Keeping the window open!

[TobyTyler]

Ian Williams, Bruce Miller, Kyle Williams, Cam Johnson, Daniel Kilgore, and Demarcus Dobbs come to mind. This isn't exactly a team that's primed for undrafted or late-round picks to make an impact given the overall talent level, but he's done a much better job than the previous regime of finding and developing (granted much of this may be the coaching staff) late-round picks and UDFA.

Huh? Didn't they just dump him for a 7th rounder? I will agree that Baalke has done a better job than the previous regime, but who hasn't? He's done better picking guys that were known entities I think though rather than the "diamond in the rough" guys. That was the point I was getting at.

 

[TobyTyler]

Then you've got guys like Bowman, Boone, and Brooks who were backups or retreads who he showed faith in and have become impact players. Baalke didn't add all those guys, but he made moves that put them in position to start and have success, often in the face of considerable criticism and doubt.

C'mon, even I knew about those guys in college and I think I heard that Singletary basically had to physically threaten Baalke into taking Bowman. Boone and Brooks are OK but Bowman is superb. If you consider Bowman a "diamond in the rough", then I agree with you, he made a great pick there.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Huh? Didn't they just dump him for a 7th rounder? I will agree that Baalke has done a better job than the previous regime, but who hasn't? He's done better picking guys that were known entities I think though rather than the "diamond in the rough" guys. That was the point I was getting at.

Johnson was a 7th round pick who made the roster of a team with two all-pro OLBs and a third-round pick at the position. He's a successful draft pick even if he is no longer on the team.

We have an incredibly deep and talented team. It's hard to people in the rough to stick. But Baalke has found several.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

C'mon, even I knew about those guys in college and I think I heard that Singletary basically had to physically threaten Baalke into taking Bowman. Boone and Brooks are OK but Bowman is superb. If you consider Bowman a "diamond in the rough", then I agree with you, he made a great pick there.

Nope. Those two guys are very good players. Boone was one of the more effective guards in the league last year, and Brooks is one of the most well-rounded OLBs. Bowman is elite, but the other two are right up there as well. If Bowman is your standard, except that he was drafted too high, how many teams have found diamonds in the rough lately?

 

[TobyTyler]

Nope. Those two guys are very good players. Boone was one of the more effective guards in the league last year, and Brooks is one of the most well-rounded OLBs. Bowman is elite, but the other two are right up there as well. If Bowman is your standard, except that he was drafted too high, how many teams have found diamonds in the rough lately?

They are decent players but hardly diamonds in the rough. Both were extremely highly thought of college players.

A diamond in the rough is Tom Brady or Natrone Means or Christian Okoye or Victor Cruz, Wes Welker, Russell Wilson, Terrel Owens. Guys like that

 

[Flyingiguana]

Then you've got guys like Bowman, Boone, and Brooks who were backups or retreads who he showed faith in and have become impact players. Baalke didn't add all those guys, but he made moves that put them in position to start and have success, often in the face of considerable criticism and doubt.

bowman was a 3rd round steal

 

[Flyingiguana]

C'mon, even I knew about those guys in college and I think I heard that Singletary basically had to physically threaten Baalke into taking Bowman. Boone and Brooks are OK but Bowman is superb. If you consider Bowman a "diamond in the rough", then I agree with you, he made a great pick there.

that was mays...

 

[luckyluke22]

They are decent players but hardly diamonds in the rough. Both were extremely highly thought of college players.

A diamond in the rough is Tom Brady or Natrone Means or Christian Okoye or Victor Cruz, Wes Welker, Russell Wilson, Terrel Owens. Guys like that

So over a fifteen year span you can name a handful. None drafted from the same regime. And Baalke has been in charge how many years?

I like how in another thread you state most of your posts are positive. Whoever taught you statistics didn't do you justice.

If you look at Baalke without a jaded lense, you'll see he's been pretty stellar. I think he has a GM of the Year award on his mantle, do you?

 

[Flyingiguana]

So over a fifteen year span you can name a handful. None drafted from the same regime. And Baalke has been in charge how many years?

I like how in another thread you state most of your posts are positive. Whoever taught you statistics didn't do you justice.

If you look at Baalke without a jaded lense, you'll see he's been pretty stellar. I think he has a GM of the Year award on his mantle, do you?

2 excellent drafts and one stinker. and 2013 is looking like another excellent one if lattimore and tank can recover.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

that was mays...

 

[Crimsoncrew]

They are decent players but hardly diamonds in the rough. Both were extremely highly thought of college players.

