Judge For Yourselves

[Dr. Evil-er]

developmental player contribution, salary cap, team character, and advising ownership of what is best for the team.

Those are the areas I would say are the leading indicators of a GM's success or failure.

Developmental player contribution = ???? Willie Young would be the closest I can think of. Not one real contributor in 5 years of drafting and UDFA's (obviously not looking at this year). IMO I would put him very near the bottom of the league here.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Jahvid Best, Mikel LeShoure, Ryan Broyles, Titus Young, Brandon Pettigrew, Eric Ebron and Stafford. That is 4 1st round picks and 3 second round picks. That doesn't even include spending valuable cap space to fix his drafting mistakes by signing Reggie Bush and now Golden Tate.

I'd say it is a pretty healthy infatuation.

So if he picks any players at QB, RB, WR or TE he then has an infatuation? Then he's also infatuated with D-linemen, O-linemen, LBs, and defensive backs, because he's drafted multiple of each of those positions in the 1st 3 rounds during his tenure.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

salary cap, team character, and advising ownership of what is best for the team.

Those are the areas I would say are the leading indicators of a GM's success or failure.

Salary cap = While Lewand may share an equal or perhaps even greater responsibility here we have been terrible. Yes he got stuck with big contracts under the old CBA but so did many other teams that were perennially near the bottom. It was all the restructuring that got us into trouble and that was just piss poor mgmt. Again near the bottom of the league here.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

team character, and advising ownership of what is best for the team.

Those are the areas I would say are the leading indicators of a GM's success or failure.

You can blame the coaching staff all you want but he is above them on the orginizational chart and therefore shares responsibility. Even though we havent had any arrests lately we had so many in the first few years of his tenure it was ridiculous. This was going on at the same time the public was being fed the crap of the "great lockerroon guys" that were being brought in. At the same time we were undiscipled on the field as well. Again you can blame coaching but shouldnt our GM be the one pressing the coach to get it right or else? That didnt happen here and if he had been doing it right Schwartz and staff would not have been around for as long as they were.

and advising ownership of what is best for the team.

He is the GM, so advising ownership is absolutely a key part of his job. So not only did he not get Schwartz and Co. to get the team character right he actually advised ownership to extend his damn contract. And they paid him at an amount that was top 10. The Ford family didnt come to him and Lewand and instruct them to extend and overpay. You are kidding yourself if you think they did. So for Mayhew to be saying that one year later he wanted to fire Schwartz is a damn joke. Had he not extended him he absolutely could have because that was the end of his original contract. His contribution in this area has been equally as bad as several of the other categories where he has been a bottom feeder.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Drafting, trades, free agency, developmental player contribution, salary cap, team character, and advising ownership of what is best for the team.

Those are the areas I would say are the leading indicators of a GM's success or failure.

Mayhew has been horrible at drafting. I'm sorry but Stafford really was an easy pick. We had a LT that hadnt missed a game in a decade so J. Smith wasnt really a serious option, and when is the last LB that went #1, and I cant even remember who the other possibility was that year. We had Orlovsky starting for crying out loud, Stafford wasnt a tough call. It was Suh or McCoy the next year. Well McCoy is also a Pro Bowler so he wouldnt go wrong either way. To this point Fairley has been a disappointment. Reiff has been average. In the second and third round (where you are supposed to find quality starters as well) he has been nothing short of awful. Only when Xanders comes into the picture do our drafts improve. No way is he in the top half in this category.

Completely disagree.

He's been average drafting, imo. He certainly hasn't been good, due to his misses and the 2011 draft, in particular. But he's also had some very good picks and the 2013 draft was spectacular. Calling his good picks "easy choices" is a cop-out, as is giving credit soly to Xanders, imo. The 2nd and 3rd rounds have produced Delmas, Levy, Broyles, Bentley, Slay, and Warford. Obviously not as much talent as you'd like to see in that span, but certainly enough that he's been well short of awful. Warford was the best pick in the entire draft last year, and Mayhew landed him in the 3rd.

