Kirk Cousins

[Montalban]

Yeah, who knows why guys don't turn out. From an outsider perspective, he seemed to have the numbers. And Baalke wasn't the only GM who saw potential in the guy. I thought maybe it was scheme, maybe it was coaching. But Kelly's scheme was certainly different from what Tomsula was running. And the OL coach last year (was his name Laughlin?), he certainly had a good rep from his many years with the Giants. Maybe it was simply lack of smarts, maybe he didn't have the right motivation, maybe he just didn't love football. If someone can come up with the key that unlocks how to predict athletic success in football and baseball and basketball, they'll make a lot of money. It's a mystery. To me, anyway.

I think Martin had some injury setbacks as well, didn't he?

 

[Pattersonca65]

I read on KNBR that Dan Snyder is the guy holding up the potential trade, due to his dislike of the Shanahan(s) and the whole Robert Griffin III/Cousins issues that plagued the franchise. Don't know if it's true, but it sounds believable.

Kirk Cousins asked Dan Snyder for a trade and he wants to go to San Fran. I read the same story you have listed above. Sounds like an Al Davis type vendetta to me. Not a good idea to make things so personal. Their front office appears to have become more dysfunctional then even the 49ers was at its worst point

 

[Pattersonca65]

I think Martin had some injury setbacks as well, didn't he?

Martin was drafted injured. Had a bad knee coming out of college and he was only 20 years. The plan was to let him sit his rookie year but injuries on the oline forced the team to start him before they wanted to. I understand his early struggles. It can take time for olineman to develop but he just didn't seem to be improve at all. He was just getting manhandled on the oline whether he was playing guard or center. Maritin, Pears, and Devey were the worst starting three in the NFL.

 

[Montalban]

Martin was drafted injured. Had a bad knee coming out of college and he was only 20 years. The plan was to let him sit his rookie year but injuries on the oline forced the team to start him before they wanted to. I understand his early struggles. It can take time for olineman to develop but he just didn't seem to be improve at all. He was just getting manhandled on the oline whether he was playing guard or center. Maritin, Pears, and Devey were the worst starting three in the NFL.

Yes I remember now about the injury in college. I recall hearing something about Martin saying he made a mistake coming out of college early. He wanted to stay at SC but felt he better go while his knee was still serviceable. I think he got some bad advice.

 

[deep9er]

I read on KNBR that Dan Snyder is the guy holding up the potential trade, due to his dislike of the Shanahan(s) and the whole Robert Griffin III/Cousins issues that plagued the franchise. Don't know if it's true, but it sounds believable.

Guess he's taking it personally?

He isn't in a position to do this because the more important thing - the bigger picture - is what's best for his team? If this makes his TEAM worse, that affects him more than Cousins alone.

Even if he only gets our 3rd rounder (#2 in that round), that beats a 3rd round comp pick which is at the end of the round.

 

[VASFfan]

Guess he's taking it personally?

He isn't in a position to do this because the more important thing - the bigger picture - is what's best for his team? If this makes his TEAM worse, that affects him more than Cousins alone.

Even if he only gets our 3rd rounder (#2 in that round), that beats a 3rd round comp pick which is at the end of the round.

Living in the DC area as I do, I get ringside seats to watch those two clowns, Snyder and Allen, run the Skins. It's pathetic, the Skins fans deserve so much better. Snyder's ego is enormous, and Allen is his professional fluffer. He may or may not know how to run the administrative side of a football team, but Allen knows basically nothing about talent evaluation. Plus, the latest reports suggest that Allen is if you can believe it jealous of McCloughan's success in improving the Skins roster and of all the adulation he's gotten as a result. So he's spent the past few months clashing with McCloughan, rejecting some of his personnel moves, limiting his authority, and now looks like he's about to force Scot out. He's made mistakes (most notably not doing an adequate job of shoring up the Skins lines) but the way he's getting treated is abominable.

Like you say, Snyder and Allen seem willing to eventually let Cousins go for nothing, rather than let Kyle Shanahan (who apparently they despise, he and his father both) get him now. If they had any sense, they'd get what they can now and start fresh.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Yes I remember now about the injury in college. I recall hearing something about Martin saying he made a mistake coming out of college early. He wanted to stay at SC but felt he better go while his knee was still serviceable. I think he got some bad advice.

Yes, he clearly wasn't ready for the NFL and the 49ers throwing him in there only made things worse

 

[Pattersonca65]

Living in the DC area as I do, I get ringside seats to watch those two clowns, Snyder and Allen, run the Skins. It's pathetic, the Skins fans deserve so much better. Snyder's ego is enormous, and Allen is his professional fluffer. He may or may not know how to run the administrative side of a football team, but Allen knows basically nothing about talent evaluation. Plus, the latest reports suggest that Allen is if you can believe it jealous of McCloughan's success in improving the Skins roster and of all the adulation he's gotten as a result. So he's spent the past few months clashing with McCloughan, rejecting some of his personnel moves, limiting his authority, and now looks like he's about to force Scot out. He's made mistakes (most notably not doing an adequate job of shoring up the Skins lines) but the way he's getting treated is abominable.