A diamond in the rough is Tom Brady or Natrone Means or Christian Okoye or Victor Cruz, Wes Welker, Russell Wilson, Terrel Owens. Guys like that

Oh, ok. I think I'm starting to get it. Alex Boone, an UDFA, isn't a diamond in the rough because at one point in his college career he was highly regarded. He's nothing like Tom Brady or Russell Wilson, virtual unknowns in college. And Bowman was clearly taken far too high at the 91st pick to qualify as a diamond in the rough. Not at all like TO, taken with the 89th pick, or Wilson, taken with the 75th. Or for that matter, Christian Okoye, who lasted all the way to pick 35. That Natrone Means guy (who, incidentally, had a fairly mediocre career) was even worse, plummeting all the way to 41. Now those guys were real late-round gems.

Seriously, do you even think before you post?

 

[Hangman]

If you look at how the 49ers have been drafting they have done 4 things:

1) Draft projects who have a ton of athleticism but are projects (AJ Jenkins, Boone, Okoye, Mays, Cam Johnson, Kaepernick, Cooper) or know to be good football players in college and then move them to a new position. (Bruce Miller DE, Bowman OLB, Culliver FS, McDonald, WR Moody, Boone OT)

2) Draft players who were studs in college but got injured or are deemed injury prone 2012 was full of this (Aldon Smith, Looney, Fleming, Trent Robinson, Lattimore, Tank Carradine, BJ Daniels)

3) Draft players who underperformed in their last year due to reasons that can be fixed (Aldon Smith injury, Reid trying to cover for weak secondary, Lemonier only good player on a bad team)

4) Draft players who can play multiple positions. This is mainly both OL and DL, but TE, WR and RB too

 

[Flyingiguana]

??

 

[TobyTyler]

that was mays...

No, Bowman was Singletary's guy I'm sure of it, as was Willis.

 

[TobyTyler]

So over a fifteen year span you can name a handful. None drafted from the same regime. And Baalke has been in charge how many years?

I like how in another thread you state most of your posts are positive. Whoever taught you statistics didn't do you justice.

If you look at Baalke without a jaded lense, you'll see he's been pretty stellar. I think he has a GM of the Year award on his mantle, do you?

I guess you and I just have a different opinion of what constitutes a "Diamond". Diamonds are rare and don't come along often. I point out that Baalke has not yet found any because they are so rare. I don't want Baalke to be falsely glorified. He's done a decent job and has helped build an excellent team but nothing really special in finding hidden gems in the draft.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

No, Bowman was Singletary's guy I'm sure of it, as was Willis.

Willis definitely wasn't Singletary's guy. Singletary was lukewarm on Willis at the senior bowl.

 

[TobyTyler]

Oh, ok. I think I'm starting to get it. Alex Boone, an UDFA, isn't a diamond in the rough because at one point in his college career he was highly regarded. He's nothing like Tom Brady or Russell Wilson, virtual unknowns in college. And Bowman was clearly taken far too high at the 91st pick to qualify as a diamond in the rough. Not at all like TO, taken with the 89th pick, or Wilson, taken with the 75th. Or for that matter, Christian Okoye, who lasted all the way to pick 35. That Natrone Means guy (who, incidentally, had a fairly mediocre career) was even worse, plummeting all the way to 41. Now those guys were real late-round gems.

Seriously, do you even think before you post?

Yes. You are starting to get it. Bowman and Boone are not "diamonds in the rough". For Boone, he is not good enough to be a "diamond" and for Bowman, he was expected to be very good so he's not a hidden gem either.

 

[whysies]

Who expected Bowman to be very good (besides maybe the 49ers and Cowboys)? You and the experts?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I guess you and I just have a different opinion of what constitutes a "Diamond". Diamonds are rare and don't come along often. I point out that Baalke has not yet found any because they are so rare. I don't want Baalke to be falsely glorified. He's done a decent job and has helped build an excellent team but nothing really special in finding hidden gems in the draft.

And I guess you and I just have different opinions about what constitutes "the rough." For instance, I wouldn't say that the early second round is "the rough."

And, you know, while we're at it, I wouldn't consider Means and Okoye to be diamonds, either. Particularly given where they were picked. If that's the standard, it's actually pretty low.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Yes. You are starting to get it. Bowman and Boone are not "diamonds in the rough". For Boone, he is not good enough to be a "diamond" and for Bowman, he was expected to be very good so he's not a hidden gem either.

If Bowman is not a diamond, how in the world is Natrone Means a diamond? Means was picked 50 spots earlier, made one pro bowl, and lasted on the team that drafted him for three years.

And if Bowman was expected to be a pro bowl player, why did he last into the 90s? Why did teams take Rolando McClain, Sean Weatherspoon, Daryl Washington, Sean Lee, Brandon Spikes, Pat Angerer, and Donald Butler ahead of him?