Kiper/McShay combined Mock

[jarntt]

Thing is .... he has one move..... Speed rush. That's not going to get him far against NFL tackles.

He''s going to have to be taught .....

Not a guy I would risk our 1st round pick on. We need solid day one starters...... not hopes and potential in the 1st

I read that online the other day too and think it is Completely wrong. He has the main thing Marinelli looks for in his DL. The ability to be disruptive and penetrate

 

[tw1st3d]

I read that online the other day too and think it is Completely wrong. He has the main thing Marinelli looks for in his DL. The ability to be disruptive and penetrate

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he a 3-4 OLBer in college? and only 2 years at the position.

we would be converting a linebacker to a D-lineman...... That alone makes him somewhat of a project.

Sorry I don't see it at 16.... 2nd round still not in this draft. Not for this team... A different team that wasn't the worst defense in football sure take the risk. Just not us

and damn sure not a trade up for a guy like that .... That said as far as I think he falls is 15 to the Steelers who actually play a 3-4

and I actually hope he is there at 16 .... would be the exact kind of trade bait we need

 

[tw1st3d]

Was thinking I may find something to change my opinion. So went looking around on some articles about him.

He is the weakest of the top pass rushers in the draft. Only getting 15 reps on the bench. That's Wr type strength.

I'd trade down and take Shazier .... who is actually faster 4.38 40 but did 25 reps ......... He will be there late in the 1st ... because simple Shazier is only 6'1 237lbs and teams will worry about his size ( As they do with Donald)

 

[tw1st3d]

Barr vs. Top Pass-Rushers at the Combine
Height, Weight 40 Time Bench 3-Cone
Anthony Barr (UCLA) 6'5", 255 4.66 15 6.82
Khalil Mack (Buffalo) 6'3", 251 4.65 23 7.08
Jadeveon Clowney (S. Carolina) 6'6", 266 4.53 21 7.27
Ryan Shazier (Ohio State) 6'1", 237 4.38* 25 6.91
Dee Ford (Auburn)* 6'2", 252 4.59 29 7.07
NFL.com ( * indicates Pro Day)


Think you might want to rethink putting him on the strong side as a linebacker.

 

[tomodach10]

I also don't want to take a chance on a project at16 like Barr. We can't experiment with picks this year.

 

[jarntt]

I've never been one to put stock in the underwear Olympics of the combine. The most important thing that goes on there is the interviews. I'd rather see production in games. If he comes here and we make him a FT DE we'll put weight on him. Many College systems and Pro systems are different, so the position change thing doesn't really concern me in this case either. I absolutely love the kid and hope he falls to us but doubt he will. To me, I really don't care if you guys agree or not because I really don't know if he will be a great Pro and neither does even the best talent evaluator. Only time will tell, but I can only imagine what Marinelli can do with this kids raw ability. We need to find some more guys to get after the QB or our DBs are in for another long year

 

[jarntt]

I also don't want to take a chance on a project at16 like Barr. We can't experiment with picks this year.

This is the thing I don't understand. Why do you consider him a Project?

 

[tomodach10]

This is the thing I don't understand. Why do you consider him a Project?

He has only been a linebacker for 2 years, and he has never played 4-3 DE. He would have to beef up. He may well succeed, but give me Donald or Dix if available.

 

[tw1st3d]

This is the thing I don't understand. Why do you consider him a Project?

because he is a project man....... Same as Wilcox but actually more of a project

he wen from Rb .... to OLBer ( played the spot for 2 years only) and now you want to switch his spot a 3rd time in 3 years .....

How do you not think he is a project? Forget the size and strength ... You are talking his 3rd position in 3 years....


If that isn't project I don't know what is considered one.

 

[Manster7588]

Barr wouldn't be my 1st choice but I'd have no issues taking him at 16. Yes he's light for a DE but he can carry more weight.

 

[tw1st3d]

Barr wouldn't be my 1st choice but I'd have no issues taking him at 16. Yes he's light for a DE but he can carry more weight.

How much strength do you expect him to gain in one offseason?

If all he has is speed .... and no he has no other moves.... no bull rush no spin no nothing ... just speed..... How effective do you think he will be against the better LTs in the league his first year?


If we needed him 2-3 years from now sure ....... but that's not going to cut it THIS year.......

Not to mention every coaching job on this team is on the line .......


Fine project for a team like Seattle or Denver ...... Not for the Cowboys

 

[Manster7588]

How much strength do you expect him to gain in one offseason?

If all he has is speed .... and no he has no other moves.... no bull rush no spin no nothing ... just speed..... How effective do you think he will be against the better LTs in the league his first year?


If we needed him 2-3 years from now sure ....... but that's not going to cut it THIS year.......

Not to mention every coaching job on this team is on the line .......


