Keim - Redskins & Griffin reach critical point

[Caliskinsfan]

I don't know about y'all, but I am fatigued beyond all measure at this ongoing QB fiasco. Sadly, it's likely to get a bit worse before it gets better.

The optimistic view is it will get better with SM On board

The cynical view is same old skins, and nothing can overcome the dysfunction of Danny Boy at the helm of this franchise.

We all have a choice on how to approach this season.

I'm going with low expectations of whatever QB we run with and a focus on how the OTHER 52 players who are on our roster are going to help the TEAM improve as a whole down the road... I call it 'survival' mode

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Here's Keims excellent article...that sums things up quite well IMO



Yes, it’s a huge week for Robert Griffin III. If this is the regular-season dress rehearsal coming up, and if the Redskins stick to using no starters in the final preseason game, then Griffin has to prove that last week was an aberration. The problem is, part of the issues stem from areas that he hasn’t done well in the past. This isn't about two preseason games; it's about two years ... plus these games.

Anyway, here are some thoughts on the situation:

• Griffin needs to play well at Baltimore on Saturday to build some confidence that he can get it done. The Redskins seem intent on starting him this season, but naming someone the starter doesn’t automatically give everyone confidence in that person. That part must be earned; the way to do it is by responding to a horrific game with a good one. You don't want to panic; but you must lay out reality and know what sort of outing is needed.
  
  
• One thought from the multiple NFL people I communicated with over the weekend (scouts, executives, former executives and players) was unanimous: Quarterbacks do not improve their pocket presence and you can't win if they don't have any. And when you’re in your fourth training camp and still struggle in this area? Not good. It’s not going to change and if we’re seeing it – or other football people around the league are seeing it -- you can bank on it that the Redskins see it as well. Without it, there will be problems, and he'll take unnecessary hits. That's the most troubling part -- there are times he'll get hit regardless, like any quarterback. But Griffin still isn't doing enough to protect himself and to avoid further punishment.
  
  
• The Redskins were genuinely encouraged by some early signs -- I saw and heard the positives. But it can be difficult to get a good read on pocket presence in practice. You’re in shorts and the rushers pull up. In games, it’s a different speed and flaws are magnified. The Lions game exposed some of those flaws -- the line contributed, no doubt, but no quarterback ever has a clean pocket all game. You need to learn how to operate when there is mayhem. Pro golfers are great because they can escape trouble under pressure that even scratch golfers could not. The same is true of great quarterbacks; subtle steps and slides in the pocket buy enough time to complete throws when protection breaks down. Griffin plays courageously, we’ve all seen that. But he must show a level of consistency as a passer.
  
  
• When Griffin runs in practice, there’s a bigger cheer from the crowd. Saw this on two occasions Sunday and I get it: They want that old dynamic player back. But, at this point, the cheering should be reserved for the 20-yard pass into a tight window. That’s something worth getting excited about; it would show growth in his game. At this point, the running often reveals what he’s not doing. The coaches would be thrilled to see the throw, especially if he moves up in the pocket or slides a certain way before unloading the ball.
  
  
• I said this last week and will say it again: A quarterback with poor pocket presence playing behind a line with two new starters on the right side is a recipe for disaster. There will be games the line breaks down; what happens then? You will get hit, but you can still make plays. There will be games this might work based on the style of the opposing defense -- some enable the Redskins to incorporate Griffin’s legs more into the game plan. Or if the run game is excelling, as it should some weeks, they can manipulate the defense better and create favorable situations. That's the hope. With receiver DeSean Jackson, the big downfield play is always one pass away. The question isn’t whether or not this can work for one week, it’s about doing it for 16 -- and winning.
  
  
• The problem vs. Detroit in addition to bad down-and-distance situations, was facing a team whose ends align a little wider. If you’re not running well -- the first offense did not -- then it’s hard to run bootlegs vs. a team in this situation. To be a consistent quarterback, you have to handle multiple assignments and patterns. At this point, Griffin might look good or passable one game and bad the next. This isn’t about conspiracy theories, and it’s not just because of the line (contributing factor, absolutely). When you’re in your fourth season and the past two went poorly, the blame is assigned to one place. Yes, other issues exist. But they do for other quarterbacks as well.
  
  
  
• The talk of play-calls or if coach Jay Gruden is somehow making it personal misses the point. If there is some mandate to start Griffin and stick with him, then it’s on Gruden and the offensive staff to make it work.
  
  
• This isn’t about personality or popularity. It’s about performance. If you want to keep the job, you have to consistently play at a certain level, or at least exhibit signs of getting to that point. If it’s true for 52 others, it should be true for all. We’re past the point of the investment and “needing to see”. We’re at the point where you have to go by what you see.
  