I'm still not saying that he's doing a great job, but I think if those hating on him would look more closely at the other team's drafts over the same span that Mayhew has been our GM they'd realize that he doesn't do nearly as bad as he gets credited for. Every team, even Seattle, Green Bay, San Fran, Denver, and New England, all miss on players. The elite GMs do it less often than others, but Mayhew isn't as far back as it's being made to seem...

 

[Rollingthndr]

Bottom line is Mayhew's record is 29-51.

Yes, he inherited a terrible team... Let us also not forget he helped create that team as Millen's assistant.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

All those are nothing more than my opinions, take them for whatever value you want.

Feel free to disagree but I think you would have a very difficult task to try and suggest that even if you dont rank him at the bottom in some categories like I did that you could make a legitimate case for him to be in the top half sans one category

If you are in the bottom half in darn near every single category then you are most likely to be near the very bottom as other GM's should rank higher in at least some categories.

So I think its more than fair to beg the question of how in the world does this guy still have a job.

I am fully aware that my stance on many issues and just how deeply my discontent with this team is at right now frustrates the hell out of some of you, including some of my good friends. But I'm not sure we are a better team entering the season and I dont think our front office has any vision for the future. Because they have been so bad they are in job preservation mode which is not good for the team in the long run.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

He's been average drafting, imo. He certainly hasn't been good, due to his misses and the 2011 draft, in particular. But he's also had some very good picks and the 2013 draft was spectacular

The saving grace to try and make a case for him ranking as average is solely on the basis of the 2013 draft and interestingly enough that comes on the heels of adding Xanders and his way of evaluating talent. If you want to give him credit for hiring Xanders then fine, but his record prior to that doesnt even come close to being average.

Calling his good picks "easy choices" is a cop-out, as is giving credit soly to Xanders, imo

Xanders is the link from our drafts going from pretty darn bad to good. Can you actually make a case that anyone else other than Stafford and Suh would have been the picks? Good luck with that.

The 2nd and 3rd rounds have produced Delmas, Levy, Broyles, Bentley, Slay, and Warford. Obviously not as much talent as you'd like to see in that span, but certainly enough that he's been well short of awful.

Delmas was the #33 pick and never more than very average. Levy was nothing before last year. Broyles was injured when he was drafted and been a complete nothing, I cant believe you even attempted to put him on your list. Bentley?? Huh?? Slay and Warford come from last years draft, the very one that he got the benefit of Xanders from. You can name just as many second and third round picks who gave us absolutely nothing during their time with the team.

but I think if those hating on him would look more closely at the other team's drafts over the same span that Mayhew has been our GM they'd realize that he doesn't do nearly as bad as he gets credited for. Every team, even Seattle, Green Bay, San Fran, Denver, and New England, all miss on players. The elite GMs do it less often than others, but Mayhew isn't as far back as it's being made to seem...

So show us where more than half the teams in the league have blown their drafts over the last five years to find less production than we have. That's another one I'll wish you good luck with because if the list you offered above is the best we've gotten I think you will be hard pressed to find very many teams that have been worse. Yes teams miss on picks, but we have missed or gotten little of nothing out of a lot of picks. 29-61 W/L record. Even if you discount the first two years to rebuild a bit he is 21-27 in the last three years.

 

[Howie115]

So if he picks any players at QB, RB, WR or TE he then has an infatuation? Then he's also infatuated with D-linemen, O-linemen, LBs, and defensive backs, because he's drafted multiple of each of those positions in the 1st 3 rounds during his tenure.

Lions draft choices in the Mahew era (2009-present):

QB - 1
RB - 2
DB - 4 (none in 1st round)
DL - 3
WR - 3
OL - 3
LB - 2
TE - 2 (both 1st round/top 20 - no other NFL team has drafted even one TE in the top 20 over this stretch)

Overall, 11 offense and 9 defense.

 

[Howie115]

That should be draft choices in the first 3 rounds. ^

Offense and Defense ranks over the same seasons above...

