | Pro Football Focus

Pro Football Focus will be providing analysis for every major signing and trade during the 2015 free-agency period, accounting primarily for the quality of player and his fit with his new team, and focusing less on the financial terms of the deal.

Here are trade grades for the reported deal in which the Baltimore Ravens send Haloti Ngata and a seventh-round pick to the Detroit Lions in exchange for a fourth- and fifth-round pick.

Link to grade articles on every major deal

Lions get: DL Haloti Ngata, 2015 seventh-round pick

Ravens get: 2015 fourth- and fifth-round picks

Detroit Lions: B-minus

The Lions, needing to reload their defensive line after losing Ndamukong Suh and being no closer to bringing back Nick Fairley, decided to do so with a trade for Haloti Ngata from the Baltimore Ravens.

The Lions received Ngata and a seventh-round pick from the Ravens in exchange for a fourth- and fifth-round pick (all 2015 draft picks), giving them a massive interior presence and a player who has in the past been one of the league's most dominant forces inside. However, Ngata isn't quite the player he once was.

The 2014 version of Ngata was still a reasonable run defender, grading plus-8.9 (which ranked 11th) and his pass rushing wasn't far behind despite the lowly end result of two sacks. He tallied 18 total pressures from 327 pass-rushing snaps but had numerous other plays in which he quickly beat his man but the ball was out quickly. The issue is that Ngata's combined plus-18.4 grade was only good enough for ninth at the 3-4 end position and was less than half of what the best players at the position posted (ignoring J.J. Watt, whose score was on another level).

At 31 years old, the odds are that Ngata's best days have passed. However, the Lions have sent only a pair of mid-round picks to acquire him, and likely fancy their chances of bolstering the unit behind him before his play declines to the point that it becomes a problem. Ngata will likely remain a solid run defender for the team and still has the physical tools to be a threat rushing the passer in this Lions scheme, which calls for their interior linemen to attack a little more than the Ravens' scheme.

Ultimately this is a solid move for Detroit with limited risk, but it's not a long-term solution for the position.

Baltimore Ravens: C

Baltimore got rid of one of their stalwarts on the defensive side of the ball, jettisoning Ngata and his $16 million cap number along with a seventh-round pick for just a pair of mid-round draft picks (Detroit's fourth- and fifth-rounders).

Ngata has been a fantastic player for the Ravens, but the team has in the past proved the ability to plug bodies in to replace losses without many problems.

This year looks likely to be no different, with Timmy Jernigan grading very positively in his 312 snaps in 2014 and Brandon Williams looking like a very strong run defender. The Ravens will use those draft picks to good effect, retooling their roster. And though the loss of Ngata will be felt, they should survive relatively unscathed overall.

However, there is only so much on the positive side you can say about a move that is ultimately just a salary dump, and the best that can be said for the Ravens here is that they rid themselves of a burdensome contract and got picks back in the process.

 

[LPinSLC]

What does the cake rating mean? Does it mean I'm stupid for my comment? Does it mean I'm fat? Does it mean one is hungry? I'm having a hard time trying to figure all these new ones out.

 

[gandydancer]

Ngata should have a solid year however. But only a 1 year deal. Not excited because I know we will have to pay big time on an extension.

This is one of those contracts that Dr. Evil speaks of.

I may explain incorrectly. With the dead money being gone next year, we in a sense have two cap raises. You can extend him and to decent but reasonable contract. Give a four year deal and big bonus up front and small salary this year. His cap hit would basically stay low this year. Have a huge chunk of his guaranteed money come next year in salary. Have the guaranteed money paid in first three years and be able to cut in the fourth year with no dead money.

Now on the amount and guaranteed money. I am not even trying that part. It can be done that way though. Just Mayhew and Lewand have not had the luxury of cap room available in the next season.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Definitely not at $16m/yr. But I would be willing to make him the highest paid CB in the league, which means the deal needs to top $14,010,000 avg.
So I would offer 3yr/$42.1m with $30m guaranteed. That is completely in line with the Peterson and Sherman contracts.

