Lets trade Briere!

[banditshcky11]

also, if you think briere has played a lot of playoff games.. how many you think sid, malkin, zetterberg, datsyuk, and the sedin's have played? they've all been to the finals at least once, and made deep runs almost every year.. deeper than the flyers 3 rounds combined in the past 2 years at least..

It was more a curiousity question rather then a statemenet to discredit DB's exceptional playoff play.


Still doens't mean I have to like the guy.

 

[awaz]

alright so that last comment is deceiving.. just a quick look up and some mental math..

zetterberg/datsyuk lead the way at around 85
then briere at about 80
sid/geno/sedins are around 70

doesn't make it less impressive, you're comparing him to the best players in the game.

 

[awaz]

Umberger has out up 50-60 pts the last few years consistently without dealing with any major injuries. We have more then enough scorers now to the degree that some of them don't even see the right amount of playing time. I'd take a defensively responsible, heart and sole guy over a "diva scorer" any day. If the last 2 years have proved anything it's that you need a defensively sound team straight through to win the cup & Briere is just brutal defensively which is asking for trouble out of a C.

i disagree w/ that. who are you counting as your 'more than enough scorers'.. giroux i'll give you.. but counting on hartnell to score 37 again is a risk, expecting 25+ from schenn is expecting a lot, same w/ from couturier.. if voracek gets more than 25 he'll have had a good season.. simmonds i wouldn't expect more than 20 from, same with read, and if talbot scores 19 again i'll post nude pics of myself on this forum.. they will need briere's goals this year.

sure if you take such a small sample size (2 years) defense has won championships.. then you go back to the years prior and its the wings, hawks, and pens, who won primarily with offense.

you dont have to like the guy, but at least respect him. he's far more valuable than RJ Umberger. i loathe chris pronger but i can admit the team would be better with him on it instead of bourdon (who i love)

 

[JMlion71]

Horrible trade. I'd rather have Umberger over Briere any day of the week, not cause he's nessecarily a better player on paper but the dude never takes a shift off.



On a side note I'm wondering how many more games Briere has actually played vs the rest of the league in the playoffs since the lockout. There are tons of highly skilled players that don't make it past the 1st round so being on the Flyers(who've had some deep runs) definitely give Briere a slight edge in time to be able to produce.

This is all-time, not just since the lockout, but leaders playoff points per game. Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin are the leading active players. Briere has 13 game-winning goals in playoffs, tied for 13th all time. Cool stat for Friday the 13th.

 

[TimKerrRules#12]

Umberger should never have been traded, cap reasons, but Knuble should have been dumped 1st.

Against the shat Habs, he had like what 7 goals in a 5 game series, wtf man that is crazy goood, and Biron fucking stood on his head in that series to. Also Umberger had a clutch goal against the caps, in the Lupul game 7 winner series, luv that memory! Very Happy right now!!!

 

[banditshcky11]

i disagree w/ that. who are you counting as your 'more than enough scorers'.. giroux i'll give you.. but counting on hartnell to score 37 again is a risk, expecting 25+ from schenn is expecting a lot, same w/ from couturier.. if voracek gets more than 25 he'll have had a good season.. simmonds i wouldn't expect more than 20 from, same with read, and if talbot scores 19 again i'll post nude pics of myself on this forum.. they will need briere's goals this year.

sure if you take such a small sample size (2 years) defense has won championships.. then you go back to the years prior and its the wings, hawks, and pens, who won primarily with offense.

you dont have to like the guy, but at least respect him. he's far more valuable than RJ Umberger. i loathe chris pronger but i can admit the team would be better with him on it instead of bourdon (who i love)

I think his liability on defense negates the goals he scores which is hard to illustrate because that isn't what +/- does. When he makes a mistake in his defensive coverage it's usually a crushing blow and the team can't come back from it. How many times this year alone did he bobble the puck after rotating into the high slot or the point and have someone go the other way basically unopposed on Bryz?

If I had to guess goal totals I'd say something along the lines of...

G-30
Harts-30
Vorchek-25
Schenn-25
Read-25
Cooter-20
Simmonds-20
Talbot-15
Rusty-15
The various other F's to plug-in over the season 20
Our defense combined-30

That's 256 total goals a whole 8 less then this season, and between better defensive coverages and Bryz waking up more I think we'll give up closer to 200-210 goal agains rather then the 232 this past season.

The reason I took the sample size of the past 2 years is because they have been played under the current rules, it make no difference how the Oilers or Isles dynasties won by out scoring people because the rules are so vastly different.

I admit DB is talented, I don't think he plays the right position for his body and I don't think he's willing to commit to doing certain things on the ice. It's just my opinion, I know I won't change anyone else's mind and you won't change mine so it's completely cool that we don't see eye to eye or we'd have a lot less to talk about.

