Jimmy Graham is Funny

[DHoey]

Meh, talk is cheap. Let's get to september all ready!!!

 

[Crimsoncrew]

By all means base all of your arguments on a MB quote. Dark, I am a bit surprised you value Bennet's oration so much. You do know he signed a 4 year deal last year and is now whining...

To be fair, it was more than one Bennett quote. He didn't back off his comments when Graham joined the team.

Michael Bennett: I still feel the same way about Jimmy Graham | ProFootballTalk

At the time when Bennett initially criticized Graham for being soft, Sherman got in on it, too.

And, of course, there was this little incident:

Jimmy Graham Gets in Scuffle with Seattle Seahawks Players Before Game | Bleacher Report

And if I were Bennett, I'd be pissed about my contract, too. Richard Sherman begged him to stay for less money than he could have otherwise gotten, ostensibly for the benefit of the team. Bennett did that. Sherman then turned around two months later and became the highest-paid player at his position. Kind of a dick move by Sherman, IMO, convincing another guy to take less "for the team" when you aren't willing to do so yourself. Bennett agreed to his contract, but his leverage now is to hold out or force a trade. The NFL doesn't guarantee contracts, so I don't have a huge problem with a guy holding out under those circumstances. Bennett is arguably (probably?) the most important front-seven piece on that defense, and he's underpaid for what he brings.

 

[HighTopFade]

And if I were Bennett, I'd be pissed about my contract, too. Richard Sherman begged him to stay for less money than he could have otherwise gotten, ostensibly for the benefit of the team. Bennett did that. Sherman then turned around two months later and became the highest-paid player at his position. Kind of a dick move by Sherman, IMO, convincing another guy to take less "for the team" when you aren't willing to do so yourself. Bennett agreed to his contract, but his leverage now is to hold out or force a trade. The NFL doesn't guarantee contracts, so I don't have a huge problem with a guy holding out under those circumstances. Bennett is arguably (probably?) the most important front-seven piece on that defense, and he's underpaid for what he brings.

Damn, that really happened? Sure I want Bennett to play the whole season, but can't blame the guy for holding out.

 

[Uhsplit]

Crimson, your own words said it was the team berating JG.
I'm pretty sure it was only Bennett voicing that.
Embellish much?

 

[Uhsplit]

To be fair, it was more than one Bennett quote. He didn't back off his comments when Graham joined the team.

Michael Bennett: I still feel the same way about Jimmy Graham | ProFootballTalk

At the time when Bennett initially criticized Graham for being soft, Sherman got in on it, too.

And, of course, there was this little incident:

Jimmy Graham Gets in Scuffle with Seattle Seahawks Players Before Game | Bleacher Report

And if I were Bennett, I'd be pissed about my contract, too. Richard Sherman begged him to stay for less money than he could have otherwise gotten, ostensibly for the benefit of the team. Bennett did that. Sherman then turned around two months later and became the highest-paid player at his position. Kind of a dick move by Sherman, IMO, convincing another guy to take less "for the team" when you aren't willing to do so yourself. Bennett agreed to his contract, but his leverage now is to hold out or force a trade. The NFL doesn't guarantee contracts, so I don't have a huge problem with a guy holding out under those circumstances. Bennett is arguably (probably?) the most important front-seven piece on that defense, and he's underpaid for what he brings.

Dang, Seattle needs to have Sherm call Russell's agent.
You must think it uncommon for team mates to try to convince their friends to stay or play on their team. Did you complain when Bradford was asking DeMarco to sign with Philly?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Crimson, your own words said it was the team berating JG.
I'm pretty sure it was only Bennett voicing that.
Embellish much?

Graham got into it with Irvin and Wagner before the 2014 playoff game, seemingly because they were taunting him after they shut him down earlier that season. After the game, Bennett and Sherman ripped him in the press for being soft.

No, it wasn't an official press release from the Seahawks organization. It was a number of players on the team calling their new teammate out for a lack of toughness. If you consider that embellishment, so be it. I was assuming the average reader of my post possessed common sense.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Dang, Seattle needs to have Sherm call Russell's agent.
You must think it uncommon for team mates to try to convince their friends to stay or play on their team. Did you complain when Bradford was asking DeMarco to sign with Philly?

I think it's very common. And I would be pissed off if my teammate convinced me to take less money to stay with the team and then did the exact opposite in his own contract negotiations weeks later. Sherman is effectively making twice what Bennett is over the same time frame, with 2 1/2 times the guaranteed money. I don't know anyone who wouldn't be at least a little irritated with Sherman in that sort of a situation.

You've lost me in terms of the Bradford/Murray comparison. Those guys were not teammates prior to Murray signing with Philly, and I'm not aware that Bradford urged Murray to take less money. Bradford, at least at this point, hasn't signed a huge contract himself, thus restricting his team's available cap space. There's very little similarity between that and the Bennett/Sherman situation.

 

[Uhsplit]

Graham got into it with Irvin and Wagner before the 2014 playoff game, seemingly because they were taunting him after they shut him down earlier that season. After the game, Bennett and Sherman ripped him in the press for being soft.

