JvR for Vokoun Rumors

[WOOTPOKER]

if anyone should go, it should be on offense. this team is 1st in the nhl in goals per game. we have perhaps the finest defense in flyers history right now and taking any piece out of it would be stupid. we have 3 legit pairings where not a single member of the defense is a weak link. you take out a guy like carle then you have to throw in a bartulis whos inexperienced or a walker who's average at best. i much would rather have 6 reliable, experienced defenseman, and yes, they are all experienced as they have all played for 5+ seasons. i don't want to move anyone on this team really, but if they had to, i think they can afford it on forward as opposed to on defense. when you are first in the nhl in goals per game, losing a forward will hardly hurt your production. plus, we've lost guys like knuble, umberger, gagne, upshall, lupul all in the past 3 seasons and the offense has chugged right along and people have filled in their spots. however if anyone is gonna be acquired before the trade deadline, i'd rather them move draft picks so that the chemistry of the team isnt changed.

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

if anyone should go, it should be on offense. this team is 1st in the nhl in goals per game. we have perhaps the finest defense in flyers history right now and taking any piece out of it would be stupid. we have 3 legit pairings where not a single member of the defense is a weak link. you take out a guy like carle then you have to throw in a bartulis whos inexperienced or a walker who's average at best. i much would rather have 6 reliable, experienced defenseman, and yes, they are all experienced as they have all played for 5+ seasons. i don't want to move anyone on this team really, but if they had to, i think they can afford it on forward as opposed to on defense. when you are first in the nhl in goals per game, losing a forward will hardly hurt your production. plus, we've lost guys like knuble, umberger, gagne, upshall, lupul all in the past 3 seasons and the offense has chugged right along and people have filled in their spots. however if anyone is gonna be acquired before the trade deadline, i'd rather them move draft picks so that the chemistry of the team isnt changed.

I don't want to move draft picks mainly for the fact I have not watched the flyers use a 1st round pick in 3 years. (since Luca Sbisa)

 

[WOOTPOKER]

yeah i really want them to use a first round pick this year too. but just saying that if the flyers are going to get anyone before the trade deadline, i'd rather them use like 2nd/3rd round picks instead of pieces of the team

 

[anderwho2513]

Considering they don't have another 2nd round pick until 2013, their options are limited.

And I'm still processing post 21. I'll have a response when I get a chance.

 

[kevin_23610]

You clearly meant 1. Coburn, 2. Timonen, 3. Meszaros, 4. Pronger, 5. Carle.

It's okay, I got your back.

Coburn is better than Kimmo and Pronger? Please just go watch basketball.

 

[kevin_23610]

JVR will NEVER be a 30 goal a season scorer, ever. He's a bust. If he ever breaks 20 a season, I'd be REALLY surprised. I give this kid 5 seasons till he's in the minors. I'd take Vokoun for JVR any day of the week, since we dont seem to have a goalie who can stop a shot from the trapozoid.

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

JVR will NEVER be a 30 goal a season scorer, ever. He's a bust. If he ever breaks 20 a season, I'd be REALLY surprised. I give this kid 5 seasons till he's in the minors. I'd take Vokoun for JVR any day of the week, since we dont seem to have a goalie who can stop a shot from the trapozoid.

He'll break 20 this season and 30 next. I would bet many dollars on that.

 

[awaz]

JVR will NEVER be a 30 goal a season scorer, ever. He's a bust. If he ever breaks 20 a season, I'd be REALLY surprised. I give this kid 5 seasons till he's in the minors. I'd take Vokoun for JVR any day of the week, since we dont seem to have a goalie who can stop a shot from the trapozoid.

he's on pace for 20 this year, even after waiting 2 months to start playing

 

[flyersfan4706]

The man looks damn hungry to me

 

[WOOTPOKER]

JVR is really starting to look good..he's DEFINITELY going to be a 30 goal scorer and has potential to be even more than that. lately he just looks so confident streaking down the side of the rink and using his speed size and power to get past defenders

 

[anderwho2513]

if anyone should go, it should be on offense. this team is 1st in the nhl in goals per game. we have perhaps the finest defense in flyers history right now and taking any piece out of it would be stupid. we have 3 legit pairings where not a single member of the defense is a weak link. you take out a guy like carle then you have to throw in a bartulis whos inexperienced or a walker who's average at best. i much would rather have 6 reliable, experienced defenseman, and yes, they are all experienced as they have all played for 5+ seasons. i don't want to move anyone on this team really, but if they had to, i think they can afford it on forward as opposed to on defense. when you are first in the nhl in goals per game, losing a forward will hardly hurt your production. plus, we've lost guys like knuble, umberger, gagne, upshall, lupul all in the past 3 seasons and the offense has chugged right along and people have filled in their spots. however if anyone is gonna be acquired before the trade deadline, i'd rather them move draft picks so that the chemistry of the team isnt changed.

If you look at the offense, they have 13 forwards. Just for reference, let's go with tonight's lineup.

Nodl-Richards-Zherdev
van Riemsdyk-Giroux-Carter
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Shelley-Betts-Powe
(Carcillo)

If you trade someone from the forwards and don't get someone to replace them, then you are forced to 1. play both Carcillo and Shelley in the playoffs, and 2. play either Carcillo or Powe in a scoring role, something they clearly cannot do.

