Kurt Warner Not All RG3's Fault vs Detroit

[skinsdad62]

my feeling is this , gruden , Rg3 the FO need to have a "come to jesus " talk

1st the staff needs to tell Rg3 and snyder that he isnt close to being a pocket passer and the only way to win games under this circumstance is to use read option plays , bootlegs , moving pockets etc until Rg3 can "see the field " better .

Rg3 and his camp needs to understand this and more . they need to understand that Rg3 doesnt need to be a super hero back there and win on his own . let his teammates do the heavy lifting

mike vick won games in atlanta and had his team in an NFC championship game by doing what vick does best and Rg3 needs to embrace this . later on , when he isnt so "hyped " the passing "touch " will come much like it did for randle cunningham in his latter years

next the fan base needs to understand this as far as the preseason games go. maybe we arent seeing some of the above moves i mentioned because the skins are using this time in pre season to train Rg3 as a pocket passer and are working on that part of his game exclusively

the o/line isnt going to block like that for a hole game either . that would be like 12 sacks and 32 yds net passing . the skins are building an o/line to wear you down throughout the game so taking that into account as well

my honest assessment is Rg3 wasnt totally at fault there and 2 of the 6 hits you could pin on him (maybe 3 ) but we must also realize that he isnt able to overcome faulty protection . the issue here is if we cant get into good down and distance early and we fall behind then our game plan most likely will fail . so the skins , as a team need to figure out how to with stand the storm early

a way to do that is for pour defense to step up and shut the other team down while we weather the storm . the other thing we can do is use the pass early to set up the run and then vice versa as the game goes on

right now teams know that if they can rattle Rg3 early they can take us out of our game and they can win

but we need to execute early . no more missed blocks and dropped balls or else it will be a long day .

 

[countryroads316]

I wish they would play him exactly like Russell Wilson

 

[skinsdad62]

IF this was a fair starting QB competition KC would be names the starter. But Synder and SM wasn't RG3 so its RG3 no matter how he plays.

man stop the whining already and el with whats in front of you . you are all about what shoulda happened instead of what happened . we shoulda picked williams , we shoulda had an open competition because the career 1 win starter is the answer .

deal with what is . Rg3 is the starter whether you like it or not . he will be until at least a few games into the season

if KC had "seized " the job when he had the chance we wouldnt be here now would we ? he failed to convince the staff that he should play KC is fine and dandy when the play goes according to script , but when it gets more exotic he isnt quite as good and then he becomes a TO machine

now i do believe he moves the team better however he has to overcome his own demons as well and those cant be coached out of him either

 

[countryroads316]

man stop the whining already and el with whats in front of you . you are all about what shoulda happened instead of what happened . we shoulda picked williams , we shoulda had an open competition because the career 1 win starter is the answer .

deal with what is . Rg3 is the starter whether you like it or not . he will be until at least a few games into the season

if KC had "seized " the job when he had the chance we wouldnt be here now would we ? he failed to convince the staff that he should play KC is fine and dandy when the play goes according to script , but when it gets more exotic he isnt quite as good and then he becomes a TO machine

now i do believe he moves the team better however he has to overcome his own demons as well and those cant be coached out of him either

Kirk Cousins problems is way more easier to correct and fix then trying to make RG3 something he is not a pocket passer

 

[skinsdad62]

Kirk Cousins problems is way more easier to correct and fix then trying to make RG3 something he is not a pocket passer

i dont think so . a persons physic is much harder to deal with. and again if he seized the job when he had the chance we wouldnt be here

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

His second fumble and why he got hurt in two separate parts of his body on a single play was all vintage Griffin.

Yep. As I've said several times now that was a perfect example of the Redskins under Griffin. But if you guys actually believe Kirk Cousins gets away from those hits on Thursday I'll just disagree and move on. Again there were several plays where he had a clean pocket, something Griffin didn't see the entire night.

Not saying Griffin has improved pocket presence. And I'm sure not trying to convince you that he's the answer as I doubt it too. Just saying we couldn't really tell from Thursday night as he had no chance.

 

[j_y19]

Yep. As I've said several times now that was a perfect example of the Redskins under Griffin. But if you guys actually believe Kirk Cousins gets away from those hits on Thursday I'll just disagree and move on. Again there were several plays where he had a clean pocket, something Griffin didn't see the entire night.

Not saying Griffin has improved pocket presence. And I'm sure not trying to convince you that he's the answer as I doubt it too. Just saying we couldn't really tell from Thursday night as he had no chance.

I'm no shill for cousins, He may not have avoided those hits. But there are plenty of QBs in this league that could have avoided that first sack. Again, it was one guy with Scherff still between the QB and the DT. All he harts do was move right. He moved left into pressure. Nothing has changed.

