It's never too early for Butch Hobson

[Tubbs1518]

Well maybe Johnson wouldn't have sucked here, but was he worth the 23 million in guaranteed money that he received? Would he have gotten us to the second round of the playoffs? Questionable at best. Like the article notes, he played hurt. One more injured player performing below expectations would not have made this a better team.

Yes he was absolutely worth the money. When he left the best part of our team turned into the worst in the league. He was the best defensive player on a great defensive line. He absolutely would have been worth it here.

 

[cincygrad]

Well maybe Johnson wouldn't have sucked here, but was he worth the 23 million in guaranteed money that he received? Would he have gotten us to the second round of the playoffs? Questionable at best. Like the article notes, he played hurt. One more injured player performing below expectations would not have made this a better team.

This is true, but it's also indicative of this team's attitude. Why sign another d-lineman when we already cut two big checks? Why sign depth along the line when we already have 5 starters? We didn't try to compete for J-Joe because we had Leon -- And then we spent two high draft picks because of it. I'm all for letting our old guys go - For example, I'm a big fan of Leon but they need to let him walk now. But now, when we're still getting value out of them and not when we have the cap space. Aside from Hobs musings, everyone writes that the Bengals have the cap space. They just don't use it.

 

[bengaldoug]

This is true, but it's also indicative of this team's attitude. Why sign another d-lineman when we already cut two big checks? Why sign depth along the line when we already have 5 starters? We didn't try to compete for J-Joe because we had Leon -- And then we spent two high draft picks because of it. I'm all for letting our old guys go - For example, I'm a big fan of Leon but they need to let him walk now. But now, when we're still getting value out of them and not when we have the cap space. Aside from Hobs musings, everyone writes that the Bengals have the cap space. They just don't use it.

You're preaching to the choir, but by all means, preach on........

 

[UDFlyers90]

The thing that really drives me crazy about Hobspin articles is that they are certainly propaganda, but are clearly based in truth. As fans we don't want to accept excuses for yet another playoff failure. However, reasonable minds could come to the conclusion that due to this team being completely fucked by injuries a 10 win season was fairly remarkable, especially given the fact they played a first place schedule. And there is reason for optimism given the hopeful return to health of key players. I know no one wants hear that that, but I have been through as many shitty years with this team as anyone here and I am capable of being objective. For anyone that wants to call me a bandwagon doosh bag, answer this question: would any of the teams in the Divisional round made it this far with the extent of injuries suffered by the Bengals?

 

[Tubbs1518]

The thing that really drives me crazy about Hobspin articles is that they are certainly propaganda, but are clearly based in truth. As fans we don't want to accept excuses for yet another playoff failure. However, reasonable minds could come to the conclusion that due to this team being completely fucked by injuries a 10 win season was fairly remarkable, especially given the fact they played a first place schedule. And there is reason for optimism given the hopeful return to health of key players. I know no one wants hear that that, but I have been through as many shitty years with this team as anyone here and I am capable of being objective. For anyone that wants to call me a bandwagon doosh bag, answer this question: would any of the teams in the Divisional round made it this far with the extent of injuries suffered by the Bengals?

Yeah I think they would and honestly I think they would have been Indy at home. Pittsburgh and Baltimore are just better put together teams and their quarterbacks can carry their teams more. People give Flacco hell, but in the playoffs he is a damn good QB.

 

[UDFlyers90]

This is true, but it's also indicative of this team's attitude. Why sign another d-lineman when we already cut two big checks? Why sign depth along the line when we already have 5 starters? We didn't try to compete for J-Joe because we had Leon -- And then we spent two high draft picks because of it. I'm all for letting our old guys go - For example, I'm a big fan of Leon but they need to let him walk now. But now, when we're still getting value out of them and not when we have the cap space. Aside from Hobs musings, everyone writes that the Bengals have the cap space. They just don't use it.

I completely agree with this. In my opinion, they should have used free agency to go after a middle tier free agent to fill some of the Johnson void. They decided to sit pat and hope their projects and low round draft picks panned out. Fail!

 

[UDFlyers90]

Yeah I think they would and honestly I think they would have been Indy at home. Pittsburgh and Baltimore are just better put together teams and their quarterbacks can carry their teams more. People give Flacco hell, but in the playoffs he is a damn good QB.

However, you saw what happened to Pitt when Bell went down. And I really don't think Baltimore has been hit anywhere near as hard by injuries to starters. Further, Baltimore scraped into the playoffs and beat a depleted Pittsburgh team.

 

[Tubbs1518]

However, you saw what happened to Pitt when Bell went down. And I really don't think Baltimore has been hit anywhere near as hard by injuries to starters. Further, Baltimore scraped into the playoffs and beat a depleted Pittsburgh team.

Baltimore wasn't hit as hard, but they have a quarterback who can carry them in the playoffs. Lets not get carried away with injuries on defense, we were really only missing 1 guy. You take 1 guy off that Baltimore defense and it is still a damn good defense. Even if you take away Flaccos weapons, I have no doubt he would have done enough to beat Indy, whose defense isn't very good. Lets not act like our team was just out talented by Indy. It wasn't. They reason they beat us is 1 person. Andrew Luck. Nothing else. When you have a good quarterback you can win games. We don't. We can't.

 

[Tubbs1518]

As for Pitt, Baltimore is a better team than Indy. I have no doubt that Pitt would have played much better against a much worse defense that the Colts had.

 

[UDFlyers90]

Baltimore wasn't hit as hard, but they have a quarterback who can carry them in the playoffs. Lets not get carried away with injuries on defense, we were really only missing 1 guy. You take 1 guy off that Baltimore defense and it is still a damn good defense. Even if you take away Flaccos weapons, I have no doubt he would have done enough to beat Indy, whose defense isn't very good. Lets not act like our team was just out talented by Indy. It wasn't. They reason they beat us is 1 person. Andrew Luck. Nothing else. When you have a good quarterback you can win games. We don't. We can't.

