Kirk Cousins' QB Comparisons

[Caliskinsfan]

Very interesting info in this article from Mark Tyler over at HH

Kirk Cousins Equals Andy Dalton

Excerpt


Some have called Kirk Cousins no more than a game manager. Some have said he's a "placeholder" for the next quarterback to be drafted by the Redskins. A few have claimed we would have won two more games if Robert Griffin was the quarterback this season, simply because Cousins can't make plays, and they believed Griffin could.



Most however would agree that of the current quarterbacks on the Redskins roster, Cousins gives the team the best chance to win each week.



I view Cousins a bit differently. To me, he's an Andy Dalton type quarterback, with a better arm, less athleticism, and a bit more of a gun-slinger mentality.



So, if you agree in any capacity with my assessment, the question then becomes, can we win with Cousins, and is he the long-term answer at quarterback for this franchise?



To better answer this question, I have decided to take a look at other quarterbacks in the NFL(not only Dalton), and see where his "Potential" may reside.

 

[Sportster 72]

I have thought he was somewhat like Dalton myself.

 

[skinsdad62]

i dont think that is a bad comparison . and if we place good players around him it could work .

 

[Sharkinva]

So the real question becomes, will Kirk have improved enough by the end of this season to take QB off the table as a top priority going into next season?? If he can conmpare favorably to some of the others on that list, and cut down on the INTs ( which I think he will), he could be our medium term solution. A 3-5 year deal while we shore up the rest of the team and draft a QB to groom some where in the next two drafts.

 

[j_y19]

So the real question becomes, will Kirk have improved enough by the end of this season to take QB off the table as a top priority going into next season?? If he can conmpare favorably to some of the others on that list, and cut down on the INTs ( which I think he will), he could be our medium term solution. A 3-5 year deal while we shore up the rest of the team and draft a QB to groom some where in the next two drafts.

Maybe, but I bet if a good project falls to us in rounds 2-5, and he is rated as the bpa by SM, we take him. I just hope we don't feel the urge to reach for one.

 

[Sharkinva]

Maybe, but I bet if a good project falls to us in rounds 2-5, and he is rated as the bpa by SM, we take him. I just hope we don't feel the urge to reach for one.

Oh I agree. But I dont feel that there is a guy who will be available to us in the draft that can start at a high level in the next two seasons. So I feel that unless Kirk totally craps the sheets we need to resign him and I dont think he is going to sign a short term deal unless he really does poorly.

The article comparing him to the rest of the league points out what I have been hinting at for a while now. There are only 5-7 "Franchise" QBs in the league. Kirk has his issues, but he is right around what many would consider a capable starter in todays NFL. And we would be remiss to cut bait on him in hopes that we can land the magical franchise guy.

 

[j_y19]

Oh I agree. But I dont feel that there is a guy who will be available to us in the draft that can start at a high level in the next two seasons. So I feel that unless Kirk totally craps the sheets we need to resign him and I dont think he is going to sign a short term deal unless he really does poorly.

The article comparing him to the rest of the league points out what I have been hinting at for a while now. There are only 5-7 "Franchise" QBs in the league. Kirk has his issues, but he is right around what many would consider a capable starter in todays NFL. And we would be remiss to cut bait on him in hopes that we can land the magical franchise guy.

Completely agree.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Cousins and Dalton aren't the same type of QB tho. Cousins is more in that Stafford/Cutler mold, but I don't think he is as talented as they are. Dalton has made his mark being more of a game manager (until this year)/not making mistakes while that isn't Cousins style.

 

[Stymietee]

Oh I agree. But I dont feel that there is a guy who will be available to us in the draft that can start at a high level in the next two seasons. So I feel that unless Kirk totally craps the sheets we need to resign him and I dont think he is going to sign a short term deal unless he really does poorly.

The article comparing him to the rest of the league points out what I have been hinting at for a while now. There are only 5-7 "Franchise" QBs in the league. Kirk has his issues, but he is right around what many would consider a capable starter in todays NFL. And we would be remiss to cut bait on him in hopes that we can land the magical franchise guy.