 

[TimKerrRules#12]

I think his liability on defense negates the goals he scores which is hard to illustrate because that isn't what +/- does. When he makes a mistake in his defensive coverage it's usually a crushing blow and the team can't come back from it. How many times this year alone did he bobble the puck after rotating into the high slot or the point and have someone go the other way basically unopposed on Bryz?

If I had to guess goal totals I'd say something along the lines of...

G-30
Harts-30
Vorchek-25
Schenn-25
Read-25
Cooter-20
Simmonds-20
Talbot-15
Rusty-15
The various other F's to plug-in over the season 20
Our defense combined-30

That's 256 total goals a whole 8 less then this season, and between better defensive coverages and Bryz waking up more I think we'll give up closer to 200-210 goal agains rather then the 232 this past season.

The reason I took the sample size of the past 2 years is because they have been played under the current rules, it make no difference how the Oilers or Isles dynasties won by out scoring people because the rules are so vastly different.

I admit DB is talented, I don't think he plays the right position for his body and I don't think he's willing to commit to doing certain things on the ice. It's just my opinion, I know I won't change anyone else's mind and you won't change mine so it's completely cool that we don't see eye to eye or we'd have a lot less to talk about.

Briere has huge flaws, anybody that watches hockeys knows that, but in the Stanley cup finals was it his D liabilities that cost the Flyers, noooooo. His contribution outweighs his flaws in the playoffs, regular season he shouldn't even be on the team, but.... the later is WORTH more always!

 

[TimKerrRules#12]

#Playoff Performers

Claude Lemieux, Drury, John Druce, Fedatenko, Richy, ......... and we all know the stars right

Point is playoff performers are fucking like gold, Penner is another great example

 

[banditshcky11]

Briere has huge flaws, anybody that watches hockeys knows that, but in the Stanley cup finals was it his D liabilities that cost the Flyers, noooooo. His contribution outweighs his flaws in the playoffs, regular season he shouldn't even be on the team, but.... the later is WORTH more always!

In theory you're right playoff performances mean more then regular season ones, but until they actually win a cup his performance doesn't really matter cause the Flyers mentality has always been "play for the logo on the front, not the name on the back".

 

[flyersfan4706]

Didn't read the thread, but NMC.

 

[TimKerrRules#12]

In theory you're right playoff performances mean more then regular season ones, but until they actually win a cup his performance doesn't really matter cause the Flyers mentality has always been "play for the logo on the front, not the name on the back".

Briere should be a part of the solution then right, Im not trying to be ass, but he will help win a cup, not hinder it. He is a playoff performer, that Simmonds is in a shit hole as far as Im concerned, where the fuck was he in playoffs, after a great regular season??? I thought he would be a guy made for the playoffs, watch him this year, if cant bring it, get rid of him. Vorachek even stepped up his game wtf right.

#Playoff Performers

 

[banditshcky11]

Briere should be a part of the solution then right, Im not trying to be ass, but he will help win a cup, not hinder it. He is a playoff performer, that Simmonds is in a shit hole as far as Im concerned, where the fuck was he in playoffs, after a great regular season??? I thought he would be a guy made for the playoffs, watch him this year, if cant bring it, get rid of him. Vorachek even stepped up his game wtf right.

#Playoff Performers

Simmonds was playing with a half broken face and more stitches then I can count. I'm sure that had something to do with his playoff performance. I mean hell if you can't see the puck that well you're not scoring.

 

[awaz]

I think his liability on defense negates the goals he scores which is hard to illustrate because that isn't what +/- does. When he makes a mistake in his defensive coverage it's usually a crushing blow and the team can't come back from it. How many times this year alone did he bobble the puck after rotating into the high slot or the point and have someone go the other way basically unopposed on Bryz?

If I had to guess goal totals I'd say something along the lines of...

G-30
Harts-30
Vorchek-25
Schenn-25
Read-25
Cooter-20
Simmonds-20
Talbot-15
Rusty-15
The various other F's to plug-in over the season 20
Our defense combined-30

That's 256 total goals a whole 8 less then this season, and between better defensive coverages and Bryz waking up more I think we'll give up closer to 200-210 goal agains rather then the 232 this past season.

The reason I took the sample size of the past 2 years is because they have been played under the current rules, it make no difference how the Oilers or Isles dynasties won by out scoring people because the rules are so vastly different.

I admit DB is talented, I don't think he plays the right position for his body and I don't think he's willing to commit to doing certain things on the ice. It's just my opinion, I know I won't change anyone else's mind and you won't change mine so it's completely cool that we don't see eye to eye or we'd have a lot less to talk about.

obviously doesn't make a ton of sense to argue this since they're guesses.. but i think you're guessing high.

1. the defense had 24 goals this year, 4 of them being carle's. even if schenn has a career year in goals, you're still 5 goals short.