 

[deanpet21]

Gotta love the 2nd bullet in that article. Ive been saying it all along. He has no pocket presence. If he fails again on Saturday night will this organization finally wake up and make a change?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yep the 2nd paragraph is all we need to discuss. I have been asking that question for 2 years, is pocket presence something you can learn or is it something you are born with. If it's true that you can not develop it then there is no use going down this road any longer. I firmly believe if he stinks up the joint in the opener he will get the first half of game 2, then Gruden will have no choice.

 

[deanpet21]

what if he stinks it up in the 1st half of the Ravens game? Why wait until the opener. The Dolphins dline is nasty with two pro bowlers. We need someone who knows how to slide out of pressure and that is not RG3.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I have to disagree at least to a point on bullet #2.

I've seen several QBs who were not good pocket QBs early on that became much better at it.

Randal Cunningham and the infamous Michael Vick...Cunningham in MIN was far better in the pocket than Cunningham in PHI...and the same for Vick. Steve McNair was never really a speed demon, but he ran a lot more early than he did late. And of course the one everyone hears...Steve Young

The thing with RG3...the David Carr syndrome might have taken effect already...RG3 has been hit hard a lot...after so many flush hit...scarred for life.

 

[deanpet21]

Vick was never a pocket passer. Cunningham became a pocket passer b/c of his age but he was bigger, more accurate, and had a better arm than RG3. People forget that Rg3 is not accurate. His claim to fame is his athletic ability like a Vick. You take that away that you have a below average QB.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I disagree about Griffin and accuracy. However if you want to define accuracy only when under pocket pressure, I'll concede he hasn't shown much.

Course then we have Cousins who, when under pressure accurately throws to the wrong color shirt.

 

[deanpet21]

lol. you think Rg3 is an accurate QB? I haven't seen it. Really looking forward to Saturday night. Rg3 starting job should be on the line but not its probably not.

 

[j_y19]

lol. you think Rg3 is an accurate QB? I haven't seen it. Really looking forward to Saturday night. Rg3 starting job should be on the line but not its probably not.

Really? Look at his college completion rates or his stats for 2012. Throwing the ball accurately is not one of his issues. Throwing the ball on time is.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Really? Look at his college completion rates or his stats for 2012. Throwing the ball accurately is not one of his issues. Throwing the ball on time is.

Yep.

 

[deanpet21]

2012 was a read option offense. I meant as a drop back passer.

 

[skinsdad62]

2012 was a read option offense. I meant as a drop back passer.

the read option is a play , the pistol is a formation , the offense we used was the WCO . and the read option was used about 120 plays in 1000 ran as i have shown so many times

 

[Breed]

the read option is a play , the pistol is a formation , the offense we used was the WCO . and the read option was used about 120 plays in 1000 ran as i have shown so many times

Really. Interesting. Whatever was ran in 2012 I thought suited Griffin fine. I think one of the big mistakes Shanny and just about everyone with FO juice made when Griff started talking that I wanna be Peyton Manning nonsense. Was not telling him to be himself and simply protect himself better. That (refusing to protect himself) is what may just be his ultimate undoing.

 

[Stymietee]

Really. Interesting. Whatever was ran in 2012 I thought suited Griffin fine. I think one of the big mistakes Shanny and just about everyone with FO juice made when Griff started talking that I wanna be Peyton Manning nonsense. Was not telling him to be himself and simply protect himself better. That (refusing to protect himself) is what may just be his ultimate undoing.

Actually, the mistake was based in ineptitude. Griffin came into a clusterfuk of an organization aimlessly taking stabs at this quick fix or the other. There was no one specifically in charge of football operations with the skills or gravitas necessary to say no to what was going on. Griffin like all who preceded him became another in a long line of plug and play assets that excited the organization and a starving fan base. Unfortunately, there was no team to speak of, in place to support the new shiny acquisition in his early years and definitely no professional functioning organizational talent wise enough to realize that return on such an investment required time, patience and training.

Mike Shanahan, to his credit devised a system that while successful came at a high cost. A temporary fix that, if, to be repeated the following season required full and painful cooperation from the Dan Snyder created diva. In truth, Griffin's reluctance should have been an obvious clue to go in a different direction, but who was going to tell Shanahan that his type of players on the offensive front lines was outdated? Who was going to say to the diva and his number one fan (DS) that specific....extensive training was required to change this raw talent into a much more refined and polished professional product?

