Game Thread: Let The Games Begin.....

[SeattleCoug]

True. Trout would’ve been the perfect Mariner in terms of him not talking to the media. You still sure Figgins wasn’t the reason they didn’t get him? I swear they lost their 2nd 1st round pick.

that was the following draft. I remember the Trout draft we took Nick Franklin a few picks later

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

True. Trout would’ve been the perfect Mariner in terms of him not talking to the media. You still sure Figgins wasn’t the reason they didn’t get him? I swear they lost their 2nd 1st round pick.

No this is probably the only thing we can't blame on Figgins.

No we drafted Josh Fields (an f'ing reliever) with the 20th pick in 2008 draft. He didn't sign and we were set to get the 21st pick in the 2009 draft when the new GM who didn't draft him signed him right before the deadline in 2009. Trout went 25th in 2009 and new GM Jack Z said they had their eye on him but not with the #2 pick in the first round. So if we didn't sign Fields before the 2009 draft, we could have had Ackley at #2 and Trout at #21. Sure we would have taken so nobody instead, but what is the fun in thinking that?

 

[wazzu31]

As much shit as the Mariners get for wasting Felix, what the Angels have done to Trout is 10 times worse.

Its like the Lions wasting Barry Sanders bad

Yeah, but the Lions have never tried. The Angels keep trying to win and have failed miserably. Which is so weird with hindsight that the Mariners chose Dipoto. Moreno has done everything possible to win, the Mariners haven’t. Just my personal opinion though.

 

[wazzu31]

that was the following draft. I remember the Trout draft we took Nick Franklin a few picks later

I know I haven’t looked it up. I honestly had never heard of Trout until McNamara came on KJR after Ackley got brought up and talked about how much they loved him and Ackley. I guess maybe the Figgins thing was just a misunderstanding I had with the radio hosts were saying and don’t care to ever look anything up. But I will give an excuse to the Mariners, not one team would have drafted Trout at number 2.

But to @NWinAZ point on rankings. Looking back on it, it seems really weird that Ackley was the top rated position player when he was a 3 tool player and hadn’t played the position they drafted him for.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Yeah, but the Lions have never tried. The Angels keep trying to win and have failed miserably. Which is so weird with hindsight that the Mariners chose Dipoto. Moreno has done everything possible to win, the Mariners haven’t. Just my personal opinion though.

Yeah thats fair. They have at the very least always tried to sign guys but the farm system has been Mariners Bad so they havent been able to "add" any talent that way. Probably what's killed them as much as anything.

 

[wazzu31]

No this is probably the only thing we can't blame on Figgins.

No we drafted Josh Fields (an f'ing reliever) with the 20th pick in 2008 draft. He didn't sign and we were set to get the 21st pick in the 2009 draft when the new GM who didn't draft him signed him right before the deadline in 2009. Trout went 25th in 2009 and new GM Jack Z said they had their eye on him but not with the #2 pick in the first round. So if we didn't sign Fields before the 2009 draft, we could have had Ackley at #2 and Trout at #21. Sure we would have taken so nobody instead, but what is the fun in thinking that?

I remember they were high on Trout but not at number two. I got mixed up with Figgins and Fields. I remember there was some excuse on why they couldn’t draft Trout. But ya, a closer with their first pick was dumb. You are better at the research than I, but has a closer ever been drafted as a closer in the first round? All of the great closers I can think of were either drafted as starters and failed or were in later rounds

But they obviously have a history of seriously flawed number 1 picks since ARod was drafted.

 

[wazzu31]

Yeah thats fair. They have at the very least always tried to sign guys but the farm system has been Mariners Bad so they havent been able to "add" any talent that way. Probably what's killed them as much as anything.

Which looking back on it, Dipoto had a hand in them having a terrible farm system. I am not a fan of going all in on FA’s but the way the Angels have done I would be totally on board. Maybe not true, but it seems they have always fielded a solid offense but their pitching always had held them back. Kind of the opposite of the Mariners during Felix’s prime.

 

[NWinAZ]

You are better at the research than I, but has a closer ever been drafted as a closer in the first round? All of the great closers I can think of were either drafted as starters and failed or were in later rounds

I say this same thing all the time, closers are made not drafted (high in the draft). To your question, it seems to me there has been a few cases over the decades of a closer being drafted in the 1st but I would have to get the old brain fired up to remember exactly who. For some reason, I thought there was one that went straight to the majors but it is the longest long shot in baseball to draft a RP in the 1st and have him be anything better than just a guy you could have trained who was a washed up starter or late round arm. That Fields pick has always bugged me that one GM drafted him, then right when it looked like we were off the hook and were ready to recoup the pick a different GM signs him. I was ticked and I didn't know anything a kid named Trout at that point.

I found this. A good read on the topic.

In The 2019 Draft, It Doesn't Pay To Be A College Reliever — College Baseball, MLB Draft, Prospects - Baseball America

Ten years ago, dominant college relievers were often rewarded for their performance on draft day. In 2019, teams understand that the skills necessary for college relief success don't always translate to the pro game.

www.baseballamerica.com

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[wazzu31]

I say this same thing all the time, closers are made not drafted (high in the draft). To your question, it seems to me there has been a few cases over the decades of a closer being drafted in the 1st but I would have to get the old brain fired up to remember exactly who. For some reason, I thought there was one that went straight to the majors but it is the longest long shot in baseball to draft a RP in the 1st and have him be anything better than just a guy you could have trained who was a washed up starter or late round arm. That Fields pick has always bugged me that one GM drafted him, then right when it looked like we were off the hook and were ready to recoup the pick a different GM signs him. I was ticked and I didn't know anything a kid named Trout at that point.

