Series Thread: LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz

[trojanfan12]

I bet if Kobe played this year the Lakers would have made the playoffs.

Nah, he's not old enough yet.

 

[trojanfan12]

Is there anything else more overrated than playoffs experience?

I wouldn't necessarily say it's overrated. But I also don't think that it's necessarily as important as it's sometimes made out to be.

You have teams like the Spurs that obviously benefit from having playoff experienced players. But then you also have teams like the Clips who are experienced, but can't seem to get past the 2nd round.

I think where it helps is in understanding how much more intense the playoffs are than the regular season, understanding how important each possession is, being able to adjust accordingly and also make in game adjustments.

I also think coaching becomes more important in the playoffs.

However, at the end of the day, either your team has the temperament to handle the pressure of the playoffs or they don't.

 

[tlance]

Point is CJ Miles is no Joe Johnson. Johnson is a 7 time All Star with the most buzzer beaters in the league by far in the last 10 years. He is used to being in that situation. Miles is not. On top of that, George ran right towards Miles to get the ball back. The double was gone and PG would have had 3+ seconds to work with.

I agree.

Not speaking specifically about those two plays, more about the general notion that the superstar should always take the shot. It was not a good shot for Miles. That much is clear.

 

[trojanfan12]

So, if you're the Clips and don't at least make the WCF this year...

Do you strip the team down to it's foundation and rebuild completely including the coach?

Do you fire Doc and try again with the same group, but a different coach?

Do you try to make some changes (i.e. trade Blake or CP3) but keep the rest of the group together?

Or do you stand pat, making only minor changes and try again next year?

 

[bksballer89]

So, if you're the Clips and don't at least make the WCF this year...

Do you strip the team down to it's foundation and rebuild completely including the coach?

Do you fire Doc and try again with the same group, but a different coach?

Do you try to make some changes (i.e. trade Blake or CP3) but keep the rest of the group together?

Or do you stand pat, making only minor changes and try again next year?

No i keep doc because who they're likely to play in the 2nd round. Only way I fire doc is if they lose in this round or get absolutely destroyed in a sweep vs the warriors. If it is a tough 6 game series, how can you fire him?

 

[trojanfan12]

The best player has to get the ball, but does not have to take the shot.

Yes and no. You want the ball in the hands of your best player and, if you get your choice, you want him taking the shot.

Having said that, you are also trusting him to make the right play and you live with the results. Whether that means shooting against a double team or passing to a guy who's open for a shot you know he can hit, doesn't matter. He's your best player and you put the game in his hands.

 

[trojanfan12]

No i keep doc because who they're likely to play in the 2nd round. Only way I fire doc is if they lose in this round or get absolutely destroyed in a sweep vs the warriors. If it is a tough 6 game series, how can you fire him?

You can fire him because this is a team that should be able to get past the 2nd round and has been good enough to get past that round for the past several seasons. Yet, they haven't been able to.

Their window to get past the 2nd round, let alone, ever even make any kind of challenge to the Lakers hold on Los Angeles, is closing very quickly.

 

[bksballer89]

You can fire him because this is a team that should be able to get past the 2nd round and has been good enough to get past that round for the past several seasons. Yet, they haven't been able to.

Their window to get past the 2nd round, let alone, ever even make any kind of challenge to the Lakers hold on Los Angeles, is closing very quickly.

Firing him for losing to the Warriors who are head and toes better than them would just be stupid IMO. Especially if it is a competitive series. As I said before only way I would fire him if they make the 2nd round is if they get embarrassed meaning sweep with an avg margin of defeat of 17 PPG or something like that.

I'm not the biggest Doc fan but it's really not his fault. They have a roster made to get out of the East....not the west.

They will never be good enough to get out of the West no matter who coach is until they make more roster moves.

They should have reached the WCF before with this group but this is not one of those years. Doc and his squad failed their fans when they had a chance to make the WCF at home 2X in the last 5 years or so. Game 6 in your house up 3-2. You must seal the deal. They did not do that in 2015 vs Hou or against OKC a few years ago.

 

[Heatles84]

No i keep doc because who they're likely to play in the 2nd round. Only way I fire doc is if they lose in this round or get absolutely destroyed in a sweep vs the warriors. If it is a tough 6 game series, how can you fire him?

I'd fire Doc, honestly. Why did the Clips fire Del ***** years back? They couldn't get past the 2nd round. Doc's not only the coach, but he's also the GM as well. He put this roster together and they're going to get obliterated by the Warriors. Hell, it's possible they might not get past the Jazz at this juncture.

 

[bksballer89]

I'd fire Doc, honestly. Why did the Clips fire Del ***** years back? They couldn't get past the 2nd round. Doc's not only the coach, but he's also the GM as well. He put this roster together and they're going to get obliterated by the Warriors. Hell, it's possible they might not get past the Jazz at this juncture.

They fired Vinny because he got swept in the 2nd round then followed that up by losing in 6 games with HCA. Much different situation than Doc. Say what you want about Doc but his teams are always in competitive series. I could be wrong but I believe all of his series with the Clippers went at least 6 games. Last year was actually the first year where he went out in the first round and we all know they win that series if both CP3 and Blake doesn't go down in that series. The 2X he was defeated in the 2nd round, it went 7 games and they should have won both series.

Much different situation than Del *****

 

[trojanfan12]

They should have reached the WCF before with this group but this is not one of those years.

