joey votto is a huge choker

[navamind]

Walks and OBP are nice.... When the guy behind you gets hits. BigD stole my quote while I was driving.

Those things are always nice. They shouldn't be held against him if the guys behind him aren't hitting.

 

[broncosmitty]

I'm not holding anything against Votto. Well... Maybe a little bit. But only 6th in the blame rankings is pretty good for an MVP caliber player in a one game playoff matchup. Choo gets no blame what so ever and Todd Frazier virtually none though.

 

[navamind]

I'm not holding anything against Votto. Well... Maybe a little bit. But only 6th in the blame rankings is pretty good for an MVP caliber player in a one game playoff matchup. Choo gets no blame what so ever and Todd Frazier virtually none though.

fair enough. But I think Votto was the biggest reason the Reds even clinched a playoff spot (though I suppose it's debatable whether you can call making it to the WC game and losing "making the playoffs"). I just think it's silly how unappreciated he's become by Reds fans, kinda like Twins fans and Mauer.

 

[broncosmitty]

He was definitely one of the top two or three reasons. Possibly first, maybe even probably first. I'm surely not gonna blame him for the Reds being done, that's for sure.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Not even close to the first person to blame. Maybe the sixth person, but that's pushing it. Guy had what, 74 RBI all year?

Well, let me rephrase that, He is the first offensive player you should blame... Of course the first one to blame is Dusty for some terrible decisions.... But I do believe that anytime a team loses, the best player should have had a better game(unless it is impossible), and when the Best player has a bad game, he definitely should get the blame for the loss...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'm not holding anything against Votto. Well... Maybe a little bit. But only 6th in the blame rankings is pretty good for an MVP caliber player in a one game playoff matchup. Choo gets no blame what so ever and Todd Frazier virtually none though.

I have Votto 2nd after dusty... Only reason Votto is ahead of Cueto is because Cueto did not deserve to be pitching then, that was a dusty decision... I am not going to penalize someone we dont have high expectations for when they have a bad game... Votto had runners in scoring position with less than 2 outs 3 times in the game... and went 0-4 with 2 strike outs... that is terrible, and he is their best player...

 

[broncosmitty]

He didn't get the Reds to where they were by driving in runs in the regular season either. I don't expect a guy who drove in 49 runs, aside from himself, to be carrying an offense in the post season. Especially as a lefty, facing a lefty, who absolutely dominates lefties. (I hear you on not blaming Cueto. But I an throw him in as one one of the guys who didn't scream at Dusty for starting him.).

 

[ckhokie]

fair enough. But I think Votto was the biggest reason the Reds even clinched a playoff spot (though I suppose it's debatable whether you can call making it to the WC game and losing "making the playoffs"). I just think it's silly how unappreciated he's become by Reds fans, kinda like Twins fans and Mauer.

Without Votto, I think we go 80-82 ish. Our offense this year extremely inconsistent. If we score 30-40 fewer runs this year, we're no better than a .500 club, and even that's entirely thanks to our pitching.

 

[element1286]

Phillips bat looked slow last night, he either didn't see the ball, or he is hurt or something, he looked like a 50 year old guy playing beer league softball his bat speed was so slow.

 

[Darkstone42]

He didn't get the Reds to where they were by driving in runs in the regular season either. I don't expect a guy who drove in 49 runs, aside from himself, to be carrying an offense in the post season. Especially as a lefty, facing a lefty, who absolutely dominates lefties. (I hear you on not blaming Cueto. But I an throw him in as one one of the guys who didn't scream at Dusty for starting him.).

The bolded part is why I can't pin too much on Votto. Liriano was on last night, and on or not, he ate lefties alive this season to the tune of a .151 wOBA against, a 26.8% strikeout rate, a 67.8% groundball rate, a .169 FIP, and an 83.3% LOB rate.

He also pitched better in high leverage situations overall this season, a total .236 wOBA allowed.

The cards were stacked against Choo, Votto, and Bruce in that game, and it showed.

 

[DragonfromTO]

The bolded part is why I can't pin too much on Votto. Liriano was on last night, and on or not, he ate lefties alive this season to the tune of a .151 wOBA against, a 26.8% strikeout rate, a 67.8% groundball rate, a .169 FIP, and an 83.3% LOB rate.

He also pitched better in high leverage situations overall this season, a total .236 wOBA allowed.

The cards were stacked against Choo, Votto, and Bruce in that game, and it showed.

In a sim league game at least one of them wouldn't have started, and possibly all three. But you'll never see that happen in real life with players like that.

 

[HammerDown]

 

[Omar 382]

I LOL'd reading this thread. Yes, Votto is a huge choker based on ONE game and FOUR plate appearances

 

[navamind]

I LOL'd reading this thread. Yes, Votto is a huge choker based on ONE game and FOUR plate appearances

OP was an epic tard. He posted tons of stupid shit on ESPN.

 

[Villain]

Great thread. Solid opinions from solid places. 10/10 feel dumber now, but troubles are simpler for the simple, right?

 

[Omar 382]

Great thread. Solid opinions from solid places. 10/10 feel dumber now, but troubles are simpler for the simple, right?

I'd love to see a real-life GM with the thought processes of this OP and hockey fused into one

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I'd love to see a real-life GM with the thought processes of this OP and hockey fused into one

Ruben Amaro?

 

[Villain]

Ruben Amaro?

I wish he was still a real life GM.

 

[Omar 382]

Ruben Amaro?

If you look at the Pujols thread, I dubbed him Ruben Amaro III