As for cousins, I have no idea if he can be the guy. But I'm convinced RG3 is not. And I sure would like to determine once and for all about cousins before we lose him.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'd like to see our QB with more than 2 seconds to throw on every single pass before drawing any conclusions. I don't think that's asking too much. Fans, and I'm not including you in this, who claim Colt and Kirk moved the team better and therefore are better options while not acknowledging that the protection was totally different are idiots IMO.

 

[j_y19]

I'd like to see our QB with more than 2 seconds to throw on every single pass before drawing any conclusions. I don't think that's asking too much. Fans, and I'm not including you in this, who claim Colt and Kirk moved the team better and therefore are better options while not acknowledging that the protection was totally different are idiots IMO.

So would I. But it still doesn't negate the fact that Robert falls back into his bad habits when plays break down. And they will break down with this team with regularity. You also need to remember that the QB can change the protection scheme at the line once he has a chance to view the defense. This is an area that he is also very weak at. But also an area that experience should make him better. I don't think experience will improve his pocket presence, as I believe that is more of an intuition, or sense, that he just doesn't have. I'd be curious how good his peripheral vision is. Bet it's not great.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I would just like to see him given half a chance so we'll know. When David Carr and Patrick Ramsey failed under that kind of pressure it was partially blamed on the pressure. When Jason Campbell got burried playing behind a horrible OL it was pointed out that it was horrible protection, he was not expected to make miracle escapes.

But when it's Robert Griffin the movie is he should have been able to escape a DL crashing in on him in 2 seconds. I just don't see it that way. Fran Tarkenton would have had problems under that kind of pressure. At best he would have escaped but the timing of the play has been totally destroyed and it was all ad lib time. I'd just like for Griffin to actually have a chance to execute the play as it was designed. You have to admit that didn't happen Thursday, not even close.

 

[j_y19]

I would just like to see him given half a chance so we'll know. When David Carr and Patrick Ramsey failed under that kind of pressure it was partially blamed on the pressure. When Jason Campbell got burried playing behind a horrible OL it was pointed out that it was horrible protection, he was not expected to make miracle escapes.

But when it's Robert Griffin the movie is he should have been able to escape a DL crashing in on him in 2 seconds. I just don't see it that way. Fran Tarkenton would have had problems under that kind of pressure. At best he would have escaped but the timing of the play has been totally destroyed and it was all ad lib time. I'd just like for Griffin to actually have a chance to execute the play as it was designed. You have to admit that didn't happen Thursday, not even close.

OK, here is a stat I would like your comment on. In 2014, RG3 had 214 pass attempts and was sacked 33 times. KC had 204 attempts and was sacked 8 times. Exact same terrible offensive line. Explain the huge difference.

In my opinion, there is only one explanation. RG3. So to say that KC would have taken all of those sacks thursday night is ignoring these stats. Now, KC has a whole different set of issues that can kill a team just as much, but RG3 has had his chance. What we saw Thursday night was just a continuation of what we saw all last year. He reverted to his instincts in the pocket, which are all wrong. No change.

It appears what you want to see is RG3 in a perfect environment. Well that is not going to happen with this team, or any team for that matter. Look at the sacks/pressure Luck takes every week, yet he performs. As I said earlier, the NFL trash bin is full of QBs that can perform in a perfect environment. The ones that make it are the ones that can perform when shit breaks down.

 

[j_y19]

OK, here is a stat I would like your comment on. In 2014, RG3 had 214 pass attempts and was sacked 33 times. KC had 204 attempts and was sacked 8 times. Exact same terrible offensive line. Explain the huge difference.

In my opinion, there is only one explanation. RG3. So to say that KC would have taken all of those sacks thursday night is ignoring these stats. Now, KC has a whole different set of issues that can kill a team just as much, but RG3 has had his chance. What we saw Thursday night was just a continuation of what we saw all last year. He reverted to his instincts in the pocket, which are all wrong. No change.

It appears what you want to see is RG3 in a perfect environment. Well that is not going to happen with this team, or any team for that matter. Look at the sacks/pressure Luck takes every week, yet he performs. As I said earlier, the NFL trash bin is full of QBs that can perform in a perfect environment. The ones that make it are the ones that can perform when shit breaks down.

Here is another stat. With basically the same pass attempts, KC turned the ball over 9 times (all INTs). RG3 turned the ball over 10 times (combination of INTs and fumbles). Neither are good.

 

[deanpet21]

Its just hilarious that people on here don't see that KC is the better Qb for this team than RG3. Rich Tandler said it best, Luck and Rodgers have horrible Offensive lines but they do what they have to do to get passes off. KC learning curve was last year. You cant expect him to come in and dominate. Rg3 had his chance its time to move on.

 

[Stymietee]

Its just hilarious that people on here don't see that KC is the better Qb for this team than RG3. Rich Tandler said it best, Luck and Rodgers have horrible Offensive lines but they do what they have to do to get passes off. KC learning curve was last year. You cant expect him to come in and dominate. Rg3 had his chance its time to move on.