That's the point. Whether or not they should be able to make it this year, is irrelevant to the fact that they should have been able to get there previously. The fact is, the Clips have underachieved every season that Doc has been their coach.

Doc hasn't been any more successful than Vinny Del ***** despite having better rosters.

You don't fire Doc just because of this season. You fire him for the teams overall underachievement with him as coach/GM.

 

[tlance]

You can fire him because this is a team that should be able to get past the 2nd round and has been good enough to get past that round for the past several seasons. Yet, they haven't been able to.

Their window to get past the 2nd round, let alone, ever even make any kind of challenge to the Lakers hold on Los Angeles, is closing very quickly.

They have a good, solid nucleus, but they really have not ever been the 2nd best team in the West.

I think they need to address their poor wing play. The best way to do it, IMO is by trading Blake. If they were able to land a guy like Jimmy Butler and make a couple minor moves to address the bench, I think the team would be better equipped to challenge the elite teams.

 

[bksballer89]

Doc hasn't been any more successful than Vinny Del ***** despite having better rosters.

This is just not true

 

[trojanfan12]

Much different situation than Del *****

Yeah, the biggest difference is, Del ***** only made the 2nd round with a roster that someone else handed him. Doc hasn't been able to get past the 2nd round with guys he picked himself.

 

[tlance]

That's the point. Whether or not they should be able to make it this year, is irrelevant to the fact that they should have been able to get there previously. The fact is, the Clips have underachieved every season that Doc has been their coach.

Doc hasn't been any more successful than Vinny Del ***** despite having better rosters.

You don't fire Doc just because of this season. You fire him for the teams overall underachievement with him as coach/GM.

You only fire him if there is someone out there you believe better suited to lead this team. Doc is a good coach, perhaps not a good GM.

 

[bksballer89]

They have a good, solid nucleus, but they really have not ever been the 2nd best team in the West.

I think they need to address their poor wing play. The best way to do it, IMO is by trading Blake. If they were able to land a guy like Jimmy Butler and make a couple minor moves to address the bench, I think the team would be better equipped to challenge the elite teams.

Exactly why I don't think you can get rid of him if they lose in the 2nd round to the Warriors. If they lose to Utah and you want to fire him then I'm cool with that. As you stated, they need to make roster moves. Not sure Blake as #2 is ever going to get you further than the 2nd round out west.

 

[bksballer89]

Yeah, the biggest difference is, Del ***** only made the 2nd round with a roster that someone else handed him. Doc hasn't been able to get past the 2nd round with guys he picked himself.

The top guys are the same for the most part. Role players changed but they still have Paul, Griffin, DJ, and Crawford as they had with Del *****.

 

[trojanfan12]

They have a good, solid nucleus, but they really have not ever been the 2nd best team in the West.

I think they need to address their poor wing play. The best way to do it, IMO is by trading Blake. If they were able to land a guy like Jimmy Butler and make a couple minor moves to address the bench, I think the team would be better equipped to challenge the elite teams.

Agree. They definitely need to do something. Part of the problem though is that their solid nucleus is getting older (CP3), is chronically injured (Blake) or are pretty much 1 dimensional (DeAndre). Also, if memory serves, they were touted at least once, maybe twice during Doc's tenure as legit title contenders.

 

[Heatles84]

They fired Vinny because he got swept in the 2nd round then followed that up by losing in 6 games with HCA. Much different situation than Doc. Say what you want about Doc but his teams are always in competitive series. I could be wrong but I believe all of his series with the Clippers went at least 6 games. Last year was actually the first year where he went out in the first round and we all know they win that series if both CP3 and Blake doesn't go down in that series. The 2X he was defeated in the 2nd round, it went 7 games and they should have won both series.

Much different situation than Del *****

It's really not that much different.

Del ***** got 3-4 years with the Clippers. Here's their playoff history:

Los Angeles Clippers Playoff History - RealGM

Their first year in the playoffs (CP3's first year with the team) they made it to the second round and got swept by the Spurs. The 2nd year they made it to the playoffs (Del *****'s last) they exited the 1st round in 6 games. Del ***** didn't get a mature Blake Griffin who missed his rookie year due to injury. Griffin was still a "baby" when it comes to his development as he was still in the beginning stages of his career.

Moving on to Doc, he picked up from where Del ***** lost and lost in the 2nd round to the Thunder. The next year however was their most embarrassing when they were up 3-1 on the Rockets and failed to close out at home in game 6. They would proceed to lose their next 3 games in epic choking fashion. The following year they got upset (due to injury) to the Trailblazers in the 1st round. And so far, this playoffs with Gobert (who's probably the Jazz 2nd best player) and Favors who looked like he was playing on one knee, they managed to lose game 1 on their home court in the 1st round.

Doc Rivers put this team together. For years the wing position has been their achilles heel and it's going to show again. This really isn't that much different from the Del ***** years. Especially considering Del ***** had two years of CP3 where Blake was just being introduced to the NBA in the meantime. Not saying Del *****'s a good coach - more pointing out how much Doc gets away with. Rivers is becoming the Jeff Fisher of the NBA where he gets to coast off that 08 title (similar to how Fisher brought the Titans to a super bowl).

 

[bksballer89]

Just took a look at the Clippers Roster Del ***** had who was defeated in round 1 to Memphis. You can make a case that it is better than this Clippers roster or their roster from last year.

He had Billups, Butler, Odom, Matt Barnes, Crawford, and Eric Bledsoe as his supporting cast. IMO that is better than the current supporting cast they have with this group.