Kam Chancellor Hold out?

[blstoker]

Kam is the second or third highest paid safety in each of the remaining years of his contract (base salary). The one safety set to make more than Kam the next three years is in the exact same position he is - salary getting higher while dead money drops significantly in the last two seasons. He hasn't out played his contract - he's been exactly what his contract says he is - one of the best SS in the NFL.

I am a fan of the Seahawks, not of Kam Chancellor. On Sunday - Dion Bailey is our SS, Kam isn't even a Seahawk. I will look at Bailey as the starter for the Seahawks, until he no longer is. If Chancellor wants to come back for week 2, then we'll have to see how that changes the situation. But, by his own choice, Kam Chancellor is not a Seahawk this week - and hasn't been thus far this year.

 

[blstoker]

And as for Walter Jones, I'm glad you brought him up. If Kam had done what Walt did no one would bat an eyelash. Hold out during preseason BUT SHOW UP FOR GAME ONE! That is the distinction between those two players.

Not only that, Walter Jones didn't hold out with a long term contract in force, he held out with the franchise tag wanting to get a long term contract. Different situation completely.

 

[gohusk]

For the sake of argument, lets say that Kam folds this week and is back for week 2. Water under the bridge at that point or will the fans still be bitter?

On the field it's fine. As far as professionalism goes, my view of him will always be the gutter.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

On the field it's fine. As far as professionalism goes, my view of him will always be the gutter.

If he comes back, fires his agent, and says he was getting bad advice from him, I'll be more lenient on him. It would explain a lot.

 

[gohusk]

If the hawks lose a close game and his replacement is either just ok or even slightly bad on a few plays, you don't think for a second the pressure from even fans will be to just get this done no matter what it takes? You don't think the pressure to win on the staff will create more room for negotiation even without the public outcry? Really?

You tell me (and by you I mean any who shares your view)

Seattle wins and the replacement plays well.

Seattle loses a close game and he's marginal or bad.

Seattle loses big and his replacement didn't appear to be a factor.

Rank those 3 in terms of what overall impact this would have on his ability to get more from this team and impact his return. Do so and then tell me he doesn't have an interest in the team losing this game. Do it.

Isn't it also a fact that if Seattle goes out and wins their first two games despite his hold out that he's far more likely to come back tail between his legs looking to stop the bleeding of lost game checks knowing whatever leverage he thought he might have had has fully evaporated?

So he's going to be rooting for his team knowing it will cost him millions if they play well without him?

Wake the fuck up people.

Would you spare us the insults? You got your opinion, other people have theirs. I think it's ridiculous to say he's rooting for the team to lose because it's in his best interest. He knows they want him on the field because he's the best in the business.

 

[Cloud]

Kam is the second or third highest paid safety in each of the remaining years of his contract (base salary). The one safety set to make more than Kam the next three years is in the exact same position he is - salary getting higher while dead money drops significantly in the last two seasons. He hasn't out played his contract - he's been exactly what his contract says he is - one of the best SS in the NFL.

I am a fan of the Seahawks, not of Kam Chancellor. On Sunday - Dion Bailey is our SS, Kam isn't even a Seahawk. I will look at Bailey as the starter for the Seahawks, until he no longer is. If Chancellor wants to come back for week 2, then we'll have to see how that changes the situation. But, by his own choice, Kam Chancellor is not a Seahawk this week - and hasn't been thus far this year.

Not only is he not a Seahawk right now he is also quickly losing the support of his teammates. Read the Times column from Art Thiel yesterday... Richard Sherman sounds agitated as hell by this whole thing.

They win before without him.

 

[Cloud]

For the sake of argument, lets say that Kam folds this week and is back for week 2. Water under the bridge at that point or will the fans still be bitter?

As fans you do feel some sort of emotional attachment to some of these players, it's one of the main reasons why many of us are pissed. If he comes back on the field and start hitting people, fine... good for him.

Other than that, I've lost all respect for him at this point, regardless of the outcome.

 

[blstoker]

 

[blstoker]

 

[WizardHawk]

Guys who underplay their contract get cut (the NFL is protected from themselves). Guys who overplay their contract have one resort, to hold out.

We can use all kinds of emotional language 'greed' etc, but he's playing the one card he had to play. He's maybe the most respected guy on the team, from coaches on down to players.