Curious Shark, at what point in this season should Gruden truly begin testing him out? I'm thinking after the Patriots game (that would be against the Saints)

 

[Sharkinva]

Curious Shark, at what point in this season should Gruden truly begin testing him out? I'm thinking after the Patriots game (that would be against the Saints)

Sty... why does he need to "test him out"?? The point shouldnt be to figure out if he is able to carry the team, but to improve on what he does do well already so that he builds up to the point where he can do the carry the team type stuff. I would no more expect Gruden to start testing Kirk out for stuff that is outside his game, than I would expect the Chargers to start suddenly going read option heavy in their offense. Build confidence in your QB by having him do the things he does well and the rest ( the change of pace stuff) will eventually be there. Start forcing the concepts that he struggles with in critical situations and you risk damaging him beyond repair. We already got one of those on roster.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty... why does he need to "test him out"?? The point shouldnt be to figure out if he is able to carry the team, but to improve on what he does do well already so that he builds up to the point where he can do the carry the team type stuff. I would no more expect Gruden to start testing Kirk out for stuff that is outside his game, than I would expect the Chargers to start suddenly going read option heavy in their offense. Build confidence in your QB by having him do the things he does well and the rest ( the change of pace stuff) will eventually be there. Start forcing the concepts that he struggles with in critical situations and you risk damaging him beyond repair. We already got one of those on roster.

Ok you call it building him up, that's fine, let me rephrase using your vernacular. At what point do you believe that KC has had enough time to "improve on what he does do well already?" The entire year? Another? Part of this season, which part? I know that it's subjective, but that's just us shooting the shit!

BTW: Good to see what appears to be a concession on the mis-handling of the one that you refer to as "already got one of those on the roster!"

 

[Sharkinva]

Ok you call it building him up, that's fine, let me rephrase using your vernacular. At what point do you believe that KC has had enough time to "improve on what he does do well already?" The entire year? Another? Part of this season, which part? I know that it's subjective, but that's just us shooting the shit!

Well I think you need to clarify what you are expecting in this "testing out, let the big dawg out" phase you refer to. If what we are saying is, we should be taking more shots down field, currently Kirk has attempted about 10% of his passes this season as shots down field. Considering we are or atleast were building a run first ball control style of offense, I think we are about on task.

Also if you are hinting that we should be taking shots even if we have no trust or confidence in the WRs we are sending deep.. I ask to what point? The defense will only respect the potential IF both the QB can get it there AND the WR has a reasonable chance of hauling it in. Now i have no doubt Kirk can get it there, but Ross has not shown a consistent threat to burn teams. So why take shots just for the sake of taking them??

In short, you dont enter an F-150 into the Indy 500 any more than you take your Indy car and try to haul a double wide. I think if we are smart, we continue to build on what Kirk does well, and eventually he becomes a solid QB who can take a few more shots down field. SO I dont think there will or should be a cutting it loose period.

 

[Stymietee]

Well I think you need to clarify what you are expecting in this "testing out, let the big dawg out" phase you refer to. If what we are saying is, we should be taking more shots down field, currently Kirk has attempted about 10% of his passes this season as shots down field. Considering we are or atleast were building a run first ball control style of offense, I think we are about on task.

Also if you are hinting that we should be taking shots even if we have no trust or confidence in the WRs we are sending deep.. I ask to what point? The defense will only respect the potential IF both the QB can get it there AND the WR has a reasonable chance of hauling it in. Now i have no doubt Kirk can get it there, but Ross has not shown a consistent threat to burn teams. So why take shots just for the sake of taking them??

In short, you dont enter an F-150 into the Indy 500 any more than you take your Indy car and try to haul a double wide. I think if we are smart, we continue to build on what Kirk does well, and eventually he becomes a solid QB who can take a few more shots down field. SO I dont think there will or should be a cutting it loose period.

Got it.......thanks, anyway!

 

[Breed]

but Ross has not shown a consistent threat to burn teams. So why take shots just for the sake of taking them??

He'll never show himself to be that type of threat if he never gets the chance.

I think if we are smart, we continue to build on what Kirk does well

I thought he showed last year that he was a better than decent deep ball passer. It seems its the play calling that isn't allowing him to show it this year.

 

[Sharkinva]

He'll never show himself to be that type of threat if he never gets the chance.