On the flip side, Bartulis has shown the last few weeks that he is a very capable 3rd pairing guy. If you trade Carle or Coburn (as previously stated, interchangeable in many aspects of the game, although I prefer Coburn's size and skating while making less money), you would have Bartulis playing on the 3rd pairing with O'Donnell (absolutely acceptable 3rd pairing) or maybe even Pronger-Bartulis, which you'd have to believe would make Bartulis look even better. If you don't like Bartulis, Walker, while slower than death, has really been solid in his own end the last 3 days. If nothing else, he's a defensively responsible version of Shelley while giving the defense a right-handed shot for the first time since Jason Smith left. Both of those guys would be much better in the playoffs than Carcillo/Shelley.

If you want to take it a step further and look at the Phantoms for replacements, in case of a trade and then an injury, I'd trust Syvret's 55 game experience much more than I'd trust Wellwood's 3.

Thus, Carle is more expendable than a forward.

 

[TOX1]

Coburn is better than Kimmo and Pronger? Please just go watch basketball.

Welcome to the board Kev!

 

[kevin_23610]

Well, if we lose in the playoffs this year, I REALLY dont feel like hearing "goalie" talk all summer again. It gets old

 

[kevin_23610]

Welcome to the board Kev!

Thank you!

 

[ProppRules]

I don't see how Carle is that expendable. The team looks dominant. More dominant than I have ever seen, and their defense is a huge part of it. Our problem last year was lack of depth on D. Why trade a young defenseman who has done everything right this year for them, and is the regular partner of Pronger? I am all for making the team better, but he is producing now, fills a role, and is part of the future. So there is no reason to move him. High paid? Definitely. But the team looks dominant, and they are affording him just fine. If they can upgrade the team and he is part of it, then fine. BUt I don't see how that would happen.

 

[awaz]

i gotta be honest, i dont see how this team can improve.. not that it's a perfect team, i'd like a sure fire starting goalie as much as the next guy, but to get that we'd have to give up a solid forward or a solid d-man, and i would prefer having the skaters we have now, with the goalies we have now, then anderwho's weaker version of the forwards or trading carle.. i think trading carle would be a big mistake because i think carle covers up pronger's deficincies in the defensive zone frequently and i think i would have far more allies when it comes to pronger if carle wasn't there

the only way the team could improve, IMO, would be to trade draft picks for roster ready players.. but we dont have the draft picks to trade, nor is that a move we should make

it would take some serious miracle working from homer for me to like a trade that he would do now

 

[Maverick426h]

JVR for virtually anyone is a huge mistake. he's starting to really show flashes of a #2 overall pick and hes only 21..and we all know that power forwards take slightly longer to develop. and hes still very cheap and probably will be affordable for the next few years. he's going to develop into a perennial 30 goal guy..getting rid of him is just absurd especially considering his age

That is so true. This kid already does things on the ice that nobody else on our team can do. And I mean positive things like driving hard to the net with power and speed, not to mention the incredible slap shot that he never uses. Carter may be able to pull that off, but we don't see it out of him half as much.

As far as JvR, it may not show in his stats how well he's playing, but that's only because he was ice cold for about the first 15 games of the season. His production over the last 26 games is a better display of how he is producing now and going to produce in the future. You would expect him to have an absolute breakout season next year. So, let's go ahead and trade him before he becomes a star, kind of like we did with Sharp...lol Who doesn't regret that move? It may have lost us a Cup.

And I would never consider trading Carle. If you're making a run at the Cup, as we appear to be this season and next, then he and the rest of the defensive depth will be one of the main reasons why we go far in the playoffs.

 

[WOOTPOKER]

That is so true. This kid already does things on the ice that nobody else on our team can do. And I mean positive things like driving hard to the net with power and speed, not to mention the incredible slap shot that he never uses. Carter may be able to pull that off, but we don't see it out of him half as much.

As far as JvR, it may not show in his stats how well he's playing, but that's only because he was ice cold for about the first 15 games of the season. His production over the last 26 games is a better display of how he is producing now and going to produce in the future. You would expect him to have an absolute breakout season next year. So, let's go ahead and trade him before he becomes a star, kind of like we did with Sharp...lol Who doesn't regret that move? It may have lost us a Cup.

And I would never consider trading Carle. If you're making a run at the Cup, as we appear to be this season and next, then he and the rest of the defensive depth will be one of the main reasons why we go far in the playoffs.

agreed, agreed, agreed. i don't like the whole "serviceable 3rd pairing mentality." with carle we are able to roll 3 pairs with 6 very good defenseman. i'd rather do that then 5 very good defenseman and one average. the more you have the better. plus what if an injury or two comes around? what if timonen and mez were to both go down? we'd be in a disaster. keep the depth we have. we all saw what happened last year with bartulis on the third pairing in the playoffs.. altho i do like bartulis and think he will develop into a decent 3rd pairing guy

 

[anderwho2513]

agreed, agreed, agreed. i don't like the whole "serviceable 3rd pairing mentality." with carle we are able to roll 3 pairs with 6 very good defenseman. i'd rather do that then 5 very good defenseman and one average. the more you have the better. plus what if an injury or two comes around? what if timonen and mez were to both go down? we'd be in a disaster. keep the depth we have. we all saw what happened last year with bartulis on the third pairing in the playoffs.. altho i do like bartulis and think he will develop into a decent 3rd pairing guy

There's a huge difference between Bartulis paired with Krajicek and Bartulis playing with O'Donnell or Pronger.

 

[banditshcky11]

Trading JVR is a horrible idea... Unless he was packaged with 1 or 2 other guys and brought in either Ryan & Hiller, or Brown and Quick... Also I know this is completely unrealistic, but like I already said trading him is a horrible idea(unless you're getting over compensated).