This is either a divorce and we trade him, or he comes back, and the team welcomes him back with open arms, and forgives every penny of fines that they're legally able to.

Let's just let it all play out.

The rules are the way they are to favor the teams. So it goes.

And yes of COURSE he's outplayed his contract, thus the interest from other teams.

If he'd underplayed his contract and was holding out, people would be laughing at him.

There's 30 other teams that would take him (if they could fit his contract in their budget) in a heart-beat.

And no, I'm not going to sue you. Maybe I'll just beat my chest, and arrrrgh real loud on here, kind of like everybody else...

He has not outplayed his contract. I'm standing firm on that. He's the second highest paid SS in the league. Sorry, that's not being super under paid.

If he's that upset over the changes in guaranteed money that has been the trend since he signed his contract, then stop signing contracts for 4+years and just go with a 2 or 3 year deal. All future money that looks good at signing has the potential to be not as great in future years given the growth of the league and increases to the cap.

There is zero excuse to forgive someone holding a team ransom when they have a full 3 years left on a deal when the current one is still not out of line with what's going out on new contracts now.

I guess there are people willing to find excuses to give him room for this exercise in futility because they really don't want to dislike the guy. I'm not among them. He's a dirt bag.

 

[chf]

Ask Bears fans if you can just cut players who underperform their contract. If they could do that then Cutler would have been gone last year already. Sometimes the cap hit is too much to cut a guy. I think Kam's dead money is over $6M so cutting him or trading him isn't even an option even if he'd been complete garbage last year, and if that had happened I doubt Kam would be offering any money back to the team.

And as for Walter Jones, I'm glad you brought him up. If Kam had done what Walt did no one would bat an eyelash. Hold out during preseason BUT SHOW UP FOR GAME ONE! That is the distinction between those two players.

C'mon now. The Bears cut their own throats with Cutler and how they structured his contract. But you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. There's no more contracts like the one that Jamarcus signed. In fact, the big sticking point with Wilson's deal was about how much he wanted in guaranteed money. The league protected itself FROM itself, with the way that they can get out of deals by cutting guys, and not having to pay backloaded contracts.

That's just a fact.

Maybe it's my age, but I remember a lot of angst with Big Walt back in the day, until everybody got used to the new Walt normal.

Do I want Kam playing against the Rams? Yep. I do.

I just want people to turn down the 'he's a greedy SOB, and I HATES him!' rhetoric.

If nothing else, his greedy *ss was a huge part of bring Seattle it's first championship.

 

[chf]

Kam is the second or third highest paid safety in each of the remaining years of his contract (base salary). The one safety set to make more than Kam the next three years is in the exact same position he is - salary getting higher while dead money drops significantly in the last two seasons. He hasn't out played his contract - he's been exactly what his contract says he is - one of the best SS in the NFL.

I am a fan of the Seahawks, not of Kam Chancellor. On Sunday - Dion Bailey is our SS, Kam isn't even a Seahawk. I will look at Bailey as the starter for the Seahawks, until he no longer is. If Chancellor wants to come back for week 2, then we'll have to see how that changes the situation. But, by his own choice, Kam Chancellor is not a Seahawk this week - and hasn't been thus far this year.

Again, why the emotion? If he comes back week 2 and plays like the Kam of old, then Bailey is riding the bench and playing ST's, and we all love him again.

If he doesn't, he brings us a couple of good draft picks and move on.

The rhetoric is unnecessary.

 

[chf]

And that's why the team is reluctant to give him what he wants now. I get that. I'm not saying the team is doing wrong by not giving in.

I'm saying people need to tone down the 'Kam is evuhl' rhetoric. (or greedy or whatever other emotionally loaded words they want to use)

 

[blstoker]

Again, why the emotion? If he comes back week 2 and plays like the Kam of old, then Bailey is riding the bench and playing ST's, and we all love him again.

If he doesn't, he brings us a couple of good draft picks and move on.

The rhetoric is unnecessary.

What emotion? I never said I loved him, or that I hated him, just the reality of the situation. Is Kam going to be suiting up this week? No? Well, then. There are 53 who will be. If Kam comes back next week, then we'll see how that turns out, cause just because I'm a fan and would love to have Kam back, that may not be the case with the coaches who have had to deal with him. If the coaches feel Dion earned a starting spot and Kam hasn't, then I will still root Dion as the starter. Plain and simple, I will root for those who are part of the team, when and if Kam comes back, that includes him.

