Lions/Dolphins Rush Defense Wager thread

[Stomp]

If the team is losing 35-7, like Miami was yesterday and it was 3rd and short. Yes. It is garbage time. Has nothing to do with down and distance, and everything to do with the outcome of the game already decided.

Sorry thats a weird argument great players don't stop playing just because the game looks like it might be out of reach. Is Watt the king of garbage time because he has 7.5 sacks in games that were decided by 14 or more points this year?

Edit Oh and lets not forget all those Ansah stats in last weeks blowout

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

He was injured

he wasn't injured in that Philly game. not all. not one bit. wasn't even listed as probable on any injury report. that was the game where Reggie Bush came up gimpy in warm-ups with a hammy or ankle injury. Fairley quit in that game, period. The momentum had swung Philly's way with back to back TD's after Det had the lead.

sorry man, don't want to be in disagreement here with you on this game but I won't ever forget that game. especially Fairley's neglect to finish the game out.

Fairley's talented. I will always question his heart. always. all JMHO and what I saw firsthand

 

[gandydancer]

I was off by a little. It was 3 tackles and a sack. He was hurt in the 1st quarter.

The Lions' rookie defensive tackle, who missed most of training camp and the first four games of the season with a fractured left foot, aggravated the injury during a dominant first quarter in Sunday night's 31-17 loss to the Saints.

Fairley, playing in place of suspended All-Pro Ndamukong Suh, had three tackles and chased down Drew Brees for his first career sack before hobbling to the sideline. ...

See Mike, again looking to deep into stats and not what happens in the game. Do you have to record a sack or tackle or a frickin hurry to have a impact. Go back and watch that entire 1st qtr. You will see a guy who imposed his will on that OL. I don't care what his numbers were.

That was the player I thought Mayhew drafted. Never saw it again and that is not on Mayhew.

 

[RobBase]

he wasn't injured in that Philly game. not all. not one bit. wasn't even listed as probable on any injury report. that was the game where Reggie Bush came up gimpy in warm-ups with a hammy or ankle injury. Fairley quit in that game, period. The momentum had swung Philly's way with back to back TD's after Det had the lead.

sorry man, don't want to be in disagreement here with you on this game but I won't ever forget that game. especially Fairley's neglect to finish the game out.

Fairley's talented. I will always question his heart. always. all JMHO and what I saw firsthand

Cool w me bro. But Nick hurt himself in that game. Big men don't do well in ice and snow.

 

[RobBase]

See Mike, again looking to deep into stats and not what happens in the game.

Skunks don't just stop stinking.

 

[gandydancer]

I should have said take quarters off. I was not talking about a play here and there. Suh would be dominant for two games and do nothing for few and be all world again. I'm not picking on somebody's hero, I'm just stating what I see when I watch. I've never been the guy to give superstars a free ride from criticism. Just look back at CJ posts or Stafford. I would never harp on guy relaxing when the play goes the other way.

Trust me, many times I also saw Suh get the tackle downfield on the opposite side because his persuit was relentless at times. Which gave praise for.

 

[Stomp]

Failing Fairly, failing to pick up his 5th year option, then failing to replace him was a big part of the reason Mayhew lost his job, especially after doing the same w Suh. Our line was our identity, and all we have left now is Ziggy.

Gotta do everything we can to keep him.

Yup huge contract incoming gotta do it though you pay your great players better than spending it on some washed up free agent

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

See Mike, again looking to deep into stats and not what happens in the game. Do you have to record a sack or tackle or a frickin hurry to have a impact. Go back and watch that entire 1st qtr. You will see a guy who imposed his will on that OL. I don't care what his numbers were.

That was the player I thought Mayhew drafted. Never saw it again and that is not on Mayhew.

If a DT imposes his will on the OL and dominates a game -- how exactly are they not going to put up stats?

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Go back and watch that entire 1st qtr. You will see a guy who imposed his will on that OL. I don't care what his numbers were.

got to here on Fairley in that 1st qtr. Him being dominant still doesn't quite compliment him enough. He was a road grading beast consistently beating combo blocks while collapsing that pocket.

 

[gandydancer]

Yup huge contract incoming gotta do it though you pay your great players better than spending it on some washed up free agent

I gotta ask you if he was worth 9 million to tag in Detroit how come he was not worth it with 31 other GMs not named Mayhew? I saw a few big contracts signed on DTs this off season. So there was a need there for teams.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Trust me, many times I also saw Suh get the tackle downfield on the opposite side because his persuit was relentless at times. Which gave praise for.