2009: Offense = 26th yards/27th points, Defense = 32nd yards/32nd points
2010: Offense = 17th yards/15th points, Defense = 21st yards/19th points
2011: Offense = 5th yards/4th points, Defense = 23rd yards/23rd points
2012: Offense = 3rd yards/13th points, Defense = 17th yards/27th points
2013: Offense = 6th yards/13th points, Defense = 16th yards/15th points

One could make a case that Mahew hasn't addressed the necessary side of the ball, though I realize there's more to building a team than the draft.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Well, I just saw Ebron will count about $2.2 mill toward the cap this year. Pettigrew signed for an average of $4 mill a season. That signing came after his receptions dropped from 83 to 59 to 41 over the last three seasons. Inexplicable to me. Not sure how much of Brandon's salary is against the cap this year. But when the team has less than $1 million in cap space prior to the Houston move, I DO look at the TE position as part of the problem.

5% of this year's cap on two players, one a starter and the other basically also a starter, isn't too bad at all, imo. I don't see those two contracts as being part of the problem.

As far as "problem" contracts go, we have 3, and they belong to Suh, Stafford, and Megatron, basically in that order...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Feel free to disagree but I think you would have a very difficult task to try and suggest that even if you dont rank him at the bottom in some categories like I did that you could make a legitimate case for him to be in the top half sans one category

If you are in the bottom half in darn near every single category then you are most likely to be near the very bottom as other GM's should rank higher in at least some categories.

Problem here is that you're not comparing him to any real GMs- he's simply being measured against an imaginary gold standard. I want to see how he compares to other GMs... there's 32 teams in the league, and only a handful have 'upper echelon" GMs.

I think Mayhew suffers from a case of unfair expectations in the Lions fan's court of public opinion. I think a lot of fans have an unrealistic sense of how often other team's picks bust out...

 

[broncosmitty]

Anybody know how many teams there are which haven't been better than 16th in defense in the last 5 years? My guess: One. This one.

 

[gandydancer]

Problem here is that you're not comparing him to any real GMs- he's simply being measured against an imaginary gold standard. I want to see how he compares to other GMs... there's 32 teams in the league, and only a handful have 'upper echelon" GMs.

I think Mayhew suffers from a case of unfair expectations in the Lions fan's court of public opinion. I think a lot of fans have an unrealistic sense of how often other team's picks bust out...

Tpaul, if he rates as 10th best than 22 other teams have terrible GM's. IMO no different if he ranks 20th or 30th. He has way more negative hits than positives. He should have been fired with Schwartz. His future job will not be football related unless a college friend is running another team. He will be fired within this regime coaching. Whether they all go together or him first, he will be done within Caldwell's tenure.
IMO the simple fact not being able to answer Meow's question with resounding facts answers the question. Don't care what other franchises have at GM or what they do. Mayhew is subpar at his job against a bronze standard.

 

[gandydancer]

Anybody know how many teams there are which haven't been better than 16th in defense in the last 5 years? My guess: One. This one.

Total yards? Scoring defense? I got time may give both. Let me eat this dagwood sammich real quick.

 

[broncosmitty]

Total yards? Scoring defense? I got time may give both. Let me eat this dagwood sammich real quick.

Yards or scoring. Or both. Do Dagwood Sammies taste like DogGone ones?

 

[gandydancer]

Yards or scoring. Or both. Do Dagwood Sammies taste like DogGone ones?

Before your time Smitty...

 

[gandydancer]

Yards or scoring. Or both. Do Dagwood Sammies taste like DogGone ones?

Yards
Colts only team
Lions Pats Jags Raiders and Bills 4 times. Lions 13th in 2012

Scoring
Lions Skins Raiders Jags

Broncos Bills 4 times

From Nfl . com stats

 

[jayfan]

How many players on last year's team were Millen holdovers?

 

[gandydancer]

How many players on last year's team were Millen holdovers?

Wrong question...many teams have a lot of roster turnover in 6 year span. Ted Thompson one of the best at letting talent walk and not overpay and receive comp picks. To me that question proves what? You need to elaborate why you asked it.

CJ, Dom and Mulbach are only three I can think of... and Mayhew oh nevermind.