 

[chf]

He has not outplayed his contract. I'm standing firm on that. He's the second highest paid SS in the league. Sorry, that's not being super under paid.

If he's that upset over the changes in guaranteed money that has been the trend since he signed his contract, then stop signing contracts for 4+years and just go with a 2 or 3 year deal. All future money that looks good at signing has the potential to be not as great in future years given the growth of the league and increases to the cap.

There is zero excuse to forgive someone holding a team ransom when they have a full 3 years left on a deal when the current one is still not out of line with what's going out on new contracts now.

I guess there are people willing to find excuses to give him room for this exercise in futility because they really don't want to dislike the guy. I'm not among them. He's a dirt bag.

1. Outplaying your contract isn't = to 'being super underpaid.' You're gilding the lilly.
2. Forgive? What are we, a bunch of grade 6 girls?
3. What excuses? Like I said, if he brings us a couple of high picks and we move on, then that's all good too. 'Dirt bag,' oh bullshvt. Again, he's respected throughout the team and around the league.

At least you didn't call him a thug I guess.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

C'mon now. The Bears cut their own throats with Cutler and how they structured his contract. But you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. There's no more contracts like the one that Jamarcus signed. In fact, the big sticking point with Wilson's deal was about how much he wanted in guaranteed money. The league protected itself FROM itself, with the way that they can get out of deals by cutting guys, and not having to pay backloaded contracts.

That's just a fact.

Maybe it's my age, but I remember a lot of angst with Big Walt back in the day, until everybody got used to the new Walt normal.

Do I want Kam playing against the Rams? Yep. I do.

I just want people to turn down the 'he's a greedy SOB, and I HATES him!' rhetoric.

If nothing else, his greedy *ss was a huge part of bring Seattle it's first championship.

Yes, but usually when a player pulls this it isn't one year into a new 4 year deal. That is why Kam is taking the heat is getting from fans. It's also the reason why the Cutler comparison is fair at this point. Just like Cutler can't be cut due to cap reasons neither can Kam. Not for another couple years anyway when his cap hit is less.

People are calling him greedy because that is the instant perception you get from this particular situation. I don't think it is out of line for people to think that way at all. If he'd asked for his raise, held out of camp, but still came to play the way Walt did nobody would give a rip. Kam just did it in a very poor way IMO.

 

[chf]

and would love to have Kam back

Fair enough.

And to be clear, I'm 100% guilty of condensing my thoughts on sixty or so posts, and a dozen or so posters in this thread in my last responses.

If I've unfairly tarred you or someone else with too broad a brush, my apologies.

 

[WizardHawk]

Would you spare us the insults? You got your opinion, other people have theirs. I think it's ridiculous to say he's rooting for the team to lose because it's in his best interest. He knows they want him on the field because he's the best in the business.

Saying 'wake the fuck up' is insulting to you? You are easily insulted.

I notice you didn't bother answering the questions asked. Because you can't. He would stand to benefit from a loss and you know it. Thus, if he is holding out he's banking on his ability to force the issue with bad play by his replacement. You can at least agree that if his replacement plays lights out he almost certainly has to come in right? Just connect those dots man.

 

[chf]

Yes, but usually when a player pulls this it isn't one year into a new 4 year deal. That is why Kam is taking the heat is getting from fans. It's also the reason why the Cutler comparison is fair at this point. Just like Cutler can't be cut due to cap reasons neither can Kam. Not for another couple years anyway when his cap hit is less.

People are calling him greedy because that is the instant perception you get from this particular situation. I don't think it is out of line for people to think that way at all. If he'd asked for his raise, held out of camp, but still came to play the way Walt did nobody would give a rip. Kam just did it in a very poor way IMO.

I agree he did it in a poor way. But what other way did he have to do it?

That's the one bullet in his gun. The only bullet. No others exist.

Well, I guess he could just dog it, and not give up his body, not be 'Kam,' that would be another bullet he has, but then he wouldn't be Kam.

Which is why he's either going to be back or traded.

And I could have been clearer, I was speaking generally, state of the NFL' with cutting guys. I realize that we're not cutting Kam.

Even if it wasn't the money, that would be stupid, because he's a valuable asset. (First and a fourth minimum?)

 

[chf]

Just connect those dots man.

Ah, the ol conspiracy card!

(thank goodness we actually have real football tonight like it says in your sig)