I don't disagree with this. The most impressive play I witnessed by the Lions this year was Ansah chasing down Adrian Peterson like 50 yards downfield (I think it was on that broken pass play).

 

[Stomp]

I gotta ask you if he was worth 9 million to tag in Detroit how come he was not worth it with 31 other GMs not named Mayhew? I saw a few big contracts signed on DTs this off season. So there was a need there for teams.

Ngata?

Edit i was referring to Ziggy when i said huge contract incoming

 

[gandydancer]

If a DT imposes his will on the OL and dominates a game -- how exactly are they not going to put up stats?

Thanks for asking... I watched Suh do it a lot Detroit. I guess you watched different games than me. Many times Suh collapsed the pocket and somebody else got the stat.

You know guys like Revvis and Sherman and old ones like Darrel Green or Sanders didn't have many tackles or INT. Why? Because teams avoided them and there side of the field. They changed the game without recording stats. It happens Mike.

 

[gandydancer]

Ngata?

Fairley...

 

[Stomp]

Fairley...

Sorry i was talking about Ziggy Fairley really isn't worth much more than he's being paid his 5th year option was 6.9 million i believe a little high but better than nothing aka Ngata

 

[gandydancer]

got to here on Fairley in that 1st qtr. Him being dominant still doesn't quite compliment him enough. He was a road grading beast consistently beating combo blocks while collapsing that pocket.

Almost every drop back he bull rushed two blockers. That's imposing your will on every play to me. Had he never recorded a sack or a tackle I would still be talking about that moment here. He was dominant that night.

 

[gandydancer]

Sorry i was talking about Ziggy Fairley really isn't worth much more than he's being paid his 5th year option was 6.9 million i believe a little high but better than nothing aka Ngata

Copy Stomp I thought you were saying they should have spent money on Fairley. My fault.

Suh mistake will not be made with Ziggy. Mayhew is gone. IMO they need to extend before he ever gets close to being a FA. Give him no reason to test shit.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Almost every drop back he bull rushed two blockers. That's imposing your will on every play to me. Had he never recorded a sack or a tackle I would still be talking about that moment here. He was dominant that night.

once again ... tbh, that game may very well be "the best game he ever played in a Lions uniform".. stats or not..

dead serious.. and he was a rookie to boot

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Thanks for asking... I watched Suh do it a lot Detroit. I guess you watched different games than me. Many times Suh collapsed the pocket and somebody else got the stat.

You know guys like Revvis and Sherman and old ones like Darrel Green or Sanders didn't have many tackles or INT. Why? Because teams avoided them and there side of the field. They changed the game without recording stats. It happens Mike.

If you collapse the pocket -- won't he get a QB hurry/pressure?

And yes -- I agree. When a CB has limited stats, it means they are doing a tremendous job and teams are completely avoiding them. Since you have watched Suh in so many games -- how many times have you watched a team run away from Suh all game? Until Detroit got rid of Avril and KVB -- teams used to run directly at Suh repeatedly.

It blows my mind the pedestal some have put Suh on. His value was and is as a pass rusher. In 5 years with Detroit, he was average one year against the run and horrible for 3 years.

It is exactly why I wanted to bet Rob that Detroit, without Suh, would finish with a better rush defense. Until Detroit had a playmaker at LB'er and DE's to set the edge and force runs inside or string them out to the sideline -- Suh was not good against the run. Miami doesn't have any of those things and that is why teams run all over them. Miami has exactly what the Lions had in 2010-2012. Good pass rushing DE's with no run discipline and average to mediocre LB'ers. I didn't compare Miami to Detroit to take a shot at Mangina. I did it because that is exactly what I see.

Here is a quote from a Miami Dolphins blog:

In 2013, he was 17th. Harrison was No. 1 that season, and Miami’s Randy Starks was No. 6.

In 2012, Suh was graded 78th of 85th defensive tackles against the run. His pass rushing that season was No. 2 at his position.

In 2011, Suh was No. 73 against the run. In his rookie season, he was No. 59.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I should say -- I didn't want that last post to come off as harsh. If it did -- I apologize. I think Suh is a great player, but IMO, Miami vastly overpaid him.