Can't say I disagree with you. Flacco's post-season record speaks for itself. While I despise the Ravens, I hope they put up a fight on Saturday. I still have a hard time believing that any quarterback could have beaten Indy with the receiver options available to the Bengals. JMHO.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Can't say I disagree with you. Flacco's post-season record speaks for itself. While I despise the Ravens, I hope they put up a fight on Saturday. I still have a hard time believing that any quarterback could have beaten Indy with the receiver options available to the Bengals. JMHO.

Brady turns no names into stars every year. Let's not act like it can't happen. It just can't happen with our QB.

 

[cincygrad]

The thing that really drives me crazy about Hobspin articles is that they are certainly propaganda, but are clearly based in truth. As fans we don't want to accept excuses for yet another playoff failure. However, reasonable minds could come to the conclusion that due to this team being completely fucked by injuries a 10 win season was fairly remarkable, especially given the fact they played a first place schedule. And there is reason for optimism given the hopeful return to health of key players. I know no one wants hear that that, but I have been through as many shitty years with this team as anyone here and I am capable of being objective. For anyone that wants to call me a bandwagon doosh bag, answer this question: would any of the teams in the Divisional round made it this far with the extent of injuries suffered by the Bengals?

Baltimore's secondary was decimated by injuries. Their secondary was comically bad. They played a playoff game without their left tackle and they already weren't known for their offensive line. They lost their running back before the season and had to deal with the medial follow out that came with it. They played the stretch run without one of the best defensive tackles in the league.

Our injuries are a convenient excuse, but that's all they really are..... Plenty of successful teams deal with injuries.

 

[cincygrad]

Oh, and how could I forget Dennis Pitta!!!!

 

[mrschaney]

I have to agree 100% with Butch Hobson!

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Yes he was absolutely worth the money. When he left the best part of our team turned into the worst in the league. He was the best defensive player on a great defensive line. He absolutely would have been worth it here.

He had 3.5 sacks in 2013. I don't know where you get your shit from. PFF may have given him decent + ratings for the year, but 3.5 sacks and 43.75 million? I am sorry, to me he was not worth the contract.

I believe he would have played better here, and our defensive line would have been a little better. But to lock two average DE's in at 40+ million is just asking for trouble.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Johnson a lot while he was here, and I was sad to see him go, but I understand the economics of it, because he was not worth 40+ million. Dunlap played on a damn horrible DL this year, with no help from anyone it looked like, and he still had at least 8.5 sacks. He is an average DE too.

Anyways, go ahead and bash for whatever you guys want.

I don't think Johnson made a difference, this year it was Dalton sucking and injuries. Our DL certainly hurt, and yes, I agree, Johnson would have been better than what we had, but not worth the contract he was given. That is my opinion.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

This is true, but it's also indicative of this team's attitude. Why sign another d-lineman when we already cut two big checks? Why sign depth along the line when we already have 5 starters? We didn't try to compete for J-Joe because we had Leon -- And then we spent two high draft picks because of it. I'm all for letting our old guys go - For example, I'm a big fan of Leon but they need to let him walk now. But now, when we're still getting value out of them and not when we have the cap space. Aside from Hobs musings, everyone writes that the Bengals have the cap space. They just don't use it.

No they don't. They need to let Newman walk, and keep Hall where he is for now as the slot CB. At least for one more year until they find out what kind of starters Kirkpatrick and Dennard are going to be.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Brady turns no names into stars every year. Let's not act like it can't happen. It just can't happen with our QB.

Brady plays like crap without Gronk.

 

[Tubbs1518]

He had 3.5 sacks in 2013. I don't know where you get your shit from. PFF may have given him decent + ratings for the year, but 3.5 sacks and 43.75 million? I am sorry, to me he was not worth the contract.

I believe he would have played better here, and our defensive line would have been a little better. But to lock two average DE's in at 40+ million is just asking for trouble.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Johnson a lot while he was here, and I was sad to see him go, but I understand the economics of it, because he was not worth 40+ million. Dunlap played on a damn horrible DL this year, with no help from anyone it looked like, and he still had at least 8.5 sacks. He is an average DE too.

Anyways, go ahead and bash for whatever you guys want.

I don't think Johnson made a difference, this year it was Dalton sucking and injuries. Our DL certainly hurt, and yes, I agree, Johnson would have been better than what we had, but not worth the contract he was given. That is my opinion.

Sacks are not a good indicator of pass rush ability. Ask Khalil Mack and the Raiders. Johnson would have helped both the run and the pass. He would have kept Dunlap from getting doubled everytime. He would have kept Gilberry in his natural role. He would have given us more depth. Neither Dunlap nor Johnson are average. Looking at plain numbers is moronic.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Brady plays like crap without Gronk.

Thats a false statement. He isn't as good, but he doesn't play like crap. He still has a 2:1 TD:INT ration, throws for about 240 a game and completes about 60% of his passes.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Sacks are not a good indicator of pass rush ability. Ask Khalil Mack and the Raiders. Johnson would have helped both the run and the pass. He would have kept Dunlap from getting doubled everytime. He would have kept Gilberry in his natural role. He would have given us more depth. Neither Dunlap nor Johnson are average. Looking at plain numbers is moronic.

Looking at just numbers is moronic, but I really wasn't just looking at sacks. I saw Johnson play and he was good half the time, and non-existent the other half. He and Dunlap are average DE's, at least in my opinion. Both of them get taken out of big games when needed the most, more Johnson than Dunlap. I think we made the right decision on which 40 million dollar average DE to keep.