I found this. A good read on the topic.

In The 2019 Draft, It Doesn't Pay To Be A College Reliever — College Baseball, MLB Draft, Prospects - Baseball America

Ten years ago, dominant college relievers were often rewarded for their performance on draft day. In 2019, teams understand that the skills necessary for college relief success don't always translate to the pro game.

www.baseballamerica.com

Good pull. That was just a random question because the “best” relievers of all time, IMO, Lee Smith, Eck and Rivera was all failed starters for one reason or another.

 

[NWinAZ]

Good pull. That was just a random question because the “best” relievers of all time, IMO, Lee Smith, Eck and Rivera was all failed starters for one reason or another.

I would say about 90% of the top relievers did the same thing. They were all 2 pitch pitchers with live arms. Some Edwin Diaz comes to mind as well. I am with you and I am still pissed 12+ years later.

 

[wazzu31]

I would say about 90% of the top relievers did the same thing. They were all 2 pitch pitchers with live arms. Some Edwin Diaz comes to mind as well. I am with you and I am still pissed 12+ years later.

I remember it was either 2011 or 2012 all the rankings had the Mariners having the top two closing prospects in baseball with Steven Pryor and Carter Capps. Neither really did anything but it just seems that MLB closers only become closers because they couldn’t fill the potential of starter like they were drafted as. I don’t know Billy Wagner or Trevor Hoffman’s story but can’t imagine they were high picks.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I remember it was either 2011 or 2012 all the rankings had the Mariners having the top two closing prospects in baseball with Steven Pryor and Carter Capps. Neither really did anything but it just seems that MLB closers only become closers because they couldn’t fill the potential of starter like they were drafted as. I don’t know Billy Wagner or Trevor Hoffman’s story but can’t imagine they were high picks.

Yeah neither had super natural throwing motions and both got hurt.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I say this same thing all the time, closers are made not drafted (high in the draft). To your question, it seems to me there has been a few cases over the decades of a closer being drafted in the 1st but I would have to get the old brain fired up to remember exactly who. For some reason, I thought there was one that went straight to the majors but it is the longest long shot in baseball to draft a RP in the 1st and have him be anything better than just a guy you could have trained who was a washed up starter or late round arm. That Fields pick has always bugged me that one GM drafted him, then right when it looked like we were off the hook and were ready to recoup the pick a different GM signs him. I was ticked and I didn't know anything a kid named Trout at that point.

I found this. A good read on the topic.

In The 2019 Draft, It Doesn't Pay To Be A College Reliever — College Baseball, MLB Draft, Prospects - Baseball America

Ten years ago, dominant college relievers were often rewarded for their performance on draft day. In 2019, teams understand that the skills necessary for college relief success don't always translate to the pro game.

www.baseballamerica.com

The only one I can really recall doing much was Huston Street.

He had a solid career but nothing special in terms of relievers and definitely not something I would spend a first round pick on.

 

[NWinAZ]

I remember it was either 2011 or 2012 all the rankings had the Mariners having the top two closing prospects in baseball with Steven Pryor and Carter Capps. Neither really did anything but it just seems that MLB closers only become closers because they couldn’t fill the potential of starter like they were drafted as. I don’t know Billy Wagner or Trevor Hoffman’s story but can’t imagine they were high picks.

You are 100% correct. They are retread starters and most have short shelf life as top end guys.

Hoffman was actually a SS converted to reliever. Not sure on Wagner. I always remember him as a reliever but I'm guessing he was a stater at one time.

 

[NWinAZ]

I don’t know Billy Wagner

I had to look it up...lol. He was a starter his first 3 years in the minors.

 

[wazzu31]

You are 100% correct. They are retread starters and most have short shelf life as top end guys.

Hoffman was actually a SS converted to reliever. Not sure on Wagner. I always remember him as a reliever but I'm guessing he was a stater at one time.

Yeah, who the heck was the Mariners closer who was a failed position player and he actually was decent as a closer. Big, tall, feel like he was a Latin player. I can see his jersey like 39, 49 or something but can’t think of his name. And you all know I am way too lazy to look stuff up, just shoot off of my hip. But that is why I think it is silly.

A closer is like a long snapper in football. It isn’t a position you draft for or recruit for, it’s a position that evolves from being skilled at one niche thing but failing at the original position. And just like closers it is a massive valuable position that you don’t realize up you don’t have one. But once they succeed in the pros, you become valuable in free agency, not the draft.

 

[NWinAZ]

Yeah, who the heck was the Mariners closer who was a failed position player and he actually was decent as a closer. Big, tall, feel like he was a Latin player. I can see his jersey like 39, 49 or something but can’t think of his name. And you all know I am way too lazy to look stuff up, just shoot off of my hip. But that is why I think it is silly.

You got me on this one. I am sure you are remembering correctly, but I can't think of anyone off hand.

All-Time Mariners Player Pitching Stat Leaders

The official source for Seattle Mariners all-time player pitching stats, including wins, ERA, and strikeout leaders

www.mlb.com