Just bad enough...

[hawkfan1073]

Mariners need to play just bad enough to maintain a top 10 pick in next years draft. Top 10 picks are protected when signing free agents.

Why we'll see tanking in September - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN

 

[Destroydacre]

Seattle won't sign a free agent that would cost them a first round pick in the first place.

 

[seahawksfan234]

You keep forgetting that we are the Mariners.

In 2008 we finished with a 3 game winning streak.

If not for that winning streak we would have held the #1 selection in the 2009 draft.

You know who was selected #1 in the 2009 draft? Stephen Strasburg.

Who did the Mariners get at #2? Dustin Ackley.

Wouldn't be surprised if we finish right outside the top 10, just because we are the Mariners.

 

[unlvmariners]

The Mariners have 24 games left. I think it is realistic the M's lose 14 of those games. Which would put the team at 72-90 to finish the season. There are 13-14 teams playing for the bottom 10 I think we can get in.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The Mariners have 24 games left. I think it is realistic the M's lose 14 of those games. Which would put the team at 72-90 to finish the season. There are 13-14 teams playing for the bottom 10 I think we can get in.

You know you're a Mariners fan when the end of season discussion is the team losing enough games to get a high enough draft pick.

 

[blstoker]

You know you're a Mariners fan when the end of season discussion is the team losing enough games to get a high enough draft pick.

I'm tired of this kind of talk. Man, other than the Seahawks, every professional team I follow has fans who advocate for losing into a better draft pick (and even the Seahawks board on CBS had this a couple years ago). Really, what about the Mariners' early draft picks make people think that there's a huge advantage for the M's to pick higher.

Look at the last few top 10 picks by the Mariners:

2012- #3 Mike Zunino - only 106 ABs, so how he'll turn out, we'll just have to see.
2011- #2 Danny Hultzen - hasn't reached MLB and has missed most of this season due to injury.
2009- #2 Dustin Ackley - the complaints about his nearly 3 years in the MLB are many and varied.
2006- #6 Brandon Morrow - couldn't really stay in a role in Seattle, has had 2 good part seasons in the MLB in 7 years.
2005- #3 Jeff Clement - Pirates got screwed on that trade.

Other than the last two drafts on the list, there's a case that fans make for players that were passed on and went on to out perform whoever the Mariners take. Case in point:

Ackley- Mike Trout, Drew Storen, Mike Leak, Mike Minor
Morrow- Tim Lincecum, Clayton Kershaw, Max Scherzer, Ian Kennedy, Chris Perez
Clement- Take your pick!!!!

The last time the Mariners had a first rounder of any pick that came up and had significant success with the Mariners was Alex Rodriguez in 1993. I know there's a lot of hope for Peterson, Zunino, Hultzen, Walker, Ackley and Franklin, but M's history would suggest that only 1 or 2 of them will actually become solid players, and we can just pray it's for the Mariners.

I am more concerned with how we're gonna develop players than I am with which pick we take them with.

 

[cezero]

You know you're a Mariners fan when the end of season discussion is the team losing enough games to get a high enough draft pick.

Ironic, but true. Any prudent fan looks at drafting as an important tool in true rebuilding. It's a lost season. Finishing lower will be a benefit, though I would never want to see the team just start tanking intentionally, of course.

 

[unlvmariners]

I'm tired of this kind of talk. Man, other than the Seahawks, every professional team I follow has fans who advocate for losing into a better draft pick (and even the Seahawks board on CBS had this a couple years ago). Really, what about the Mariners' early draft picks make people think that there's a huge advantage for the M's to pick higher.

Look at the last few top 10 picks by the Mariners:

2012- #3 Mike Zunino - only 106 ABs, so how he'll turn out, we'll just have to see.
2011- #2 Danny Hultzen - hasn't reached MLB and has missed most of this season due to injury.
2009- #2 Dustin Ackley - the complaints about his nearly 3 years in the MLB are many and varied.
2006- #6 Brandon Morrow - couldn't really stay in a role in Seattle, has had 2 good part seasons in the MLB in 7 years.
2005- #3 Jeff Clement - Pirates got screwed on that trade.

Other than the last two drafts on the list, there's a case that fans make for players that were passed on and went on to out perform whoever the Mariners take. Case in point:

Ackley- Mike Trout, Drew Storen, Mike Leak, Mike Minor
Morrow- Tim Lincecum, Clayton Kershaw, Max Scherzer, Ian Kennedy, Chris Perez
Clement- Take your pick!!!!

The last time the Mariners had a first rounder of any pick that came up and had significant success with the Mariners was Alex Rodriguez in 1993. I know there's a lot of hope for Peterson, Zunino, Hultzen, Walker, Ackley and Franklin, but M's history would suggest that only 1 or 2 of them will actually become solid players, and we can just pray it's for the Mariners.

I am more concerned with how we're gonna develop players than I am with which pick we take them with.