No, it wasn't an official press release from the Seahawks organization. It was a number of players on the team calling their new teammate out for a lack of toughness. If you consider that embellishment, so be it. I was assuming the average reader of my post possessed common sense.

Hey, we are making headway.
At 1st you say it was the team. Common sense would indicate you did not mean the entire team.
Now you say it was a number of players. To me that means fewer than the team, but still a bunch of players stating so.
Please allow me to use a more accurate description of what took place.
During warmups before a game at The Clink (I think it was a playoff game), JG stepped into Seahawk territory and had words with several Seahawk players. Irvin made a move towards JG before being blocked off by team mates and coaches.
You seem to be making kind of a big deal about it. To me it no not an issue at all. They surely hate themselves now that they are team mates...

If I am correct it was ONLY Bennett who played the "soft" card.
So screw the common sense diatribe. It was 1 Seahawk, not the team, not a handful of players, only 1 that said JG was soft.
So yes, you embellished tons and used zero common sense in the attempt to white wash your earlier comment.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Hey, we are making headway.
At 1st you say it was the team. Common sense would indicate you did not mean the entire team.
Now you say it was a number of players. To me that means fewer than the team, but still a bunch of players stating so.
Please allow me to use a more accurate description of what took place.
During warmups before a game at The Clink (I think it was a playoff game), JG stepped into Seahawk territory and had words with several Seahawk players. Irvin made a move towards JG before being blocked off by team mates and coaches.
You seem to be making kind of a big deal about it. To me it no not an issue at all. They surely hate themselves now that they are team mates...

If I am correct it was ONLY Bennett who played the "soft" card.
So screw the common sense diatribe. It was 1 Seahawk, not the team, not a handful of players, only 1 that said JG was soft.
So yes, you embellished tons and used zero common sense in the attempt to white wash your earlier comment.

It wasn't only Bennett.

Seahawks silence Jimmy Graham, then rip him - New Orleans Saints Blog - ESPN

Both Bennett and cornerback Richard Sherman ripped Graham's inability to block -- which often led the Saints to take Graham off the field when they wanted to run the ball.

My use of the team clearly did not apply to every player, or even most players, on the team. Again, my use of "the team" was never meant to imply more than a few players on the team, and that should have been obvious to any NFL fan. It is fairly rare for a player to rip another player in this way - i.e., calling him soft. As such, it stands out. It is even rarer for the player who did the ripping to double down on it when those guys are teammates. Though Bennett has less of a filter than some other players.

Look, Uhsplit, you seem to be taking this very personally. I'm just chuckling at a few funny things going on with the Hawks this offseason. They're still the class of the division, and probably the league, and there's a good chance that picking up Graham helps them to get back to the SB. There's really no reason for you to be so defensive. Graham's statements about his blocking are objectively comical, and at least two Seahawks defenders agree.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

By all means base all of your arguments on a MB quote. Dark, I am a bit surprised you value Bennet's oration so much. You do know he signed a 4 year deal last year and is now whining...

By the way, since we're talking about embellishment and the like, what possible bearing could Bennett's current whining/potential holdout have on the validity of his statements from January 2014? Mentioning that in the context of this discussion is a red herring.

 

[Uhsplit]

It wasn't only Bennett.

Seahawks silence Jimmy Graham, then rip him - New Orleans Saints Blog - ESPN

Both Bennett and cornerback Richard Sherman ripped Graham's inability to block -- which often led the Saints to take Graham off the field when they wanted to run the ball.

My use of the team clearly did not apply to every player, or even most players, on the team. Again, my use of "the team" was never meant to imply more than a few players on the team, and that should have been obvious to any NFL fan. It is fairly rare for a player to rip another player in this way - i.e., calling him soft. As such, it stands out. It is even rarer for the player who did the ripping to double down on it when those guys are teammates. Though Bennett has less of a filter than some other players.

Look, Uhsplit, you seem to be taking this very personally. I'm just chuckling at a few funny things going on with the Hawks this offseason. They're still the class of the division, and probably the league, and there's a good chance that picking up Graham helps them to get back to the SB. There's really no reason for you to be so defensive. Graham's statements about his blocking are objectively comical, and at least two Seahawks defenders agree.

I don't think that is the case.
My gripe towards you is if someone who hasn't heard of any of this before you would believbe a large group of Seahawk players said JG is soft. It was only one player, the same player who signed a contract last year and is now whining. I have read nothing about Sherm calling JG soft. If he did that means 2 Seahawk players said that. I still say it is one player.

No need for you to believe this but I watch and read everything Seahawks and have done so for decades. The culture and competition on Seattle's team will encourage JG to give his best and let's revisit this blocking argument in September. I predict he will be an effective blocker and you say he will not be an effective blocker.
Fair enough?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I don't think that is the case.
My gripe towards you is if someone who hasn't heard of any of this before you would believbe a large group of Seahawk players said JG is soft. It was only one player, the same player who signed a contract last year and is now whining. I have read nothing about Sherm calling JG soft. If he did that means 2 Seahawk players said that. I still say it is one player.