Like you say, Snyder and Allen seem willing to eventually let Cousins go for nothing, rather than let Kyle Shanahan (who apparently they despise, he and his father both) get him now. If they had any sense, they'd get what they can now and start fresh.

Crazy. Snyder has made so many poor personnel decisions over the years. These people never learn that what they are doing is not working and to leave it to those that do

 

[Ricky Roma]

Kirk Cousins asked Dan Snyder for a trade and he wants to go to San Fran. I read the same story you have listed above. Sounds like an Al Davis type vendetta to me. Not a good idea to make things so personal. Their front office appears to have become more dysfunctional then even the 49ers was at its worst point

Guess he's taking it personally?

He isn't in a position to do this because the more important thing - the bigger picture - is what's best for his team? If this makes his TEAM worse, that affects him more than Cousins alone.

Even if he only gets our 3rd rounder (#2 in that round), that beats a 3rd round comp pick which is at the end of the round.

It sounds too stupid to be true, but Snyder's rep precedes him. The guy is literally screwing around with arguably his best/most important player....because of some childish vendetta? I know RGIII was a Snyder guy, and I guess he's taking it out on Cousins/Shanahan because in the end, they were right.

 

[poewelch84]

At this point Cousins doesn't want to resign with Washington anyway. So even if they force him to play this season he'll be gone next.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

With the Skins' FO botching the Kirk Cousins deal for the 3rd straight offseason, there is increasing media talk that Cousins will be a Niner...

ESPN.com’s Bill Barnwell wrote an excellent piece on the repercussions of Washington’s failures with Cousins and suggested this: trade Cousins now before you lose him for a 2019 compensatory third-round pick. One of Barnwell’s proposals involves the 49ers trading Brian Hoyer and a second-round pick to the Redskins for Cousins.

--My comment--Barnwell seems to have forgotten that trading KC now won’t get the Skins much value in return b/c the new team (49ers/Rams) can’t negotiation a LTD until February. There’s no guarantee that the new team would get to keep him beyond one year.


From the Sporting news:
Kirk Cousins sticks with Redskins' tag, set up for 49ers' gold
"Kirk Cousins is happy to earn his $23.94 million guaranteed playing under the Redskins' franchise tag again. The quarterback and team officials, as expected, failed to hammer out a long-term deal before Monday's 4 p.m. ET deadline for him to stay in Washington beyond the 2017 season.

That means Cousins, who would be ludicrously expensive to tag for a third straight offseason, will be a free agent in 2018. Well, sort of.

It just means the 49ers can start drawing up his new six-year contract anytime now.
…
It doesn't matter if Cousins doesn't play as well [in 2017] as he has the past two seasons. As long as he doesn't have a major injury in the Teddy Bridgewater vein, he will be a 49er."

 

[Niner Outlaw]

I am FAR from sold on Cousins, but it's not often a QB with his numbers hits FA. He already knows Shanny and the offense and guys like Garcon and Paulsen. It's a natural fit.

For those questioning his play, Look at these 5 Qbs over the last 2 seasons. One of them is Kirk Cousins.

2015
V –350 of 573 attempts, 61.1%, 3,987yds, 32TDs, 13INTs. Rating 91.1, QBR 46.3
W -319 of 469 attempts, 68.0%, 3,938yds, 21TDs, 16INTs. Rating 94.5, QBR 75.5
X - 379 of 543 attempts, 69.8%, 4,166yds, 29TDs, 11INTs. Rating 101.6, QBR 71
Y – 407 of 614 attempts, 66.3%, 4,591yds, 21TDs, 16INTs. Rating 89.0, QBR 67.2
Z – 398 of 592 attempts, 67.2%, 4,262yds, 32TDs, 13INTs. Rating 97.0, QBR 61.1

2016
V – 357 of 560 attempts, 63.8%, 3,937yds, 28TDs, 6INTs. Rating 96.7, QBR 62.1
W - 328 of 509 attempts, 64.4%, 3,819yds, 29TDs, 13INTs. Rating 95.4, QBR 66.3
X – 406 of 606 attempts, 67.0%, 4,917yds, 25TDs, 12INTs. Rating 97.2, QBR 71.7
Y – 373 of 534 attempts, 69.9%, 4,944yds, 38TDs, 7INTs. Rating 117.1, QBR 83.3
Z – 388 of 594 attempts, 65.3%, 4,327yds, 24TDs, 10INTs. Rating 93.3, QBR 70.5








and in case anyone is wondering:
V is Derek Carr
W is Ben Roethlisberger
X is Kirk Cousins
Y is Matt Ryan
Z is Matt Stafford