So, here we are 4 seasons removed from his first one, just now beginning the process ignored in season one. The cost in painful injury and possibly psychological damage cannot be measured with any assurance and for what it's worth, the hiring of SM and a well established QB coach may have come too late to correct Griffin's physical acumem or knee jerk public utterances. Who knows the future of this organization especially in light of its' ownerships petulant wherewithal?, but if the past offers any clues, the grand SM experiment could be as fleeting as was once, the promising career of our current starting QB.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I don't know about y'all, but I am fatigued beyond all measure at this ongoing QB fiasco. Sadly, it's likely to get a bit worse before it gets better.

The optimistic view is it will get better with SM On board

The cynical view is same old skins, and nothing can overcome the dysfunction of Danny Boy at the helm of this franchise.

We all have a choice on how to approach this season.

I'm going with low expectations of whatever QB we run with and a focus on how the OTHER 52 players who are on our roster are going to help the TEAM improve as a whole down the road... I call it 'survival' mode

Actually - as I have stated before - my view is not that SM will fix the QB situation - that is a crapshoot at this time (w/ either QB) & I am prepared for the worst in this situation. Rather - I expect SM to fix the overall culture & at least strengthen most other areas on this team over the next few seasons.

If that is all that occurs then at a minimum this team can then focus on getting another solid - if not spectacular - QB with then end result being a very competitive team. No pt in going back in time & arguing what they should have done - that ship has sailed. Also - anyone stating that a move to Cousins is a guarantee for success is either delusional or a liar. I am not stating that it can't happen, but it is a gamble at best.

Any sustained, solid QB play by a QB currently on the roster is a bonus but certainly one that I would be thrilled to witness. HTTR

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

2012 was a read option offense. I meant as a drop back passer.

But that's not what you said. You said Robert Griffin is not an accurate passer and that is simply not the case. It's been what I've been hanging my hat on since they drafted him, he simply throws the ball much better than Michael Vick did.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Really. Interesting. Whatever was ran in 2012 I thought suited Griffin fine. I think one of the big mistakes Shanny and just about everyone with FO juice made when Griff started talking that I wanna be Peyton Manning nonsense. Was not telling him to be himself and simply protect himself better. That (refusing to protect himself) is what may just be his ultimate undoing.

By every account that is exactly what Shanny did. Griffin even acknowledged it a number of times. The problem from that point forward is the QB, enabled by the owner and that was the key, wasn't about to listen to the coach when he tried to get the most out of him. Griffin insisted on trying to be Peyton Manning even when Shanny knew better and the results are obvious.

Now Shanny is having the last laugh. He can look at the guy who got him fired and can say "The only time you were worth a shit in the NFL is when you did it our way".

 

[Stymietee]

By every account that is exactly what Shanny did. Griffin even acknowledged it a number of times. The problem from that point forward is the QB, enabled by the owner and that was the key, wasn't about to listen to the coach when he tried to get the most out of him. Griffin insisted on trying to be Peyton Manning even when Shanny knew better and the results are obvious.

Now Shanny is having the last laugh. He can look at the guy who got him fired and can say "The only time you were worth a shit in the NFL is when you did it our way".

Let's face it, nearly all professional players want a long and successful careers, so the natural and correct response to such a statement by Shanahan would be, "At what cost coach, being able to walk and not remeber my name because you were too afraid to insist on my proper development?"

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Actually - as I have stated before - my view is not that SM will fix the QB situation - that is a crapshoot at this time (w/ either QB) & I am prepared for the worst in this situation. Rather - I expect SM to fix the overall culture & at least strengthen most other areas on this team over the next few seasons.

If that is all that occurs then at a minimum this team can then focus on getting another solid - if not spectacular - QB with then end result being a very competitive team. No pt in going back in time & arguing what they should have done - that ship has sailed. Also - anyone stating that a move to Cousins is a guarantee for success is either delusional or a liar. I am not stating that it can't happen, but it is a gamble at best.

Any sustained, solid QB play by a QB currently on the roster is a bonus but certainly one that I would be thrilled to witness. HTTR

I expect and hope that if SM proceeds with the approach of competition, drafting solid football players and 'team over individual', our culture will inevitably trend towards a professional franchise.

The QB fiasco is just one manifestation of a dysfunctional culture issue to me.

One troubling thing I see for the 'other 52' is a lack of consistency with the stated goal of competition at all levels. I have no problem with SM taking SOME of this season to validate whether Griffin Can be the guy, but this franchise and the rest of the players need decisive decisions and sooner rather than later in the season about the position.

In essence, I think we are both coming from the same viewpoint in regards to our hopes for SM and the team.