I would throw a voidable 4th yr on the deal structured where its a given he would void it but I could still defer some dead $ into that year.

Signing bonus of $16m spread over 4 yrs. Salary $6, $9, $11.1. Cap hits $10, $13, 15.1, 4 dead.

I don't love that contract but I'm trying to win a championship.

Interesting. I read that post and thought "I'd go 3 years, $42.5 million, with $30 guaranteed." Guess we're right in the same ballpark there.

 

[Naughtymax]

Iam just starting to read through these...

You are correct that they may have cut him. Does it guarentee he would come to Detroit? You asked that question yesterday. This way he is surely yours instead being in a bidding war.

Is Mayhew a idiot most of the time? IMO yes. He fucked up with Suh. Now they land a top 5 DT and that they gave up too much for. Now the dropoff is not that huge in talent.

It still is a large dropoff (Geno Atkins is a large dropoff), but they fill their biggest hole with a player who next year will be better than anything they could have drafted or signed in free agency. Given what crazy salaries have so far been thrown around for veteran FA, it might be better to try to get our own guys back in the fold and sit tight, then see if there are some post-June-1 cuts that we could sign for depth.

 

[Naughtymax]

Looking at the actual 2015 cap numbers for the roster at Overthecap.com, the Lions have $121,136,087 committed for 2015 so far. The Overthecap space number includes the rookie salary pool and enough money to sign veteran free agents. There is a $17MM gap between the 2015 cap numbers for the roster on the site and what they're reporting as the 2015 cap number for the Lions, which is a lot.

 

[RobBase]

I'm trying to warm up to this Ngata trade. I get it. Like I keep repeating, this is a win now regime with a very small window to keep their jobs. Makes zero sense to groom a 4th and 5th rounder if you're not here to groom them in 2 or 3 years. They're gambling. Trying to stay in the playoffs to keep their jobs after clearly promising ownership they'd retain Suh.

Will it work out for them? Idk but I can't blame them for trying.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Looking at the actual 2015 cap numbers for the roster at Overthecap.com, the Lions have $121,136,087 committed for 2015 so far. The Overthecap space number includes the rookie salary pool and enough money to sign veteran free agents. There is a $17MM gap between the 2015 cap numbers for the roster on the site and what they're reporting as the 2015 cap number for the Lions, which is a lot.

yep. I was dead wrong on the cap space #'s

my apologies, Max

 

[Naughtymax]

yep. I was dead wrong on the cap space #'s

my apologies, Max

I actually think you're right too - most of the gap is dead money that they're not listing as a line item.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

here's another one Max, so I honestly don't know which source is correct. Spotrac and OTC both have a few different players listed on roster for cap space but Freep might seem a little more in line however no Prater or Bynes (too early) is listed in Freep

you have to scroll waaaaaay down to the bottom of page to get total #'s
Detroit Lions salary cap database

 

[Thruthefog]

He won't be going anywhere next year. It'll take the jaws of life to pry him out of that clown car.

 

[TBBishop]

What does the cake rating mean? Does it mean I'm stupid for my comment? Does it mean I'm fat? Does it mean one is hungry? I'm having a hard time trying to figure all these new ones out.

It means you're sweet and sugary!

 

[LPinSLC]

It means you're sweet and sugary!

That's fantastic! I'll be hoping for a few more of those moving forward.

 

[RobBase]

What does the cake rating mean? Does it mean I'm stupid for my comment? Does it mean I'm fat? Does it mean one is hungry? I'm having a hard time trying to figure all these new ones out.

 

[LPinSLC]

Do you have your TPS reports done yet?

 

[RobBase]

Do you have your TPS reports done yet?

 

[LPinSLC]

Wouldn't really say Iv'e been missing it Bob.