I thought he showed last year that he was a better than decent deep ball passer. It seems its the play calling that isn't allowing him to show it this year.

Until Coaches trust him to take advantage of those chances, they are not going to consistently put him in the position. And yes Kirk is very good at throwing the deep ball. What people are missing is that this isnt a case of the coaches not trusting the QB. Its them not trusting the WR. We see that Kirk is very good at throwing to a spot when the play calls for the ball to go to a particular spot. We also see that because of this, if the WR isnt there when the ball gets there, more often than not it results in a very bad play.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

While I agree Cousins and Daulton are different types of players I have used the comparison before because I think that is the level Kirk can top out at. Not sure who it was but I was discussing Daulton with a poster who considered him a lost cause. Not me. Geno Smith is a lost cause. Guys like Daulton and Stafford are a different breed. They are guys just good enough to hang on to the job for a long time and just bad enough to get you beat in the end. And that is why I don't want to take this route long term with Kirk.

 

[Sharkinva]

While I agree Cousins and Daulton are different types of players I have used the comparison before because I think that is the level Kirk can top out at. Not sure who it was but I was discussing Daulton with a poster who considered him a lost cause. Not me. Geno Smith is a lost cause. Guys like Daulton and Stafford are a different breed. They are guys just good enough to hang on to the job for a long time and just bad enough to get you beat in the end. And that is why I don't want to take this route long term with Kirk.

Or you could consider that guys like Dalton and Cousins are just good enough to keep the team from making dumb desperate moves to chase after the golden franchise QB long enough to build a complete team. Because lets be real, if Kirk fails the majority of skins fans will be split along two lines at the end of the season. One side will say its a good thing we picked up Voldemorts option and maybe we can finally get a good coach in to work with him. because make no mistake if Kirk fails and we are a 4-12 team again Gruden gets fired.

The other side will be the ones admitting that NONE of the QBs we had this year were worth a crap, but will also go into Snyder mode and scream that we need to do what ever it takes to draft Goff/Cook or some other QB.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Or you could consider that guys like Dalton and Cousins are just good enough to keep the team from making dumb desperate moves to chase after the golden franchise QB long enough to build a complete team. Because lets be real, if Kirk fails the majority of skins fans will be split along two lines at the end of the season. One side will say its a good thing we picked up Voldemorts option and maybe we can finally get a good coach in to work with him. because make no mistake if Kirk fails and we are a 4-12 team again Gruden gets fired.

The other side will be the ones admitting that NONE of the QBs we had this year were worth a crap, but will also go into Snyder mode and scream that we need to do what ever it takes to draft Goff/Cook or some other QB.

Again my point is Cincinnati has had a complete team for years. A good argument could be made that the other 52 on their roster has been better than every other AFC team, been that way for a while now. And every January they go home early. Every year. Their points scored in the playoff games with Daulton: 10, 13, 10 and 10.

With that said, and since we aren't close to the Bengals in terms of overall roster, I'm fine keeping Kirk for another few years. I'm just not counting on him to be the long term solution.

 

[Sharkinva]

Again my point is Cincinnati has had a complete team for years. A good argument could be made that the other 52 on their roster has been better than every other AFC team, been that way for a while now. And every January they go home early. Every year. Their points scored in the playoff games with Daulton: 10, 13, 10 and 10.

With that said, and since we aren't close to the Bengals in terms of overall roster, I'm fine keeping Kirk for another few years. I'm just not counting on him to be the long term solution.

Check your facts boss. Before Dalton, the Bengals were a 4-7 win team more often than not. You can gig him for lack of play offs wins. But at least he does enough to get them there.

And I get that you are not counting on him being the long term solution. My quirk is, I hear/read alot of veiled comments that basically are hoping he fails or that he doesnt develop into the long term solution.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Check your facts boss. Before Dalton, the Bengals were a 4-7 win team more often than not. You can gig him for lack of play offs wins. But at least he does enough to get them there.

And I get that you are not counting on him being the long term solution. My quirk is, I hear/read alot of veiled comments that basically are hoping he fails or that he doesnt develop into the long term solution.

And before Dauton they were not a complete team. Is there really an argument that they've been a pretty complete team the last few years? How'd that work out for them?