Fine project for a team like Seattle or Denver ...... Not for the Cowboys

I freely admit he's a project. I already said he's not my first choice but dskn can he get to the QB quickly. If he can add 15 or 20 lbs and maintain the quickness he'll be a beast as a 4-3 DE, if he says at 255 then he's better off in a 3-4 defense.

Now before I'm asked why I'm OK with Barr and not Donald it's because Barr can gain weight while Donald won't get any taller.

 

[jarntt]

I think You are going to change your mind on Donald real quick if we Get him. I think there is just too much over thinking going on. Great players will make plays no matter where you put them and we have a guy known for getting the most out of his players that will be working with both of them.

I wish we were picking at 14 because I think one of my top 4 would almost have to be there a couple of picks earlier. Luckily for me I see another 10 guys I'd still love to take.

 

[tw1st3d]

I freely admit he's a project. I already said he's not my first choice but dskn can he get to the QB quickly. If he can add 15 or 20 lbs and maintain the quickness he'll be a beast as a 4-3 DE, if he says at 255 then he's better off in a 3-4 defense.

Now before I'm asked why I'm OK with Barr and not Donald it's because Barr can gain weight while Donald won't get any taller.

problem with both your statements .... at best we add 7lbs to Barr in one offseason. Very likely he wont be comfortable at that playing weight and will be sluggish ...... which does what? effects his speed.... the best thing about him. Making him for atleast one year .... not very fucking effective.

And the killer is ... If jerry takes him in the 1st he is expected to start .... and he will get left out there no matter how bad or ineffective

Not a chance I want to take.

Donald is only an inch shorter than Glover and I doubt you had issues with Glover when he was in Dallas .... Donald plays one position .... He's not learning something new ... he's only going to get better at it

So I don't get your reasoning

 

[tw1st3d]

Luckily for me I see another 10 guys I'd still love to take.

See we are kinda thinking alike ... atleast on that

That's why I don't take a risk, if, maybe, could be, guy...... Too many guys there

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

This is kind of why I was leaning toward OT when I posted it the other day. There seems to be a lot of Dlinemen that can play in this draft.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Seems to me everytime we draft an athletic player & then put him in a position he doesn't play. We get burned. When we drafted a stanbach or Dantler or whoever. Seems we were doing it every year for awhile. Why we draft this guy.... because he is one of the best athletes in the draft. Well they simply never meet expectations. So I have to agree with with Twist on this one. Don't need a 1st round project IMO. there is a lot of technique to a pass rushing DE. So he may become a quality DE 3 or so years down the road, but as Jerry & most GMs say. You are drafting a 1st rounder to make an immediate impact. So unless they plan on him playing LB for us, I would just go a different direction.

 

[Manster7588]

problem with both your statements .... at best we add 7lbs to Barr in one offseason. Very likely he wont be comfortable at that playing weight and will be sluggish ...... which does what? effects his speed.... the best thing about him. Making him for atleast one year .... not very fucking effective.

And the killer is ... If jerry takes him in the 1st he is expected to start .... and he will get left out there no matter how bad or ineffective

Not a chance I want to take.

Donald is only an inch shorter than Glover and I doubt you had issues with Glover when he was in Dallas .... Donald plays one position .... He's not learning something new ... he's only going to get better at it

So I don't get your reasoning

When I say 15 to 20 lbs I mean over a couple of seasons. Not 3 months. The s for the comparison to Glover, just because one man played good that you short doesn't mean Donald will. I understand some outside of desired size can be pro bowlers but scouts look at desired sizes for a reason.

 

[jarntt]

See we are kinda thinking alike ... atleast on that

That's why I don't take a risk, if, maybe, could be, guy...... Too many guys there

Every player has "risk" and most players change schemes when moving to the NFL. Plus, a lot of guys that come out may only really have started a year in College. Where I disagree is I see Barr as one of the safer players in the whole draft that may be available. There is a good chance that whomever we pick may not start at the beginning of the year if it is a DL. Our defense is all about rotation and getting in that rotation. Even Ware would have played less on first and second down if we had more depth.

 

[jarntt]

problem with both your statements .... at best we add 7lbs to Barr in one offseason. Very likely he wont be comfortable at that playing weight and will be sluggish ...... which does what? effects his speed.... the best thing about him. Making him for atleast one year .... not very fucking effective.

And the killer is ... If jerry takes him in the 1st he is expected to start .... and he will get left out there no matter how bad or ineffective

Not a chance I want to take.

Donald is only an inch shorter than Glover and I doubt you had issues with Glover when he was in Dallas .... Donald plays one position .... He's not learning something new ... he's only going to get better at it

So I don't get your reasoning

Every player is different, but I don't see 7lbs making Barr sluggish, lose his speed or make him not effective at all. Even if he doesn't gain weight I see him as a huge asset to our defense next year. I think you are making assumptions about him the way Manster is about Donald. Every player has what can be perceived as flaws.