The level of amusement or angst is dependant upon the lens that one views this team. If for example you look at KC's actual work in Gruden's system maybe you're not as easily amused. At the same time Griffin is certainly not conjuring up memories of his rookie season either. The question going for to me is which of (as of this moment) three bad QB's gives them the best chance to win. Some will say and others disagree that the psychological funk that KC displayed is more difficult to overcome than the physical damage that befell Griffin. So far, it appears that the team decision makers have sided with those who argue against KC.

BTW: notice there was absolutely no mention in my response of CM, there was a reason for this, remember the one hit wonder Brandon Banks?..........Same thing!

 

[deanpet21]

The read option offense is gone. That is what Rg3 excelled in. Gruden is not brining it back. First b/c Rg3 will get hurt in that offense and the Redskins will have to Guranttee him 15 mil next year. 2nd he is not the same athlete as he was in 2012 b/c of the hits and injuries.

 

[j_y19]

Its just hilarious that people on here don't see that KC is the better Qb for this team than RG3. Rich Tandler said it best, Luck and Rodgers have horrible Offensive lines but they do what they have to do to get passes off. KC learning curve was last year. You cant expect him to come in and dominate. Rg3 had his chance its time to move on.

Dean, there is no way you can say KC is a better QB. That is just evidenced by his win loss record that, at the end of day day, is all that matters. The best you can say is that the verdict on KC is still inconclusive. The question, IMO, is can he become a better QB. I would like to find out before he is gone.

In reality, the future QB for us is probably not on this team.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

OK, here is a stat I would like your comment on. In 2014, RG3 had 214 pass attempts and was sacked 33 times. KC had 204 attempts and was sacked 8 times. Exact same terrible offensive line. Explain the huge difference.

In my opinion, there is only one explanation. RG3. So to say that KC would have taken all of those sacks thursday night is ignoring these stats. Now, KC has a whole different set of issues that can kill a team just as much, but RG3 has had his chance. What we saw Thursday night was just a continuation of what we saw all last year. He reverted to his instincts in the pocket, which are all wrong. No change.

It appears what you want to see is RG3 in a perfect environment. Well that is not going to happen with this team, or any team for that matter. Look at the sacks/pressure Luck takes every week, yet he performs. As I said earlier, the NFL trash bin is full of QBs that can perform in a perfect environment. The ones that make it are the ones that can perform when shit breaks down.

As I have said a half a dozen times now I understand Griffin's problems in the past. Not sure what the purpose of answering this question is, I have acknowledged his problems. Again my point is because of this problem you want to put every sack and hit Thursday night on him. I would bet a thousand dollars that back when Jason Campbell was playing I highly doubt you would have put all the sacks he took squarely on his shoulders as you are doing with Griffin. And I disagree with you that Jason Campbell escapes that first play and gets rid of the ball before big hits on the others. Not a chance IMO.


I'm not asking for a perfect situation as you are claiming. I'm just asking for him to have half a chance and getting hit .98 after receiving the ball is not being given a chance. And I don''t think it's too much to ask for at least some of the plays to be protected well enough for him to actually execute the play. That was simply not the case.

Its just hilarious that people on here don't see that KC is the better Qb for this team than RG3. Rich Tandler said it best, Luck and Rodgers have horrible Offensive lines but they do what they have to do to get passes off. KC learning curve was last year. You cant expect him to come in and dominate. Rg3 had his chance its time to move on.

Again I agree with you. Today, right now, Kirk is the better option. That has never been my argument. I have gone out of my way to be clear that I understand Griffin is probably not the answer, I'm just question the opinion that taking a hit 2 seconds after getting the snap is his fault.

I honestly don't know how many more times I need to say this.

 

[deanpet21]

You have to give KC a shot jy19. Last year was his learning curve. Every young QB deserves a learning curve. Just b/c he is a 4th round pick he is not entitled to a learning curve.?

 

[deanpet21]

Plus jy19 KC is the better QB b/c he runs Gruden offense better.

 

[j_y19]

As I have said oh 4-5 times now I understand Griffin's problems in the past. Not sure what the purpose of answering this question is. Again I have acknowledged his problems, again my point is because of this problem you want to put every sack and hit Thursday night on him. I just don't see it that way and I don'' think it's too much to ask for at least some of the plays to be protected well enough for him to actually execute the play. That was simply not the case.

I'm not asking for a perfect situation as you are claiming. I'm just asking for him to have half a chance and getting hit .98 after receiving the ball is not being given a chance.





Again I agree with you. Today, right now, Kirk is the better option. That has never been my argument. I honestly don't know how many more times I need to say this.

Because my whole point is that Thursday night showed me that Griffins problems of the past are still his problems and I'm of the belief they are insurmountable. I never said all of his hits were his fault. I continually pointed out one, the first, as an example of one that he contributed to only. But it's an example that proves, to me, that he hasn't advanced.