2. expecting 15 from talbot and fedetenko is lofty. talbot's career high before last season was 12, so i guess his isn't that bad, he may get 15. fedetenko hasn't scored 15 in 4 years (when he was 29). i expect we'll get closer to 20 from them combined, then 30.

3. 30 goals from the other various forwards? if we didn't acquire anyone your leading men to take that role would be wellwood, rinaldo, and zolniercyzk. rinaldo was on a 2.5 goal pace, wellwood a 16 pace, and zolniercyzk a 6.5 goal pace.. which is 25 goals.. 5 less than you have.. and expecting wellwood to get 16 is probably high

so that's 15 more less goals, and a more realistic projection IMO.. add it to you're already 8 less and the flyers.. 209 total goals, good for 19th place in the league last year. for a team that's strength is supposedly its offense, 19th place isn't gunna get it done. and that's if everyone else lives up to youre expectations of them too

 

[raptorlife4]

Simmonds was playing with a half broken face and more stitches then I can count. I'm sure that had something to do with his playoff performance. I mean hell if you can't see the puck that well you're not scoring.

Dude,I respect your thoughts and shit but how the fuck can you still bash Briere? Is he perfect? No. Is he money when it counts? Big YES. The guys salary is ok now. How can you still bash him?

 

[banditshcky11]

Dude,I respect your thoughts and shit but how the fuck can you still bash Briere? Is he perfect? No. Is he money when it counts? Big YES. The guys salary is ok now. How can you still bash him?

I absolutely hate undersized, defensively liable centers who shy away from physical content, aren't good in the face off dot and don't know how to back check.

I played C for 22 years, played for the junior Flyers and all sorts of tourney teams, MLRH, Narch and state wars for roller. He doesn't do any of the little things that C's are taught from the time there little other then pass and shoot well. He should be a RW with his speed and shot, not to mention that would take a lot of the defensive pressure off of him, but he never works when you put him on the W which also bothers me. I think I actually hate him more because he dogs it most of the season then finally decides to play come playoffs. Shit like that costs you seeding and I think our playoffs would have been more successful if we finished 1-2 then 4/5 had had to play the Pens. I'm not blaming him for the season, but if he was the same player all year I would have to venture a guess that we would have finished higher.


I just hate the guys, I'm not saying I don't admire some of his skill set cause I do. He is just too far away from what we need as a 2nd line C now, I'd probably like him more if he went to RW, but he won't.

 

[banditshcky11]

obviously doesn't make a ton of sense to argue this since they're guesses.. but i think you're guessing high.

1. the defense had 24 goals this year, 4 of them being carle's. even if schenn has a career year in goals, you're still 5 goals short.

2. expecting 15 from talbot and fedetenko is lofty. talbot's career high before last season was 12, so i guess his isn't that bad, he may get 15. fedetenko hasn't scored 15 in 4 years (when he was 29). i expect we'll get closer to 20 from them combined, then 30.

3. 30 goals from the other various forwards? if we didn't acquire anyone your leading men to take that role would be wellwood, rinaldo, and zolniercyzk. rinaldo was on a 2.5 goal pace, wellwood a 16 pace, and zolniercyzk a 6.5 goal pace.. which is 25 goals.. 5 less than you have.. and expecting wellwood to get 16 is probably high

so that's 15 more less goals, and a more realistic projection IMO.. add it to you're already 8 less and the flyers.. 209 total goals, good for 19th place in the league last year. for a team that's strength is supposedly its offense, 19th place isn't gunna get it done. and that's if everyone else lives up to youre expectations of them too

I guess my estimates could be high, I just think Lavy's system lends a lot to some of these guys play styles and honestly with G running around dishing the puck like he does I think even Riley Cote could pop in 10-15.

 

[Evilflyer]

Briere is a good player, and in the playoffs hes a beast. I'm not saying he doesnt turn the puck over sometimes but hell all of our players have done it at the most inappropriate time that led to a goal against. I say keep his ass and see if this is our year to win it all, if not then we keep doing what we have been doing...wait till next year.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

Briere is a good player, and in the playoffs hes a beast. I'm not saying he doesnt turn the puck over sometimes but hell all of our players have done it at the most inappropriate time that led to a goal against. I say keep his ass and see if this is our year to win it all, if not then we keep doing what we have been doing...wait till next year.

Exactly and he will see some time on the wing as Schenn needs to be the center more often on that 2nd line as he grows....

 

[banditshcky11]

Exactly and he will see some time on the wing as Schenn needs to be the center more often on that 2nd line as he grows....

I think that alone would help my hatred for DB subside some. B Schenn needs to play C, he is the prototypical 2nd line C. Has same scoring touch but is physical and tough to play against.

 

[Evilflyer]

I think that alone would help my hatred for DB subside some. B Schenn needs to play C, he is the prototypical 2nd line C. Has same scoring touch but is physical and tough to play against.

I think with BS centering and DB on wing would be a great combo so I agree with you.