 

[deep9er]

http://www.************.com/commentary/1703-enough-kirk-cousins-let-years-roster-prove-itself/

Makes a lot of sense.


asterisks = ************

 

[deep9er]

Oh well, can't post.....asterisks is "49ers webzone" without the space. Anyway, this is the important part IMO:


Nobody can discount the numbers Cousins put up over the last two seasons. He's thrown for just over 9,000 yards, tossed 54 touchdowns, and completed 68.4-percent of his passes. These are jaw-dropping statistics, despite a 17-14-1 record. Additionally, Cousins' success has been in an offense developed by Jay Gruden and Sean McVay, not Kyle Shanahan.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Oh well, can't post.....asterisks is "49ers webzone" without the space. Anyway, this is the important part IMO:


Nobody can discount the numbers Cousins put up over the last two seasons. He's thrown for just over 9,000 yards, tossed 54 touchdowns, and completed 68.4-percent of his passes. These are jaw-dropping statistics, despite a 17-14-1 record. Additionally, Cousins' success has been in an offense developed by Jay Gruden and Sean McVay, not Kyle Shanahan.

"Kyle has played a major, major role in my development," Cousins said. "I learned a lot about football in the two seasons with him."

 

[Ricky Roma]

Nothing has changed much for myself in regards to Cousins. I'm still not overwhelmed by the idea of signing this guy to a massive deal, and would actually feel more comfortable in going with a draft pick. I'll also still say I'll defer to Shanahan given his apparent endorsement of Cousins based on his expertise on that side of the ball.

Although by most accounts, Cousins will be free to chose his destination next year....it's actually not true. Washington could apply the franchise tag again (highly unlikely) or the transitional tag (which allows Wash to match any offer sheet Cousins signs).

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Nothing has changed much for myself in regards to Cousins. I'm still not overwhelmed by the idea of signing this guy to a massive deal, and would actually feel more comfortable in going with a draft pick. I'll also still say I'll defer to Shanahan given his apparent endorsement of Cousins based on his expertise on that side of the ball.

Although by most accounts, Cousins will be free to chose his destination next year....it's actually not true. Washington could apply the franchise tag again (highly unlikely) or the transitional tag (which allows Wash to match any offer sheet Cousins signs).

I agree the franchise tag is unlikely, but you never know with Snider. His dislike for Shanny is well known, so he could tag the guy for another year just out of spite, even though it gives Cousins 34M and opens the door to free agency the following year (arguably--the CBA doesn't explicitly prohibit 3 tags). In case of the TT, a team like the Niners or Browns could easily craft an offer sheet that Washington won't/can't match.

Washington really botched this whole thing. They should've traded the guy in this offseason before the draft. At least then, they would've gotten decent value for him. Now, they're screwed.
--Skins won't meet his demands, and his demands will either stay the same or go up in 2018
--If they simply let him walk in FA after this season, they'll get a comp pick at the end of the 3rd rd (assuming they don't sign a corresponding high dollar FA).
--If they don't match another team's transition offer, the Skins get nothing, not even a comp pick.
--If they franchise tag him again, they're paying him 34M on a 1yr deal and he'll be gone the next year
--They won't be bad enough in 2017 to draft the great-looking 2018 Qb crop this year without paying a Griffin/Walker deal...again

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Just go after AJ McCarron. Much cheaper and in my opinion a quality up and coming QB with great leadership ability, accurate, stronger arm than most give him credit for and really high football IQ. Plus, he is a winner. Easier to mold into what the 49ers want.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Just go after AJ McCarron. Much cheaper and in my opinion a quality up and coming QB with great leadership ability, accurate, stronger arm than most give him credit for and really high football IQ. Plus, he is a winner. Easier to mold into what the 49ers want.

Cincy reportedly wanted a 1st rd pick for AJ this offseason and no one bit on that.

AJ will be a RFA after the season, and since the Bengals are likely to put a 1st rd tender on him, we'd have to trade away a high pick for him. Probably too high a price tag for someone so unproven.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Cincy reportedly wanted a 1st rd pick for AJ this offseason and no one bit on that.

AJ will be a RFA after the season, and since the Bengals are likely to put a 1st rd tender on him, we'd have to trade away a high pick for him. Probably too high a price tag for someone so unproven.

I bet they would have come down on that if it was SF due to how high they are drafting. 2nd rounder and a 4th probably would have got it done. They put the cost high because they don't want to just give up a guy who has the potential to be a franchise QB. As good as Dalton is, there is still a camp of Bengal fans hoping AJ is our next starting QB. I never said he would be cheap, but it is certainly better than the 2 -1st round picks Washington will require, or more for Cousins unless he walks free agency. Then you are looking at a top 3 contract in all of football to sign him. I am sure Cincy will negotiate down next year once they put the tag on him.