No need for you to believe this but I watch and read everything Seahawks and have done so for decades. The culture and competition on Seattle's team will encourage JG to give his best and let's revisit this blocking argument in September. I predict he will be an effective blocker and you say he will not be an effective blocker.
Fair enough?

I just posted something about Sherm calling out Graham for his poor blocking. It's not technically calling him "soft," but it's not far from it. Again, Bennett ripped Graham in a very public and very offensive manner. At least one other prominent player on the team agreed with him. It's funny, to some, that Graham is now playing on that team. As said, you're taking this - and yourself - WAY too seriously.

And "effective blocker" is an awfully vague term. I'm confident he will not be among the top-20 blocking TEs in the league next year, though.

 

[Uhsplit]

I just posted something about Sherm calling out Graham for his poor blocking. It's not technically calling him "soft," but it's not far from it. Again, Bennett ripped Graham in a very public and very offensive manner. At least one other prominent player on the team agreed with him. It's funny, to some, that Graham is now playing on that team. As said, you're taking this - and yourself - WAY too seriously.

And "effective blocker" is an awfully vague term. I'm confident he will not be among the top-20 blocking TEs in the league next year, though.

I suppose it must look that way to you and others that view this thread.
I am just calling you out for saying the team said it instead of only Michael Bennett said it. That is one man's opinion versus a group of team mates voicing it in agreement.
I agree that MB did say it. I would be foolish and quickly proven wrong if I were to say Bennett is innocent of those words.

Suppose Aldon Smith stated publicly that Tomsula is a weak coach and wont make it as an NFL HC and someone says "The 9ers are saying Tomsula is weak and won't make it as an NFL HC." You cant see the difference in that?
In one situation the person looks bad. In the other, the team looks bad.
I'll drop it.

Let's get the season started.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I suppose it must look that way to you and others that view this thread.
I am just calling you out for saying the team said it instead of only Michael Bennett said it. That is one man's opinion versus a group of team mates voicing it in agreement.
I agree that MB did say it. I would be foolish and quickly proven wrong if I were to say Bennett is innocent of those words.

Suppose Aldon Smith stated publicly that Tomsula is a weak coach and wont make it as an NFL HC and someone says "The 9ers are saying Tomsula is weak and won't make it as an NFL HC." You cant see the difference in that?
In one situation the person looks bad. In the other, the team looks bad.
I'll drop it.

Let's get the season started.

We're really beating a dead horse here, but what the hell, it's the slowest part of the offseason.

I feel compelled to point out I used the word "team," but then immediately thereafter used the pronoun "they," indicating that I was referring to players on that team and not the organization. Again, that should be obvious as organizations rarely issue press releases insulting anyone, much less active players on other teams.

And a number of players have said things about Graham, things that go beyond normal trash-talking. Bennett and Sherman both overtly questioned Graham's toughness, calling him overrated, soft, and questioning his blocking (or lack thereof). Others, like Irvin, recounted and laughed about the pre-game altercation. Irvin went on to indicate that wasn't over that when the Hawks traded for Graham:

Seahawks Bruce Irvin calls out new teammate Jimmy Graham | For The Win


I know, I know. Irvin is also unhappy with his contract situation, so we probably shouldn't consider his statements, either. Now, it is entirely possible Irvin was just making a humorous comment, but it makes the situation amusing nonetheless.

Bobby Wagner got in on it, too:

Seattle Seahawks LB Bobby Wagner Calling Other Teams Scared Right On the Money - RantSports

So we've got four of eleven defensive starters who have publicly derided Jimmy Graham in some way. Yes, it's not "the team," but it's also more than just Michael Bennett singling out Graham. And the Seahawks' players have piled on Graham specifically more than other players, and certainly more than any other teams have done, so far as I am aware.

To some extent, this is who the Hawks are. The defense is comprised of a bunch of loudmouth blowhards, but they back it up on the field, so unless they get way out of hand - which they do at times - I'm not going to call them out for it. But it does make for potentially awkward and funny situations at times. It would be amusing if Crabtree went to Seattle, for instance, after what Sherman said following the NFCCG. In similar fashion, the Lakers just drafted a guy who tweeted #rapist when referring to Kobe a couple years ago. That is an awkward situation that third-party observers may find amusing.

As far as the Tomsula/Aldon analogy, it's not a good one. First off, it would legitimately be one guy as opposed to at least four guys who have called out Graham in some fashion. Second, Tomsula has been with the team longer than Aldon has. Now, let's say the Niners had humiliated Denver at some point, and Aldon had said, "Adam Gase is a terrible, unimaginative, useless coach who just piggybacks on Peyton Manning's greatness." And let's say Willis and Bowman echoed those comments. Then let's say the Niners had hired Gase as their HC. Now that would be a funny/awkward situation. And I think we would see people a number of people saying that Gase was going to a team that slammed him in that situation.