I understand your point. Unfortunately its not just about the pick its about free agents and potentially loosing a pick all together. I don't mind where the Mariners pick as much as I want the flexibilty to sign any free agent without loosing a pick. I actually think the Mariners make pretty good picks for the most part in the rounds following the first.

I don't want the Mariners to lose but it is highly likely that they will.

 

[blstoker]

I understand your point. Unfortunately its not just about the pick its about free agents and potentially loosing a pick all together. I don't mind where the Mariners pick as much as I want the flexibilty to sign any free agent without loosing a pick. I actually think the Mariners make pretty good picks for the most part in the rounds following the first.

I don't want the Mariners to lose but it is highly likely that they will.

The Mariners have not had much track record in their free agents either, and even the ones who would cost us a first round pick usually don't come to Seattle. When was the last time we signed one? 2004? At least that's the last time the M's didn't have a first round pick.

I'm not saying that protecting the pick is bad, I'm not saying having a shot at a top pick is bad, but I'd be just as happy if the M's go on a 20 game win streak and end with a winning record (will not happen) and have to pick in the middle or give the pick up as compensation. I just don't like the idea of tanking for better picks.

 

[hawkfan1073]

I wasnt advocating tanking for a high draft pick...I just want them to not have to give up that draft pick if they go after a free agent that requires a pick in return for him.

 

[unlvmariners]

The Mariners have not had much track record in their free agents either, and even the ones who would cost us a first round pick usually don't come to Seattle. When was the last time we signed one? 2004? At least that's the last time the M's didn't have a first round pick.

I'm not saying that protecting the pick is bad, I'm not saying having a shot at a top pick is bad, but I'd be just as happy if the M's go on a 20 game win streak and end with a winning record (will not happen) and have to pick in the middle or give the pick up as compensation. I just don't like the idea of tanking for better picks.

I don't like the idea of tanking either... Losing games on purpose is fucking stupid. Not being a good enough team to actually win games sucks too. If the Mariners are in the bottom ten it puts them in a better position in the offseason that is all. They may have missed on free agents and draft picks before but every team has. It would be nice to have a few of them work out for us.

 

[Baseballnut77]

it is understandable to be frustrated by recent seasons but you also have to look at how long runs of good clubs are built. In our financial lot in this game, building through the draft and with hopefully some good trades and free agent signings you can build a team that is stable for a longer period of time and therefore challenging for a longer period of time. We have some good young kids with a few more on the way. the F.A. market is slim pickings this year so we need to hold our ground and hopefully picke up a solid F.A. and drive forward. i have touted my stance in other places for the past 3 years and i stand firm that next year is the year we turn the corner assuming nobody in the front office panicks and starts trading all the kids for a longshot

 

[wazzu31]

You keep forgetting that we are the Mariners.

In 2008 we finished with a 3 game winning streak.

If not for that winning streak we would have held the #1 selection in the 2009 draft.

You know who was selected #1 in the 2009 draft? Stephen Strasburg.

Who did the Mariners get at #2? Dustin Ackley.

Wouldn't be surprised if we finish right outside the top 10, just because we are the Mariners.

I think it was Chone Figgins, or some free agent that Seattle had to give up a pick that cost the Mariners Trout, not the 2nd pick.

 

[wazzu31]

I don't like the idea of tanking either... Losing games on purpose is fucking stupid. Not being a good enough team to actually win games sucks too. If the Mariners are in the bottom ten it puts them in a better position in the offseason that is all. They may have missed on free agents and draft picks before but every team has. It would be nice to have a few of them work out for us.

You don't lose on purpose, its the time of year to try different things that you would never do in a playoff hunt, play younger or less experienced guys. Generally getting "guy's feet wet" or switching up the lineup is not really tanking it but putting you in a situation where winning is a huge bonus.

 

[johnfree63]

I think it was Chone Figgins, or some free agent that Seattle had to give up a pick that cost the Mariners Trout, not the 2nd pick.

It was signing Josh Fields that cost them the 2nd shot at Trout (who they probably wouldn't have picked anyway). Signing Figgins cost them the 18th pick of the 2010 draft. So far the only players that have made any impact after that pick are Christian Yelich and Taijuan Walker

 

[unlvmariners]

You don't lose on purpose, its the time of year to try different things that you would never do in a playoff hunt, play younger or less experienced guys. Generally getting "guy's feet wet" or switching up the lineup is not really tanking it but putting you in a situation where winning is a huge bonus.

I am aware of this. My point was about advocating loosing or not to get a draft pick in the top 10 and if we do have a top 10 pick how it can help the Mariners during the off season if the upper management actually goes after a top free agent.

 

[dude82]

The M's are gonna finish how they finish. If it happens that they finish with a record good enough to be picking below the 10th pick in the draft, then that's where they finish. I just don't want to see a bunch of people saying they blew it at the end of the season because they didn't lose enough to have the pick top-10 protected. I'd rather see them finish strong this year and have the young guys currently on the roster gain confidence heading into the off-season that they not only belong up here, but that they can have success as a team up here too. If it means finishing outside the top 10 picks in next year's draft, so be it.